Your Favorite Technique

[Strong Badam]

I find L-Canceling to be an abhorrent mechanic because it offers extremely little competitive depth compared to the alternative, which is simply universally halved landing lag. It makes the game harder for those trying to get into it and doesn't give good players anything further to explore, unlike mechanics like wavedashing that are still finding new or more optimal uses today with ledgedashes and platform wavelanding.

 

[arcticfox8]

Fav technique-Shine > UpSmash
2nd fav technique - Shine > Shine > UpSmash
3rd fav technique - Shine > Shine > Shine > UpSmash

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

OU DACUS

Always brings the Hype!

 

[JCOnyx]

I find L-Canceling to be an abhorrent mechanic because it offers extremely little competitive depth compared to the alternative, which is simply universally halved landing lag. It makes the game harder for those trying to get into it and doesn't give good players anything further to explore, unlike mechanics like wavedashing that are still finding new or more optimal uses today with ledgedashes and platform wavelanding.

I remember when my girlfriend and I were talking about how they might come to compromise on Melee and Brawl physics for Smash4, L-Canceling came up almost immediately. It's such an essential skill that it's basically become second nature for competitive players coming from Melee, but was it completely necessary? Honestly, if you look at the applications of L-Canceling, all it comes down to is if you L-Cancel or you don't (which can lead to all sorts of problems). Didn't really seem that dynamic to us. But L-Canceling is basically what makes Melee as fast as it is, so what could they do?

Simply cutting all the landing lag in half, that's what. It removes an unnecessary skill that doesn't really provide any additional depth, you simply must do it if you want to compete at any sort of competitive level. This helps keep the skill cap down for more casual players and it doesn't restrain those who prefer Melee's play-style.

Sorry for kind of going off topic. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that L-Canceling could simply be replaced with shorter landing lag.

To get back on subject, my favorite technique would probably be SHFFLing, which is actually a combination of multiple techniques. My favorite of those 3 techniques would probably be Short Hopping. The sheer amount of additional pressure you get just by simply jumping at a lower height is astounding.

I wish more games incorporated Short Hopping as I'm not a big fan of KoF (The Last Blade series was pretty good... I'm off topic again dammit).

 

[Deco-Nii]

dash dancing then grab upthrow and up air

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

It'd have to be between Short Hops - a simple input that diversifies your movepool so much, it's amazing, really - and Ike's QD-JC-USmash.

Got a double kill in a 1 v 2 team match after my partner died, with that technique. So absurdly good :D [Then the two guys came back on their last stocks and killed me, but oh well. Can't always have the happy ending.]

 

[PastLink]

I find L-Canceling to be an abhorrent mechanic because it offers extremely little competitive depth compared to the alternative, which is simply universally halved landing lag. It makes the game harder for those trying to get into it and doesn't give good players anything further to explore, unlike mechanics like wavedashing that are still finding new or more optimal uses today with ledgedashes and platform wavelanding.

Well, I'm not gonna argue against your opinion. Because I see the point your opinion has, but even though it's not as diverse a mechanic, JCOnyx has a point that it does seperate the casual from the growing-full fledged competetive players. granted there IS more to being a good competetive player than just pressing L before you land. As a developer though, have you considered any ways to possibly improve this mechanic?
we could just make a frame window that cancel's lag 100% like 64 L cancels....

 

[Izzmo]

I love moonwalking so much, it's become my basic mode of transport whenever I play Falcon but my favourite technique would probably be Stickywalking if it'd work just like in melee, with almost timestopping steps and all. (I just can't get it to be as pronounced as in melee, maybe that's current physics or maybe that's me [pls help if you have figured out how i have to modify my timing to get it to work])

But until that's dealt with it has to be Pivot Walking. It's just fun and flashy as hell doing literal pirouettes around your opponents.

 

[Strong Badam]

Well, I'm not gonna argue against your opinion. Because I see the point your opinion has, but even though it's not as diverse a mechanic, JCOnyx has a point that it does seperate the casual from the growing-full fledged competetive players. granted there IS more to being a good competetive player than just pressing L before you land. As a developer though, have you considered any ways to possibly improve this mechanic?

I feel like this sort of argument is weak because it seems to work under the assumption that high level play doesn't have enough going for it to separate competitive players from more casual players, which I find to be an insult to the game (both Melee and Project M itself) in a few ways. There are so many different things that separate players, there are even visible gaps between casual and competitive Brawl players that are easy to see, and that game's ATs are a lot more nuanced in how they're used.

I have, but it likely won't happen. An improved L-Cancel mechanic would be a great thing to see in a future Smash game, but like many ideas, Project M is not the game to give it a shot in. PM is invested heavily in the feel and competitive metagame of its predecessor and straying all too far away from that without improving the game noticeably doesn't do much for us.

 

[JCOnyx]

I don't know who got confused and thought that I was suggesting that L-Canceling makes a huge difference between someone being a casual or a competitive player, but its probably one of the lesser skills used to to determine ones skill level. Knowledge of one's character and tools and being able to read your opponent comes first, and its pretty obvious when someone is lacking in one of those departments.

All I was stating is that it is one of the lesser skills used to determine ones skill level, but it doesn't provide any additional benefit besides its initial application. There isn't a way to explore its usage any further than "press L to do things faster". Which can be simplified to just cutting the landing lag in half so we can rely on L for better things like shielding, dodging, and WD and not wear out our controllers even faster.

This is just a personal opinion on the tech itself and not on competitive smash as a whole. I hope this clears things up. Also, I'm sorry for any typos because I wrote this on my phone since I wanted to clear any confusion about this as quickly as possible.

 

[Eisen]

DJC, wavedashes, and dash dances all make up "things I do for finger tension release when I kill my opponent."

Also as a Lucas main, naturally things like magnet cancelling and wavebouncing are great too.

 

[\Apples]

I really just love wavedashing with Luigi. And SH double aerials with Luigi. I also really love Shinegrabs.

Bouncing off non-player objects with Wario's D-air (Smashville Balloon, Wolf's Blaster, Dedede's pillows, Shy Guys, etc). So advanced, I know. I'm smelling the roses here; clearly, I'm a Wario main.

Favorite technique: DACUS
Least favorite technique: L-Canceling.

I'm really surprised you enjoy DACUS. I've never met someone who actually enjoys that mechanic.

I feel you on L-Canceling, though. However, I don't think it's quite as bad as I used to think it was. What I do like about it is the pressure it applies to the player in situations which ask them to pay close attention to every character on screen, every second of the match. It asks the player to focus on reaction time more than muscle memory, as opposed to just focusing on muscle memory. Which I think is good because this relationship creates a spectrum of a micro-playstyle with muscle memory on one side and reaction time on the other side.

For instance, when Ganon's D-air gets spot dodged, the Ganon player can easily mess up his L-Cancel if he expected to hit the other player or their shield. Other examples are moves like Wario, Meta Knight, and Sonic's D-air's. I like that these moves ask the player to watch their character in order to get their L-Cancel right, which is cool because most of the time, you're better off keeping your eyes focused on your opponent's character. So it gives the player a reason to pay close attention to their own character as well.

When I look at L-Canceling like that, I can respect the mechanic a little more because I see how it impacts playstyles and overall gameplay, creating simple and elegant dichotomies in technique which players must learn to balance in order to perform at the top of the metagame.

 

[Strong Badam]

DACUS is an extremely interesting mechanic that gives otherwise relatively slow characters a tool to close a lot of distance at the expense of a pretty deep commitment. Plus it further deepens a lot of combo trees. I would probably never play 2.1 Ike for this reason. DACUSing is just far too much fun.

 

[Saito]

I'm really surprised you enjoy DACUS. I've never met someone who actually enjoys that mechanic.

I would think that anyone would hate it until they learn how to use it.

Then it's just far too sexy to hate.

 

[\Apples]

That's actually a pretty fair argument. Well said.

 

[Sebovich]

DACUS is an extremely interesting mechanic that gives otherwise relatively slow characters a tool to close a lot of distance at the expense of a pretty deep commitment. Plus it further deepens a lot of combo trees. I would probably never play 2.1 Ike for this reason. DACUSing is just far too much fun.

DACUSing with Ganon is one of the most beautiful things in the world.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

Favorites:

- Pillaring (90% of why I love playing Falco)
- JC grab out of Ike's side-B
- Dash-dancing
- Float-canceling


Least favorites:

- SHDL with Fox (because laser camping is stupid)
- L-canceling, in my opinion, isn't an inherently toxic gameplay element, but I do feel that its purpose is far too limited in its current application. It only does one thing and has zero drawbacks, so there's no reason to ever skip the input, and the player is punished for not L-canceling.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

DACUS is an extremely interesting mechanic that gives otherwise relatively slow characters a tool to close a lot of distance at the expense of a pretty deep commitment

It's funny how Lucas has one as a residual effect from Brawl when he's been sped up in PM... The deep commitment part is definitely true doe. It's one of the most satisfying types of reads that exist in Smash.

 

[DrinkingFood]

It's funny how Lucas has one as a residual effect from Brawl when he's been sped up in PM...

lucas would still have a "natural" DACUS tho, he's got a 4 frame jumpstart

 

[PastLink]

I feel like this sort of argument is weak because it seems to work under the assumption that high level play doesn't have enough going for it to separate competitive players from more casual players, which I find to be an insult to the game (both Melee and Project M itself) in a few ways. There are so many different things that separate players, there are even visible gaps between casual and competitive Brawl players that are easy to see, and that game's ATs are a lot more nuanced in how they're used.

I have, but it likely won't happen. An improved L-Cancel mechanic would be a great thing to see in a future Smash game, but like many ideas, Project M is not the game to give it a shot in. PM is invested heavily in the feel and competitive metagame of its predecessor and straying all too far away from that without improving the game noticeably doesn't do much for us.

granted there IS more to being a good competetive player than just pressing L before you land.
as i put it, and i meant no disrespect towards cmpetetive players so do forgive me if it came across that way if you will. but upon reflection yeah it is a weak arguement and as Ridley up above said there isn't a drawback to doing it. have you considered removing it all together? and rebalancing characters around that lost speed? I mean spacies and falcon would still be good without the L cancel.
As for the second part I question as to why not? I can see that polish is in fact a priority of the PMBR but isn't this really an ideal opprotunity to experiment with something like this? I'd really love more PM exclusive techs like AGTing. If it doesn't improve the game noticably then I agree, it doesn't do much for anyone. but who knows for sure?

 

[xXSciophobiaXx]

Im kinda surprised with no mention of Aerial Glide Tossing(AGT). Its such a fundamentally crazy ability its just way too great.

For Link: AGT
Its just freakin fantastic that I can recover from anywhere any percent (essentially) with a well timed AGT into bomb jump. And hell, why stop there, just do another AGT for show.

Favourite AT for other characters.

Two way tie: Wavelanding platforms and doing aerials off of the momentum is pretty satisfying.

Also, I don't know what the actual name of the technique is… Is it called platform cancelling when you get like 0 lag on an aerial because your momentum carries you off the edge? I call it "perfect cancelling" but thats only because I have no idea what else to call it. This technique allows for the most ridiculous combos but of course cannot be counted on by any mere mortal.

Notable mentions: B-sticking. What the hell, I've become pretty good with b-sticking, and it just seems so fantastically useful I am so surprised at the lack of mention it has gotten in this thread. Theres nothing quite like running away from an opponent on FD with falcon, doing a b-sticked falcon punch and pivoting it. Its flipping awesome how deceptive it can be.

For some reason footstool comes to mind. Perhaps its that the most ridiculous events that have occurred in smash have often involved footstooling. Any semi-combo that results in a offstage gimp with a footstool gets in my books as a ridiculous win.

Great thread, thanks for the read.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Also, I don't know what the actual name of the technique is… Is it called platform cancelling when you get like 0 lag on an aerial because your momentum carries you off the edge? I call it "perfect cancelling" but thats only because I have no idea what else to call it. This technique allows for the most ridiculous combos but of course cannot be counted on by any mere mortal.

Notable mentions: B-sticking. What the hell, I've become pretty good with b-sticking, and it just seems so fantastically useful I am so surprised at the lack of mention it has gotten in this thread.

it's called edge canceling actually, and it's quite possible to get down reliably but requires a lot of work since the spacing changes for every character's physics. it's easiest with characters with high air speed/mobility or with low traction

also b-sticking is really more of just a control setting, the turning around momentum reversal is more commonly called a B-reversal

 

[Eisen]

Wait, who in Project M benefits from B-sticking?

 

[DrinkingFood]

from using b reversals? lots of characters, even if you'd only ever need or want it rarely
from setting the c stick to special? you're probably losing more than you're gaining by not having full drifting ability during your aerials

 

[Burnsy]

Isn't b-sticking just a brawl term for using the cstick to b-reverse and RBR? Wouldn't the better question be who benefits from those?

 

[DrinkingFood]

hence my confusion as to properly answering

 

[WumpaWolfy]

Easily wavedashing, pretty much the reason I switched from Brawl to Melee. And I didn't even know how to use it effectively, it just felt so damn good. Add to that the flow it adds to mobility, spacing options, shine cancels and combos, and a way to escape from shield pressure...damn. It was also the main technique noobs recognized as the way to tell a scrub from a pro lol. Mad ego boost.

 

[Johnknight1]

Winning is the best technique

 

[PastLink]

from using b reversals? lots of characters, even if you'd only ever need or want it rarely
from setting the c stick to special? you're probably losing more than you're gaining by not having full drifting ability during your aerials

drifting ability? care to educate a fledgling?

 

[DrinkingFood]

drifting just refers to holding left or right while falling or jumping, including during most aerials and some specials, to influence your momentum. If you use a C-stick set to special instead of attack or smash, you are forced to use the control stick to determine which aerial you are doing, forcing you to drift in that direction for as long as you hold the stick to do the aerial. Using the c stick to do aerials (instead of as bstick for specials) lets you dedicate the control stick to your drifting direction while using the cstick to determine the direction you do your aerials in, meaning you have more control over your jumps/falls while doing aerials.

 

[PastLink]

drifting just refers to holding left or right while falling or jumping, including during most aerials and some specials, to influence your momentum. If you use a C-stick set to special instead of attack or smash, you are forced to use the control stick to determine which aerial you are doing, forcing you to drift in that direction for as long as you hold the stick to do the aerial. Using the c stick to do aerials (instead of as bstick for specials) lets you dedicate the control stick to your drifting direction while using the cstick to determine the direction you do your aerials in, meaning you have more control over your jumps/falls while doing aerials.

aaaaaaaaah this makes so much sense. thanks man.

 

[xXSciophobiaXx]

I guess I'd like to clarify what I meant. I just was referring to the ability to reverse your character's momentum with or without changing the direction of the special attack. I definitely do not have the C-stick set to special. I am quite unfamiliar with some of the more advanced technique names as already indicated by my previous post.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I guess I'd like to clarify what I meant. I just was referring to the ability to reverse your character's momentum with or without changing the direction of the special attack. I definitely do not have the C-stick set to special. I am quite unfamiliar with some of the more advanced technique names as already indicated by my previous post.

ahh ok
well if you ever know you're unsure of the names feel free to ask

 

[Johnknight1]

DI is probably the most useful "technique", although there is nothing "advanced" about it...

...except that it can be used in many advanced ways.