Your Opinion on Kill Throws

[Xandercosm]

Kill throws are a major part of Smash 4. They give characters that have them an extra kill option. This can be incredibly useful at high percents, when one grab may end a stock. However, not all characters have kill throws.

What I'm wondering is: what do people think about kill throws in general? Should all characters have them? Should none? If all characters had them, it would be more fair, since all the characters would have that extra option. If none of them had them, players would be forced to be more creative with their kills at high percents.

What do you guys think?

 

[FamilyTeam]

I like things the way they are, really. I think Mario's Back throw kiling anywhere from 120 to 210% depending on the character and DI is perhaps a tad too weak, but other than that complaint, I don't mind them.
Haven't we always had that option, even back in Smash 64 when we just had Forward and Back throw?

 

[Frizz]

Robin had one, but then the nerf happened. Which is quite fine by me as I wasn't too heavily reliant on them like Robin mains are with their tomes and Levin Sword nowadays. So I think things should stay the way they are. Hey, maybe we could get throws to lead into even more combos. What do you think? Fthrow to Arcthunder would be nice.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's important to keep note that the weight of the thrown fighter plays a factor on how quickly he/she can get KO'd. In Mario's case, he's obviously going to KO Jigglypuff with his throws sooner than if he throws Bowser.

As such, if a throw isn't KOing someone, just keep note on how heavy that thrown fighter is, and that might help answer your question.

On a side note, even if a fighter's throws have powerful knockback, that doesn't necessarily mean that his/her grabs are good. This is especially noted with Robin, where even though his throws are strong, his grabs aren't all that reliable.

 

[Fluorescent]

It would seem fair if we were to give everyone a kill throw but that kinda adds more options for characters like Sheik (who I think is ridiculously strong). Giving her a kill throw would probably add more to her being a 'good' character and just better than others in general but that's just my opinion.

Other than that, kill throws do help a few characters like Tink who doesn't have to rely on F-air for kill which adds more variety into his game so people wouldn't always just shield every aerial he does.

 

[Rinku リンク]

The only kill throw I have an issue with is Other than that I think the game is fine as is. Giving everyone a kill throw would cause some real balance issues in my opinion.

 

[Xandercosm]

By the way, I never stated my own personal opinion. So, just respond to the question. It seemed as though some of you thought I was saying that I think it's not fair the way things currently are. I'm, honestly, kind of neutral on this.

 

[FamilyTeam]

It's important to keep note that the weight of the thrown fighter plays a factor on how quickly he/she can get KO'd. In Mario's case, he's obviously going to KO Jigglypuff with his throws sooner than if he throws Bowser.

As such, if a throw isn't KOing someone, just keep note on how heavy that thrown fighter is, and that might help answer your question.

Ah, yes, I know this very well. Weight is a big factor in this game period, especially with knockback. It's just that, when I see Mario's back throw killing...

this late... I kind of get sad.

 

[Xermo]

Would suck if everyone had kill throws. Normalizing characters makes the game stale and takes away uniqueness from characters already possessing good throws. Of course, then there are characters with all around garbage throws who could really benefit from gaining one, but that's a small minority.

Ness having godlike throws is a series staple. Sakurai better not cave in and nerf it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina has already been affected by the throw nerfs, as her f-throw and b-throw offer weaker knockback than before Smash 3DS got its first balance patch.

 

[LancerStaff]

Weight has two major effects on Mario's Bthrow; Knockback received (obviously), and how fast the animation plays. Many throws involving swinging the opponent around outright play faster or slower with less or more weight respectively. Not just the "So long king Bowsa!" kind, any typical Bthrow really. Since Mario's Bthrow is already lengthy it make a huge difference.

Anyway, I don't think every character should get a kill throw, but a lot of our bad characters would be loads more functional if they had ways to kill from a grab at least. Yeah yeah, it'd be pretty obvious homogenization, but if they're more likely to buff a character's throws and stuff because a late kill from a grab (or just a kill from a laggy throw in general) won't really upset the balance of FFAs compared to a safer/better Fsmash or something.

 

[Dar4]

The design in theory is fine as is. Some characters should have them, others shouldn't. If you don't have one you should be compensated equally somewhere else in your moveset. Giving every character a kill throw would homogenize the characters way too much, and giving nobody one would also homogenize kill options by providing less of them.

 

[Kalierdarke]

Some characters could strongly use a kill throw, other characters don't need one because they kill fine without one.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I think they're a good thing. Not every character should have one, especially ones that can kill perfectly fine without them, but for characters who aren't the best at killing otherwise (such as Mewtwo, Ness), having a kill throw is a perfectly fine way to give them an extra boost. If Mewtwo didn't have his kill throw he'd be even worse than he already is. Ness is decent but I'm sure without his kill throw he wouldn't be nearly as good. So I don't mind them.

 

[Xermo]

but for characters who aren't the best at killing otherwise (such as Mewtwo, Ness), having a kill throw is a perfectly fine way to give them an extra boost.

Ness doesn't struggle with killing, lol. Even without bthrow.
You're doing something wrong, mate.

 

[Angbad]

I like things the way they are, really. I think Mario's Back throw kiling anywhere from 120 to 210% depending on the character and DI is perhaps a tad too weak, but other than that complaint, I don't mind them.
Haven't we always had that option, even back in Smash 64 when we just had Forward and Back throw?

What the **** did you just complain about mario's bthrow lmao

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am not even upset about Ness's Back Throw. It's fine the way it is, and Ness isn't even THAT good to begin with. Yes, PK Fire does a lot of damage, but you shouldn't let Ness hit you with it in the first place. I really enjoy Ness being competitively viable this time around. I don't want him to be nerfed.

Mewtwo also should kill earlier with his U Throw I feel. And B Throw also needs to be a far better kill throw. I wouldn't mind F Throw's Shadow Balls being able to kill either, as that would be the most beautiful way to end a stock I'd think.

Samus is also a character that would benefit HUGELY from having a kill throw. Or having decent kill set ups with throws. D Throw into Screw Attack would look amazing, and requires a certain risk cause Screw Attack has ugly lag. Does Bowser even have kill throws? I don't think he does.

Diddy's Forward and Back Throw also need to kill earlier.

 

[EleH]

I don't mind kill throws, though I personally believe they should be nerfed a bit. Not because they're op by any means, but because it's a little boring when you see people go for the same killing option over and over again. Maybe that's just me and my 'go big or go home' playstyle, but, it just seems like an unnecessary threat sometimes.

 

[Xandercosm]

Am not even upset about Ness's Back Throw. It's fine the way it is, and Ness isn't even THAT good to begin with. Yes, PK Fire does a lot of damage, but you shouldn't let Ness hit you with it in the first place. I really enjoy Ness being competitively viable this time around. I don't want him to be nerfed.

Mewtwo also should kill earlier with his U Throw I feel. And B Throw also needs to be a far better kill throw. I wouldn't mind F Throw's Shadow Balls being able to kill either, as that would be the most beautiful way to end a stock I'd think.

Samus is also a character that would benefit HUGELY from having a kill throw. Or having decent kill set ups with throws. D Throw into Screw Attack would look amazing, and requires a certain risk cause Screw Attack has ugly lag. Does Bowser even have kill throws? I don't think he does.

Diddy's Forward and Back Throw also need to kill earlier.

Yeah, Bowser's back throw kill's slightly later than Mario's, I believe.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't mind kill throws, though I personally believe they should be nerfed a bit. Not because they're op by any means, but because it's a little boring when you see people go for the same killing option over and over again. Maybe that's just me and my 'go big or go home' playstyle, but, it just seems like an unnecessary threat sometimes.

I'd rather have some set kill options in this game, because otherwise this game can evolve into Brawl 2.0 where taking a stock takes ages, and camping is the best strategy. Bowser, Samus and Mewtwo really need this, otherwise they'll be lackluster forever.

 

[Xandercosm]

I'd rather have some set kill options in this game, because otherwise this game can evolve into Brawl 2.0 where taking a stock takes ages, and camping is the best strategy. Bowser, Samus and Mewtwo really need this, otherwise they'll be lackluster forever.

Bowser isn't even a camping character. And, like I said, he has a kill throw.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Bowser isn't even a camping character. And, like I said, he has a kill throw.

And of course, Flying Slam is a devastating move if Bowser successfully catches someone with it. As such, Bowser doesn't necessarily need his grabs and throws to make KOs, since he has ways to make KOs by other means.

Of course, using Flying Slam to commit suicide should only be done if Bowser has the life advantage.

 

[GooberGaming]

The only issue I have with Kill throws is 's. I just find that it kills too early, and it is super annoying playing a character with no projectiles against a Ness who sits at the edge of the stage once your in kill range. It's great fun when your playing as and you need to force an approach by not approaching because you will surely get shield grabbed and die....

 

[wedl!!]

Ness Bthrow isn't the main problem with the character. It's his dashgrab being too safe, if anything.

He really doesn't need to be changed IMO.

 

[Xandercosm]

I think both his dash grab and his back throw should be nerfed. It's so anticlimactic when a Ness wins with a back throw. It's probably the least skillful way you could possibly win a match.

 

[EleH]

I'd rather have some set kill options in this game, because otherwise this game can evolve into Brawl 2.0 where taking a stock takes ages, and camping is the best strategy. Bowser, Samus and Mewtwo really need this, otherwise they'll be lackluster forever.

True, I just prefer using a nice smash attack to kill - that's all.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Looking at my two mains, a kill throw can really make or break a character. After his Uthrow got buffed (into the best Uthrow in the game), Charizard went from literally the worst character in the game according to the community tier list, to low-mid tier. He got a few other nice buffs as well, but that one was huge. The kill throw alone was enough to move him up quite a bit.

Looking at Dedede, who doesn't kill with throws until ridiculously high percents if your opponent does simple DI, he really has to get creative with his kills, which is a huge problem if your opponent is tough to edgeguard and can punish any kill attempts. DDD does have other decent ways to kill, but if he got a kill throw, just that would guarantee him a spot in the mid-tiers I believe, especially with his grab range and gordo traps to secure the grab.

In my opinion kill throws have a huge effect on the character they are given to. Right now, I don't think that any characters have undeserved kill throws. However, there are characters that could really use one, but I understand why Nintendo would be reluctant to give them out. It was correct to give one to Charizard. Being the worst character in the game is a good reason, but even mid tiers who could really use a kill throw/setup can possibly break the game if they get one, so I can understand why many characters that could really use a kill throw don't have one. I think that everything is pretty good as is.

[rant]On a completely partial note: Dude just give a kill throw seriously he is bottom tier he won't break the game.
And what is up with and his back throw I mean that is just a tad bit ridiculous he is such an outlier when it comes to killing with throws[/rant]

 

[WD40]

Gameplay wise, I think they're fine. Forces you to play more cautiously at the end of a match vs certain opponents. Can lead to some really intense moments avoiding that grab you know will result in a loss.

Logically, kill throws make very little sense. The big beefy characters have weak, wimpy throws while tiny runts like Toon Link and Ness can chuck you around like a sack of potatoes.

With that said, as a spectator, it is incredibly anti-climactic when a great set ends with someone getting a kill throw.

 

[Xandercosm]

Looking at my two mains, a kill throw can really make or break a character. After his Uthrow got buffed (into the best Uthrow in the game), Charizard went from literally the worst character in the game according to the community tier list, to low-mid tier. He got a few other nice buffs as well, but that one was huge. The kill throw alone was enough to move him up quite a bit.

Looking at Dedede, who doesn't kill with throws until ridiculously high percents if your opponent does simple DI, he really has to get creative with his kills, which is a huge problem if your opponent is tough to edgeguard and can punish any kill attempts. DDD does have other decent ways to kill, but if he got a kill throw, just that would guarantee him a spot in the mid-tiers I believe, especially with his grab range and gordo traps to secure the grab.

In my opinion kill throws have a huge effect on the character they are given to. Right now, I don't think that any characters have undeserved kill throws. However, there are characters that could really use one, but I understand why Nintendo would be reluctant to give them out. It was correct to give one to Charizard. Being the worst character in the game is a good reason, but even mid tiers who could really use a kill throw/setup can possibly break the game if they get one, so I can understand why many characters that could really use a kill throw don't have one. I think that everything is pretty good as is.

[rant]On a completely partial note: Dude just give a kill throw seriously he is bottom tier he won't break the game.
And what is up with and his back throw I mean that is just a tad bit ridiculous he is such an outlier when it comes to killing with throws[/rant]

So your saying giving a mid tier like Link a kill throw would break the game? Really?

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

So your saying giving a mid tier like Link a kill throw would break the game? Really?

Oh. . . yeah I chose my words poorly. I was just trying to say that kill throws have a large effect on the character they are given to. Not game breaking or anywhere close to that. (And doesn't link's U-throw already kill?)

 

[Xandercosm]

Oh. . . yeah I chose my words poorly. I was just trying to say that kill throws have a large effect on the character they are given to. Not game breaking or anywhere close to that. (And doesn't link's U-throw already kill?)

All right, fair enough.

 

[Uffe]

The only characters I can think of having killer throws based on supernatural or superhuman strength:



and might be an exception. I think all three have one, anyway.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It depends. There are some throws like Mario's back throw that are too weak, there are some like Marth's up throw that are just right, and there are some like Ness' back throw that are ****ing ridiculous.

 

[Notoriginalname]

Everyone needs a kill throw, it makes everyone better and it helps take stocks quicker. Also people people who complain about kill throws probably never played PM or Melee.

 

[Top Boss]

the game is too reliant on grabs, which is extremely stupid. Nerf the strongest kill throws to the point where they're a decent option, not something you can fish for.

 

[Direspect only!]

I think the characters should get forward throw and down throw for tech chases, back throw for killing and up throw to put the oppoment in a disadvantage. As the air is in smash.

 

[SH1]

I think the characters should get forward throw and down throw for tech chases, back throw for killing and up throw to put the oppoment in a disadvantage. As the air is in smash.

In that sense, faster characters would be god.

 

[Direspect only!]

No, the knockback would be scaled appropriately so everyone can tech chase. Slower characters have more time. Faster characters hace less, plus the fact that heavy characters hit harder, so it would actually benefit the heavies more.

 

[SH1]

No, the knockback would be scaled appropriately so everyone can tech chase. Slower characters have more time. Faster characters have less, plus the fact that heavy characters hit harder, so it would actually benefit the heavies more.

Knockback wouldn't make a difference because factors like DI and angles matter. High knockback is what puts people into a techable animation. If were to give fast characters low knockback then they may not have the knockback required to put the opponent in a techable animation which can remove the ability to have a tech chasing game.

See what I'm saying? Angles + Knockback are what matter but not just knockback alone. Sonic's Dthrow for example is a great tech chasing throw because it sends the character being grabbed at a very low angle and has just the right knockback for someone to tech.

It will always benefit fast characters more than it will heavies. A heavy character like Ganondorf in Melee can use his dthrow to start tech chases on space animals at around 0-20%, however Ganon may not be able to punish because the space animal can DI away from Ganon and tech away. Ganon doesn't have the speed to stop that.

Look at Melee Sheik for example, she can reactively tech chase which means if the Sheik player can get the grab and react to the space animal's option she can catch them everytime without having to read them. There are other options like tech in place shine, but that's a discussion for another day.

 

[Mothman]

I'm also pretty sure that kill throw moves can be come stale if you use grab a lot, which tends to happen to me with the blue pikmin grab