Your Stance on Rage

[Furret24]

I'm sure we all know what "Rage" is by now.

After seeing some people argue about it in some other threads, I thought it would be best to turn it into a thread on it's own.

I personally don't really have a stance on it, coming from a guy who generally uses characters that have a weight of 80 or lower.

 

[E-Mann]

Eh. I'm mixed. On one hand, it gives heavier characters an advantage over lightweight and small characters like Pikachu or Peach (yes, I consider her to be fairly small, especially compared to others like Palutena or Zelda), but on the other hand it gives scrubs a significant chance at winning a match.

 

[Rinku リンク]

It tends to favor heavier characters and is ridiculously strong on some characters like

But honestly I find it fair since heavier characters tend to get combo'd and juggled easily so it gives them a chance to retaliate without having to play the "catch up" game too much.

In general though, it gives every character a chance to make a comeback when behind which opens up for more hyped plays and entertainment.

 

[Raijinken]

I love it. Useful balance mechanic towards heavies, and a nice balance of get-ahead and comeback strength.

on the other hand it gives scrubs a significant chance at winning a match.

This requires you, the player with the lead in percent if nothing else, to be playing risky enough for a player to land a relevant killing blow, probably raw because fewer moves will combo with rage. If they're close enough in stock and percentage to have rage as a relevant contributor to taking your last stock, I hardly feel the skill gap warrants you calling them a scrub. While, if you had the stock lead and they were poor enough at finishing you off to give you rage, then you would have the benefit of rage to destroy them that much quicker.

It tends to favor heavier characters and is ridiculously strong on some characters like

But honestly I find it fair since heavier characters tend to get combo'd and juggled easily so it gives them a chance to retaliate without having to play the "catch up" game too much.

In general though, it gives every character a chance to make a comeback when behind which opens up for more hyped plays and entertainment.

There is nothing I like more as a Roy player than an opponent who can't finish me off. Having a half-moveset of kill moves is amazing.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

I don't play competitively, so I don't mind it. I'm ok with elements that can turn the tide of battle, especially if it gets too one-sided, as long as it doesn't make the game a too chaotic mess.

 

[Alph Aran]

I "hate" it. I tend to rack up damage a lot as / and I'm not too good at finishing off opponents before they KO me when I'm at somewhere under 90%. There should be an option to play in modes without Rage.

 

[Raijinken]

I "hate" it. I tend to rack up damage a lot as / and I'm not too good at finishing off opponents before they KO me when I'm at somewhere under 90%. There should be an option to play in modes without Rage.

Shouldn't this just be considered a growth opportunity? It's a motivator for you to learn to finish off your opponent (I'm no Olalph player but I hear blue uthrow or several smashes work pretty well), before they take a comeback kill with rage.

 

[Reila]

I don't mind it.

 

[kendikong]

Its a bit unbalanced in a 2 stock match and makes the first person to kill have tremendous advantage, often leading to 2 stocks

Heavies in 4 player match gets huge benefit from rage. As a charizard main, I often manage to take the first stocks, and then survive to 200%, and get 2 more kills easily before my stock is lost

 

[McDizzle!]

Its a bit unbalanced in a 2 stock match and makes the first person to kill have tremendous advantage, often leading to 2 stocks

Heavies in 4 player match gets huge benefit from rage. As a charizard main, I often manage to take the first stocks, and then survive to 200%, and get 2 more kills easily before my stock is lost

The first person to kill doesn't really have a tremendous advantage, as they can get killed very easily if they already have a lot of damage racked up on them. Also, heavy characters benefitting from rage is perfectly fine, since they are easily comboed.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I like it for the sake that it makes match-ups against Sheik bearable.

Seriously, though, I think it's a nice mechanic. It gives the heavyweight characters a reason to be played, and it prevents players from getting too far ahead.

 

[eviljoeybonkers]

I like it because it gives a boost to the heavyweights. They are easy to juggle, so why not give them Rage to compensate?

 

[CCTANK93]

I've honestly never really paid too much attention to it. It's an ok mechanic I guess and it gives the person who is losing a chance to at least stay in the match a little longer.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

It's a good idea, but can be too rubberbanding at times. Since rage was designed to help heavies catch up and finish kills early, it would've went over better if rage only started around 100% and built up to 150% so that heavies almost always benefit while lighter characters don't benefit as much.

 

[Toon612Link]

Unlike mario kart its a rubber banding system players can take advantage of.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I can't stand it. Dying at 50% to an uncharged smash attack when your opponent is at 130% is just borderline unfair. On characters like Ganondorf and Charizard, it turns into Mario Kart Wii levels of rubberbanding. It's really a dumb mechanic if you ask me, coming from a guy who uses Bowser Jr. and used to use Charizard. As if Lucario wasn't already obnoxious enough in this game...

 

[Evello]

I can't stand it. Dying at 50% to an uncharged smash attack when your opponent is at 130% is just borderline unfair. On characters like Ganondorf and Charizard, it turns into Mario Kart Wii levels of rubberbanding. It's really a dumb mechanic if you ask me, coming from a guy who uses Bowser Jr. and used to use Charizard. As if Lucario wasn't already obnoxious enough in this game...

It's only rubber banding if it was a fair fight to begin with. In 1v1's, heavies are almost always at a significant disadvantage, so one could argue that rage is just leveling the playing field. In free-for-alls it's a little questionable, since heavies have a huge advantage, but I don't quite understand the competitive community's distaste for it.

And, honestly, I see rage strengthening leads more often than causing comebacks. If you take your opponent's first stock while at >100%, you're now dishing out huge damage until your opponent can kill you. It's kind of like switching into Shulk's buster art when you get a stock lead.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I love it. Useful balance mechanic towards heavies, and a nice balance of get-ahead and comeback strength.



This requires you, the player with the lead in percent if nothing else, to be playing risky enough for a player to land a relevant killing blow, probably raw because fewer moves will combo with rage. If they're close enough in stock and percentage to have rage as a relevant contributor to taking your last stock, I hardly feel the skill gap warrants you calling them a scrub. While, if you had the stock lead and they were poor enough at finishing you off to give you rage, then you would have the benefit of rage to destroy them that much quicker.


There is nothing I like more as a Roy player than an opponent who can't finish me off. Having a half-moveset of kill moves is amazing.

It's more that when you've survived at around 100% after taking the foe's stock, your combo moves don't work as well as they normally would against a 0% opponent.

Personally, I don't have an inherent problem with the idea of rage. What I dislike is that the rage multiplier is applied to the full knockback of the attack. This results in stupid amounts of knockback from attacks hitting heavy characters who are at low damage percentages. In my opinion, rage should be calculated after knockback growth in the formula, before base knockback is added, and attacks that use weight knockback would ignore it completely. The rage multiplier would have to be increased to compensate for this, of course. Overall, the result would be that combo moves would be mostly unaffected by rage at low percents, while kill moves would still benefit as intended and start KOing earlier.

It's only rubber banding if it was a fair fight to begin with. In 1v1's, heavies are almost always at a significant disadvantage, so one could argue that rage is just leveling the playing field. In free-for-alls it's a little questionable, since heavies have a huge advantage, but I don't quite understand the competitive community's distaste for it.

And, honestly, I see rage strengthening leads more often than causing comebacks. If you take your opponent's first stock while at >100%, you're now dishing out huge damage until your opponent can kill you. It's kind of like switching into Shulk's buster art when you get a stock lead.

Actually, rage only increases knockback dealt and has no direct effect on damage output. That means that for much of the cast it effectively decreases overall damage output since it can stop combos from working.

 

[Raijinken]

It's more that when you've survived at around 100% after taking the foe's stock, your combo moves don't work as well as they normally would against a 0% opponent.

Personally, I don't have an inherent problem with the idea of rage. What I dislike is that the rage multiplier is applied to the full knockback of the attack. This results in stupid amounts of knockback from attacks hitting heavy characters who are at low damage percentages. In my opinion, rage should be calculated after knockback growth in the formula, before base knockback is added, and attacks that use weight knockback would ignore it completely. The rage multiplier would have to be increased to compensate for this, of course. Overall, the result would be that combo moves would be mostly unaffected by rage at low percents, while kill moves would still benefit as intended and start KOing earlier.

My only issue with this is how it then enables the characters with combo games (decidedly not the heavies) to reap its benefits without its current drawbacks. Rage currently makes it harder (though whether hard enough or not is up to interpretation for characters like Sheik) to continue comboing a high-damage opponent, due to the higher knockback. With that being negated, a rage comboer becomes an even more absurd force, being able to secure even earlier kills.

From a total parity stance it makes some sense, but seeing as Rage seems largely intended to help heavies actually get a kill from their hits, I personally don't feel like it should be reduced for light hits.

I do agree with removing it for weight-based knockback.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

My only issue with this is how it then enables the characters with combo games (decidedly not the heavies) to reap its benefits without its current drawbacks. Rage currently makes it harder (though whether hard enough or not is up to interpretation for characters like Sheik) to continue comboing a high-damage opponent, due to the higher knockback. With that being negated, a rage comboer becomes an even more absurd force, being able to secure even earlier kills.

From a total parity stance it makes some sense, but seeing as Rage seems largely intended to help heavies actually get a kill from their hits, I personally don't feel like it should be reduced for light hits.

I do agree with removing it for weight-based knockback.

Reducing it for light hits has the advantage of preventing stuff like that absolutely stupid full-rage Luma UTilt KO on a 0% Bowser who's charging a Smash Attack. Rage currently makes the foe's weight a non-issue in that kind of scenario by multiplying the entire force of the attack including the base knockback, sometimes making moves that are intended to send the foe to the other side of the area as a "get away from me" option into stupidly low-percent kills. For reference, that Luma UTilt KO on a 0% Bowser works on just about a 0% anyone (even some hypothetical super-heavyweight DLC character who takes the #1 spot away from Bowser), since the effect of weight on such a low-damage hit with middling knockback growth at such a low percent is negligible.
Amount of scaled knockback caused to Bowser (128 weight) before Rage:
12.03789473684211
Amount of scaled knockback caused to Roy (95 weight) before Rage:
12.24738461538461
Amount of scaled knockback caused to Jigglypuff (68 weight) before Rage:
12.48
Amount of non-scaled knockback caused to everyone before Rage:
120

Yeah, that's right, the scaled knockback is 1/10th the non-scaled knockback.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

In my opinion, Rage is pretty fair for every kind of character; the only issue I have with it is that some attacks may kill to early, but it's not like they become OP.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm mixed on it. I like that it essentially buffed heavyweights which are inheritedly not great.

What I don't like is that it messes up combos at certain percents and leads to more percentage memorization.

 

[Axel311]

Love it. It makes matches much more hype and exciting, from a spectator's point of view. It makes more matches closer.

As as far as making the game more luck or skill...it probably does make it more luck based. However, you need to learn to adapt to rage, by playing more cautiously when your opponent's rage puts your at kill percent when you normally shouldn't be.

 

[goose32]

I love it. There has yet to be a smash game where a heavyweight is top tier (unless Snake is included, but his kit was overloaded), and rage gives them a boost. I think it adds another layer to the game, where if you're not good enough to land your kill moves when needed, you'll be punished for it if your opponent is able to land theirs.

 

[KawaiiPiranha]

I hardly notice it really, but I don't play at a super-competitive level.

That being said, anything that gives heavier characters some advantage is fine by me.

 

[Gamesfreak13563]

I love it. There has yet to be a smash game where a heavyweight is top tier [...]

This is because top tiers are inevitably fast, and fast/heavy seems to be a character archetype that is yet to be exploited. I would love to see some character that is both fast and heavy, but has some deficit elsewhere (poor comboing ability or poor damage output, perhaps).

 

[Furret24]

This is because top tiers are inevitably fast, and fast/heavy seems to be a character archetype that is yet to be exploited. I would love to see some character that is both fast and heavy, but has some deficit elsewhere (poor comboing ability or poor damage output, perhaps).

 

[Gamesfreak13563]

I suppose you could call fast and heavy too, but his recovery deficit far outweighs his strength. I guess is the closest we have.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I suppose you could call fast and heavy too, but his recovery deficit far outweighs his strength. I guess is the closest we have.

Little Mac is far from heavy. He's actually a lightweight along the lines of Peach. Current closest we have to a fast and heavy character is Captain Falcon.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

while I hate it as a mechanic, its necessary with the way the recoveries and ledge mechanics work now, its rare when you can gimp someone because the recoveries are really good on top of the ledge snapping to you miles away. come backs would be a myth without rage but I guess the 2 stock format would take care of that problem any way

 

[goose32]

This is because top tiers are inevitably fast, and fast/heavy seems to be a character archetype that is yet to be exploited. I would love to see some character that is both fast and heavy, but has some deficit elsewhere (poor comboing ability or poor damage output, perhaps).

I know it's because they're fast; there isn't a mystery to it. My point was that it impacts heavy-hitting characters the most, and they've never been rated particularly high, so it seems like a solid change to give them a boost.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

I like rage because it gives a slight edge to heavies, which have always been some of the worst characters in previous games. While the heavies are still far from top tier, some of them have gotten to mid tier this game, and I believe the rage mechanic has helped them do so.

 

[Saikyoshi]

As several users have stated, it makes heavy characters actually usable. Furthermore, it punishes opponents who bide their time and don't go in for the kill.

It's here to stay, and I welcome it.

 

[LancerStaff]

It's an interesting mechanic for a lot of reasons. I'm kinda biased for it since my character benefits pretty heavily, heh.

Still, since Smash tier lists typically look more like a speed ranking then an actual tier list, the addition is welcome. It really shouldn't apply to certain moves (weighed KB moves and multihit moves you're not supposed to escape) and something needs to be done about how it combines with smash attack vulnerability, though.

 

[the_muffin]

I dig it. Gives heavies a good boost, and makes matches more hype.

I'm biased though, I main Ike, Bowser, and Ganon, soooo.