You're Going for a Ride - A Mario Chain Grab Info. Thread

[Hinichii.ez.™]

ahoy

So, as you all know, mario can chain grab multiple characters in cast. Just to step back for a moment, for those who ether don't know or are unaware of what chain grabs are, they are series of grabs and throws that the victim cannot escape. Generally, a playet throws the opponent a specific direction, chases the opponent's directional influence, and grabs the opponent while they are still in midair and before they can tech. Now back to what I was talking about...But, what a lot of you don't know, is the percents they begin and end, let alone when you can convert those throws to kills. I am making this thread to spread the knowledge, so not just I, but the wholemario community can become more proficient with their grab game and conversions. As of now, I don't have all the information to complete this thread, so I need your help on finishing this. I'll start by posting all the characters that can be chain grab and we can go from there.

[collapse=NOTE] this Information is incomplete as of 05/23/2014 when a character is complete I will change the color of the font fo[/collapse]
Up throw chain grab
Falco, Wolf, Fox --

Spoiler

Starts at 0 goes to 56
Kill threshold:
Kill options: fair --

Captain Falcon

Spoiler

Starts at 0 ends 45-50
Kill threshold: 8xish
Kill options: uair into fsmash, fair, nair

Down Throw Chain Grab

Lucas

Spoiler

starts at 0 goes to 45
Kill threshold:
Kill options:

Bowser
DDD
Squritle
Link
Wario
MK

Spoiler

starts at 0 ends at 60
Kill threshold
Kill options: Fsmash, fair

Roy
Charizard
DK
ZSS
Sheik
Lucario
Snake
Sonic
Diddy

Spoiler

Starts at 0 goes to 66
Kill threshold:
Kill options:

I'm sure there is more, I just don't remember them. This is a work in progress, so let's get to work!

 

[sassafrass]

Excellent thread idea. I've been watching videos on near perfect chain grabs and have been wondering when it was possible.

Goodness though, after seeing the spacies information, I really have to add up throwing in my game... I barely do it, as I do every other direction more. I guess I've always avoided it because I just like the other directions more. Silly me.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Added a few names and data. I think these are all the characters that can be CG.

 

[KinGly]

this looks good, I didn't know that mario could chain grab to such high percents

 

[GeZ]

I found this threads theme song:

 

[Yams Everywhere]

How do you know if the character you are chain grabbing is DI-ing outward or inward? The DI seems hard to follow at lower percents.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

How do you know if the character you are chain grabbing is DI-ing outward or inward? The DI seems hard to follow at lower percents.

I just pay close attention to them. Some are harder to react to, and some at low % are inescapable; regardless of Di. For example, uthrow fox at 0. Just grab like right after you toss him up. It's like that till the 2nd or 3rd throw If I remember correctly.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

Thanks. I'll make sure to practice these chain grabs to practice tracing their DI.

 

[cod3kill]

I don't know if it's guaranteed, but on spacies I can usually chaingrab a couple of times with a down throw to jab to regrab, it racks up a lot of easy percent.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

I don't know if it's guaranteed, but on spacies I can usually chaingrab a couple of times with a down throw to jab to regrab, it racks up a lot of easy percent.

Your opponent is most likely not teching your throw, and you perform a jab reset to get your opponent in the standing position to re grab them. If your opponent techs the throw, you shouldn't be able to do that.

 

[cod3kill]

Your opponent is most likely not teching your throw, and you perform a jab reset to get your opponent in the standing position to re grab them. If your opponent techs the throw, you shouldn't be able to do that.

Nah, It's not really a jab reset because you do it before they hit the ground and before they would be able to tech, you jab them while they are falling. It sort of just immediately takes them out of their falling animation and stalls them a bit and lets you regrab. I don't know if they would be able to act before you grab though, so thats the thing. I don't think they would be though because it just puts them into hitlag from jab, and jab to grab is definitely a thing. I was able to do it against a very good player, and it only works on spacies as far as I can tell because after the down throw and jab they are still in grab range. I would post a video on it if I had the means but unfortunately I don't. Just give it a shot on your own and you might be able to get it to work. Sorry If I do a poor job of explaining it.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

It's not a chain grab and it's very easy to escape.

 

[cod3kill]

It's not a chain grab and it's very easy to escape.

Alright, nice to know, thanks.

 

[JOE!]

You guys have a CG on top of Janky fireballs?

 

[GeZ]

You guys have a CG on top of Janky fireballs?

And one of the only moves (if not the only) that does damage through shield.
And good movement.
And dat stache.
We da bes.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Top tier facial hair

 

[S.O.S.]

have these cgs and % changed in 3.2? I can't seem to make it work on several characters, namely dedede mk wario etc

 

[S.O.S.]

also zss seems to be able to escape with good di around 50%

 

[thesage]

Can Ness be cg'd by Mario?

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

What characters can't be CG'd? Marth, himself, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Ike, Ivy, TLink, Ganon, Zelda, ICs, Mewtwo, Pikachu, Jiggs, Samus, Pit, Kirby, Olimar, Rob, and G&W? Did I miss any?

Also you put Roy on the list twice, was one supposed to be Rob?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I need to recheck Tlink and pika.
I don't think rob can be, I could check tho.

 

[RahZ]

Tlink can be CG'd was playing my friend yesterday and confirmed it to mid 50's

 

[Chesstiger2612]

MK can get out from 39% relieably (DI up+ slightly in), before that he has to mixup to mess Mario up or MK needs to platform tech. If MK chooses to get out with an air dodge, you can choose between different moves if you react in time, if he jumps out you can up-air, but MK can then DI out (DI ing away + slightly down) good enough to not get hit further. To maximize percents, up-air before MK can jump out (less height, you will only need a sh) and follow up with more aerials depending on DI.

 

[gmBottles]

I'm pretty sure that against spacies he can cg with his down throw to like 100% right after using the up throw cg, but I could definitely be wrong.

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

I'm pretty sure that against spacies he can cg with his down throw to like 100% right after using the up throw cg, but I could definitely be wrong.

Did anyone ever find out if this is true? I would assume if it is we would see a lot of people using it

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Did anyone ever find out if this is true? I would assume if it is we would see a lot of people using it

Even if it was, there is no way you could do that off 1 setup. The spacey could just Di away or onto a platform. It could be useful, if it works, but when the uthrow cg is over, the spacey is just a few solid hits from death anyway.

 

[Jonyc128]

Oh wow did not know Mario had chain grabs on so many characters
*takes notes*

 

[gmBottles]

I'm pretty sure that against spacies he can cg with his down throw to like 100% right after using the up throw cg, but I could definitely be wrong.

I made this post before I learned about DI and such, you can probably disregard it. :/

 

[GSM_Dren]

Thank you Hinichii.ez.™ I'll be sure to keep these in mind.

 

[DMG]

Does this include differences between neutral/no DI, and left/right DI? Chaingrab %'s change based on how far people DI: some of these numbers might need to be higher or lower by a decent amount based on that.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Does this include differences between neutral/no DI, and left/right DI? Chaingrab %'s change based on how far people DI: some of these numbers might need to be higher or lower by a decent amount based on that.

From what I tested, the Di doesn't matter. Unless ofc they land on a platform or off stage. With the new dthrow values, I would have to go back on these. I could start lookin at this stuff tomorrow-ish

 

[DMG]

DI does matter for these CG's though. It's an established fact that for 90 degree vertical throws, doing neutral/no DI allows you to get out the soonest once a CG is established. That's why in Melee you'll sometimes see Spacies use no DI against Marth's Uthrow past 20-30%? because they can shine out with good timing if all you go for is the regrab around those %'s (I believe it's sooner for Fox, and later for Falco).

DI left or right allows the CG to last longer, because the person doesn't fly up as high. No DI/Neutral DI has the absolute highest point of flight path, and going left or right shifts that point kind of like the top of a circle curving down on both sides. You might go 80% of the "regular" height if you pick left or right, and because of that the CG will technically go on for longer if you keep choosing that over neutral DI.

That's not to say that Neutral DI is always the best, since it would be very predictable and leads into the easiest hits, but the DI differences DO impact Mario CG's by a margin worth noting.

 

[Glish]

I have two questions about this list and a thank you.

1. Is all of the data updated to 3.5? Do all of these CGs still exist in 3.5?

2. What does kill threshold mean? The only one I see filled out is 8x-ish for Cpt Falcon. What does that mean?

Thanks so much for compiling this! If it is not up to date, I'd love to test it out sometime and try and help.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I have two questions about this list and a thank you.

1. Is all of the data updated to 3.5? Do all of these CGs still exist in 3.5?

2. What does kill threshold mean? The only one I see filled out is 8x-ish for Cpt Falcon. What does that mean?

Thanks so much for compiling this! If it is not up to date, I'd love to test it out sometime and try and help.

Outdated.
I put threshold to show when you could go straight from the grab to a kill move.
You're welcome to add information. I haven't been following up with this after 3.5 dropped.

 

[Glish]

Outdated.
I put threshold to show when you could go straight from the grab to a kill move.
You're welcome to add information. I haven't been following up with this after 3.5 dropped.

So does the 8x for Falcon mean that from 0%, after I CG him 8 times I can kill him?

Also, did you test with someone entering different DI? Or did you test in training mode? Or CPU?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

So does the 8x for Falcon mean that from 0%, after I CG him 8 times I can kill him?

Also, did you test with someone entering different DI? Or did you test in training mode? Or CPU?

80ish % you could uthrow> uair> fsmash(cg doesnt go that high)
Had people do different Di while I grabbed. Usually I said, try to get out

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

Do these CGs only cover just the grab? or does it cover other opportunities that stem from cg. for instance with dk, cg shenanigans can be extended to stupid percents(or even at 60) with good reads and well placed moves such as u-air, d-tilt,jabs.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Just grabs.

 

[eskimoparade]

the doc cg for spacies was to uthrow to mid percents, then dribble them to 100 or so with dthrow before dunking them/fsmash, but thats with docs fsmash where accuracy didnt matter, so just get to 120 or so and fair