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Yoshi's Stage: It's Time for a Change

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
Looking back on it now, I guess you could say that I’m fortunate to have some of my favorite Melee stages in the “neutral” or random stages in tournament play. Yoshi’s Story and Pokemon Stadium. It’s hard to deny Yoshi’s Story’s visual appeal with it’s crisp clean cardboard style. The occasional shy guy parade offers a cloud of cover or confusion subtly adding to the chaos of battle. The slanted ends on either side of the stage provides an even lower point to duck away from danger especially for small characters like Kirby. And the short boundaries of the stage can make even weak attacks seem strong when even heavy characters die more quickly than expected. And if all of this weren’t enough, there’s the cloud. The cloud seems to have a personality of it’s own. It saves life, and it takes life all without betraying its frozen smile.

<a href="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/yoshis.gif" title="Yoshi’s Seasons"><img src="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/yoshis.gif" alt="Yoshi’s Seasons" /></a>

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It amazes me that a stage with so much character is continually supported as a neutral stage in competitive smash. We all know that Melee included some of the stages from the N64 smash bros, and we have to assume that Brawl can do the same with the Melee stages. The original Corneria from the N64 game was refurbished with a new look, a more compact size, and other small tweaks. This was a smart decision. Though Melee carries the same spirit as the original smash, the strength and balance of the game has drastically changed. In the “old days”, all the throws could send characters careening across the stage even at low damage. For this reason, most of the N64 stages were huge. Simply importing a stage from any previous game comes at a price. All three past stages in Melee have very high ceilings and sides. Even with adjustments to their sizes, the past stages are still too big. On average, the percent that a character dies at on those stages is significantly higher than Melee’s original stages. In the same way that Hyrule Temple gives the players the unnatural ability to survive, the past stages in Melee do the same but to a lesser degree.

This is why I was intrigued upon seeing the new Yoshi stage both in the brawl trailer and in the Dojo update today. This new stage features slanted edges and the occasional shy guy parade. The cloud seems to be replaced with a ghost. This stage also has a single platform. The only other stage like it is the middle section of Jungle Japes. Still, this new stage is even more unique. The stage has a dip in the middle, and the platform can tilt to at least three different angles.

The art style for this new stage is reminiscent of the new style from Yoshi’s Island DS. The stage even goes through the four seasons. The new stage looks promising. Even if it comes at a sacrifice to any of the other three Yoshi stages for the Brawl stage roster, I think it’s time for a change.

“It certainly has its own distinct air.
Change is sometimes good.” -Sakarai

On an ending note, I think it’s clear to say that the competitive smashers don’t ban a level because it’s dynamic, and they don’t favor a level because it’s plain and predictable. We want to have fun just like anyone else. But when two players refuse to fight each other because one player finds a spot that gives him an advantage refusing to move from it, and the other player refuses to attack, the game and the fun stalls.

I used to wonder if the game could somehow figure out if the players were camping and morph the level accordingly. If this happened, we could have a lot more levels in regular tournament play. Then I realized that there is a level like that already. It may not sense when there is camping, but it does transform to initiate and get rid of camping on a timer. And this level is in the tournament neutral stages. That’s right. If you haven’t guess it, it’s Pokemon Stadium. One of my favorite levels in the game, and it changes often.

Change is definitely good.
 
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Master Makoku

Guest
I think its pretty cool what ur doing but do u have to say so much. Id love to read it but I lose interest pretty quick (yes short atension span). Other than that great job.
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
I’m trying to find the balance between covering enough background information and zooming in directly to the topic at hand.

I’m not sure where my audience is yet.

I’m working on stream lining everything.

Thanks
 
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MisterSinister

Guest
Your posts are not overly lengthy, if anything I feel as though they stop just as they start to get going. They look big but if I could suggest one thing I would say have a taster on the main page and put the majority of it behind a cut.

I think this level looks stunning. Change is most certainly a good thing and I think they will be modifying the amount that a level changes and often keeping it minor in Brawl. Ranging from levels that change like Termina, well the background of Termina; the moon and the four giants; to levels that change like Delfino plaza. I also think that there will be far less camping opportunities than in Melee.

In my opinion the levels look overall to be: simple with subtle changes. I think this fits smash bros perfectly and we are going to have some mindblowing good stages to look forward to.
 

PrinnyFlute

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Messages
331
Really glad you’re now taking the time to write on the updates. These new entries seem a tad on the subjective side, though, so it’s a little weird. How many people write to this blog? Having entries this opionated would be cool if there were a few different voices, but so far it all seems a bit biased with just the one. I’d recommend shearing down the length and either presenting more objectively or getting someone else to lend a hand with a more casual players perspective in mind. Don’t take this the wrong way, though. You’re doing a great job, and it’s not like you’re being overbearing in the least or anything.

I really look forward to this stage, for the music alone. I can understand the statement on tournament stages and wanting to avoid standstills, but I have to contend it really seems more like a lot of ‘pro’ players want to make things as flat and timing based as possible when it comes to which stages are kosher. If the reason for pruning at least half the stages in the game is really… Well, honestly, it seems ludicrous to chop off more than, what, 10 stages that Sakura and his team worked really hard to make just to solve a problem, instead of just penalizing players who bring games to standstills or abuse their situations too much. Like looking at the Mona Lisa and just cropping off everything other than her face because the rest is ‘distracting and unimportant.’
 
R

Rupe

Guest
I agree with some of the other comment posters–I really enjoy what you’re doing with with this blog.
You speak from an experience and unbiased standpoint that I can respect, and I like that your assessments tend toward high level play rather than the casual “party game” style of play.
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
I appreciate all the comments made, and I will seriously take them into consideration.

I think we have more bloggers on the roster, but I’m not directly in communication with them. Judging by the absence of updates to the blog before I joined, I don’t think they’re planning on contributing regularly.

If I could write from any other perspective than my own I would. Maybe I should invest in split personality and have one play melee all day? In the mean time, I do my best by interviewing a lot of different kinds of smashers.

Prinny Flute,

I would love to penalize players for “camping” or doing anything else that the particular tournament deems unproductive. But from my experience, it is much harder to control people if you give them the option. The way we see it, we’re just a bunch of “kids,” (people our own age) trying to earn enough respect to make rules and enforce them so that tournaments can exist in the first place. We make things easier for ourselves by taking away the option to camp, so that the situation doesn’t escalate into a judgment call on who’s really camping. This is understandable especially considering that all the “officials” for the tournament can’t see all the matches at once.

The exact reasons why the stages where chopped off throughout the years can be elusive. But, I now fully understand the benefit of playing on only a few “neutral” stages.

Melee is such a massive and deeply complicated game, that it took us six years of constant evolution to reach this point. Because we could have evolved and expanded other areas of smash, limiting the levels has allowed us to focus our time and minds on a base playing experience. This experience involves flat surfaces and some platforms. Now we have a highly advanced play style for flat surfaces.

It took my brother and me six years to hone our team strategies into a working game. Recently we played some of the “other” stages on teams and we found our strategies completely fell apart or they needed serious adjustment. It’s not that the other stages are bad, but there’s simply too much to work with.

If Brawl weren’t coming out, we would definitely have another 6 years of evolution to work on. Perhaps we would do was many card game do when releasing new sets. Perhaps we would completely ban all the stages we normally play and turn everything on it’s head.

Don’t forget. We prosmashers have pokemon stadium and rainbow cruise in our randoms.
 
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Lava

Guest
Good job man, I agree with Rupe. You don’t really need to “change up your style” or whatever some people are saying. Just keep being honest and fair, and all will be as it should. Oh and yeah, I like that you aren’t talking n00b speak to us. Thanks, much appreciated.

I also agree with MisterSinister about the “…if I could suggest one thing I would say have a taster on the main page and put the majority of it behind a cut.” to some degree as well. Just so people who can’t read a lot will stop complaining. How is this an issue anyway?
 
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shadow

Guest
they better change the annoying music for the yoshi stage because its starting get sssooooooooooooo annoying
 
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