Downdraft
Smash Ace
Hello, I have mained Zelda since February 2013 (2.5b) and have noticed that Zelda makes many players angry. She is a newb slayer, but even good players complain about her despite her increased limitations in 3.5. Why people don't just ask for help, research, and learn the counterplay like they should for any other matchup bewilders me. Sure one may think that she isn't fun to play against, but that can be said for any character. 3.5 severely toned down several of her most "polarizing" attributes, but she has yet to receive sufficient compensation for what she lost. She has poor movement: slow dash, short dash-dance, short wavedash, poor aerial mobility. She has a bad neutral. She struggles against mobile characters, characters with good projectiles, characters with significant disjoint, shorter characters, and characters that simply have better options. The characters I have just described cover over half the roster. She has a frame 11 jab with no reliable followups on proper DI. She is highly vulnerable above opponents, with Farore's (high startup) generally being her only option to return to the stage. She has no guaranteed followups on proper throw DI. Most players don't know the proper DI for U-smash and F-tilt, but those are her bread and butter combo starters and the only ones that offer some consistency once the opponent learns how to DI Zelda's attacks. The weaknesses I've mentioned just scratch the surface.
If you don't like her, what sets you off? Do you not like fighting defensive characters? Poor mobility results in limited options for approaching. She can't force approaches either. If being defensive upsets you, are you comparably upset when playing against other characters with poor neutral games and limited approach options? Was/is she "too different" from the rest of the cast? That is a dangerous sentiment. Diversity is superior to homogenization. Removing characters' unique factors and advanced techniques to make them more similar to the rest of the cast can produce bad results and alienates players that previously mained those characters unless the changes justifiably removed "jank", "free", or "polarizing" options. Perhaps one is not used to Zelda being able to contend since she is not viable in Melee, Brawl, or Smash 4 at a top level. Placement wise, she isn't that good in PM either.
Anyways, this thread is intended to have a civil, open discussion with the community on what they don't like about Zelda's current design, how they would propose altering it without changing the way she plays or decreasing her viability further, and to be a place where you can ask for help with the Zelda matchup. Our board rarely receives outside visitors. A thread like this has been long overdue. Most negative discussion regarding Zelda has occurred on our boards, in private, scattered around the web, or offline. There hasn't been a good arena for discussing the character with the greater community. I'd encourage everyone to speak from reason rather than emotion. This thread is not intended to ask for buffs/nerfs or debate pre-3.5 versions of Zelda.
Also, I'm linking several threads that are relevant to the community's perception of Zelda.
From the Zelda Board
http://smashboards.com/threads/this-is-where-im-gonna-complain-about-zelda.409096/
http://smashboards.com/threads/how-a-non-zelda-player-would-change-her.409542/
http://smashboards.com/threads/triforce-of-inspiration-the-last-piece-of-the-tetraforce-is.395380/
From Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/34us0d/discussion_is_zelda_unfun_to_fight_against_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/3c55gf/why_cant_zeldas_down_air_be_a_spike/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2l35i2/how_would_you_change_zelda/
If you don't like her, what sets you off? Do you not like fighting defensive characters? Poor mobility results in limited options for approaching. She can't force approaches either. If being defensive upsets you, are you comparably upset when playing against other characters with poor neutral games and limited approach options? Was/is she "too different" from the rest of the cast? That is a dangerous sentiment. Diversity is superior to homogenization. Removing characters' unique factors and advanced techniques to make them more similar to the rest of the cast can produce bad results and alienates players that previously mained those characters unless the changes justifiably removed "jank", "free", or "polarizing" options. Perhaps one is not used to Zelda being able to contend since she is not viable in Melee, Brawl, or Smash 4 at a top level. Placement wise, she isn't that good in PM either.
Anyways, this thread is intended to have a civil, open discussion with the community on what they don't like about Zelda's current design, how they would propose altering it without changing the way she plays or decreasing her viability further, and to be a place where you can ask for help with the Zelda matchup. Our board rarely receives outside visitors. A thread like this has been long overdue. Most negative discussion regarding Zelda has occurred on our boards, in private, scattered around the web, or offline. There hasn't been a good arena for discussing the character with the greater community. I'd encourage everyone to speak from reason rather than emotion. This thread is not intended to ask for buffs/nerfs or debate pre-3.5 versions of Zelda.
Also, I'm linking several threads that are relevant to the community's perception of Zelda.
From the Zelda Board
http://smashboards.com/threads/this-is-where-im-gonna-complain-about-zelda.409096/
http://smashboards.com/threads/how-a-non-zelda-player-would-change-her.409542/
http://smashboards.com/threads/triforce-of-inspiration-the-last-piece-of-the-tetraforce-is.395380/
From Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/34us0d/discussion_is_zelda_unfun_to_fight_against_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/3c55gf/why_cant_zeldas_down_air_be_a_spike/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2l35i2/how_would_you_change_zelda/
