Yoshi's inconsistent double jump annoys me.

[Velox]

Ok, first off, I double jump through everything. I feel it is a hugh character specific strength of Yoshi, so I try to make the most of it, especially in the match up vs. Marth. It's sort of like crouch canceling in the air, and you can punish right after with a n-air, u-air, etc. Both n-air and u-air work especially well I've noticed. One for comboing, one for killing.

Anyways, the knockback is so inconsistent it makes me and my Yoshi cry. Half of the time I'm getting Falcon punched and not even flinching, then the other time Pikachu is u-airing me and it rips me right out of my double jump and spikes me at 0%. Sometimes, Pika's u-air won't even make me flinch (even with the spike part) at like 100%. There is this good Pikachu I get to play all the time, so I know not to double jump out of things too much, cause u-air usually takes you out of it and has **** results. But half the time the u-air doesn't even make me flinch.

Now, I'm not just complaining about one move, this happens to me with every move in the game, it's not move specific near as I can tell. The other day I was watching Svampen double jump through a Marth tippered f-smash, and it gave him the normal knockback, as if he just took it to the face and didn't double jump.

What's the deal? I know it makes you like 12 times heavier than normal. I'm pretty sure this isn't due to me getting hit by different hitboxes of moves, therby causing the inconsistancy. It's just random as to whether or not I get hit out.

And I'm getting hit out like beginning-mid double jump, it's not like I'm getting hit at the end of the double jump, because that would be understandable. No, this is when my double jump is strongest that I'm getting knocked out of it by random Fox n-airs at like 40%, but then taking the same move at 80% and not moving.

I'm also not doing a move before getting hit, that would obviously cause the double jump effect to not take effect. This is always when I'm double jumping, not when I double jump and then do a move and then getting hit.

So I guess what this boils down to is a couple of questions:

Has anyone else noticed this?

Is it perhaps because of different hitboxes on different moves (ie. a part on Pika's hitbox that might have more "fixed knockback" ala the spike, than another part of the move, such as the part that combos)?

Is there various parts on Yoshi's double jump where the effect varies?

Am I perhaps mistaken, and don't know they I accidentally do an aerial or egg throw before I get hit?

What do you guys think?

 

[teeman92]

......er...yeah,whatever you said

 

[Opfer]

I think that there is some dependency on when and where you get hit. For example, I've noticed that I get knocked out often when I get hit at the beginning of the DJ, and there seems to be an increased tendency to get knocked out when they hit Yoshi on the head from above. But this is just what I experienced, so with some testing, you might find out more.

 

[Velox]

I think that there is some dependency on when and where you get hit. For example, I've noticed that I get knocked out often when I get hit at the beginning of the DJ, and there seems to be an increased tendency to get knocked out when they hit Yoshi on the head from above. But this is just what I experienced, so with some testing, you might find out more.

Hmmm, this is the kinda thing I'm looking for. I think the answer to my question might be when in Yoshi's double jump his resistance to attacks it greatest. If right at the beginning of Yoshi's double jump is the weakest of resistance, that's information that all Yoshi's could benefit from. I need to do more research on it though.

I don't think it has anything to do with where he was hit though, good observation though, but I just couldn't reason why that would be a contributing factor.

 

[RedYoshi92]

..what you said on the thread.

 

[rmusgrave]

Statistically speaking, Yoshi's double jump has the same reduction in power to your opponent's attack at any point throughout the double jumping animation. Therefore, saying its strongest point is at the start or end of the double jump is unrealistic.

The 'power' of an attack I am talking about, and you have to keep in mind, is the knockback. Yoshi's double jump is broken by attacks with a certain amount of knockback. Obviously, at higher damages, the knockback of a move is increased, as that is the way smash works. However, there are some moves that have unnaturally high knockback at low percentages as well. Moves like Falco's shine, Pikachu's up-air, Roy's reverse up-b etc all break Yoshi's double jump at ridiculously low damage.

I believe I posted it in a topic before that has been lost somewhere in this forum, but Yoshi's break point for his double jump, for any move, is the same as the break point for his crouch cancel. At high percentages pretty much any move could knock Yoshi out of double jump, but at around 30% you would need something like a Marth tipper to break you out. If you want to test percentages a move can break the double jump, its usually easiest to test it with a crouch cancel.

So, this difference you are finding could be due to the different %s you are getting hit at.


Also, moves like Pikachu's upair have multiple hitboxes hitting in different directions and with different powers. Some of them may break your DJ but not all of them at low %. The only other thing I could think of is as you suggested, sometimes you may have hit a button like A, B, L or R while double jumping and proceeded to start an attack or dodge before you got hit, and it seemed like your double jump did nothing.

In conclusion, Yoshi's double jump is predictable when it breaks. Learn the breakpoints for the moves that frustrate you, and if its a move like Pikachu's upair, then learn his spacing for a break and adapt.

 

[Bloshi]

I believe I posted it in a topic before that has been lost somewhere in this forum, but Yoshi's break point for his double jump, for any move, is the same as the break point for his crouch cancel.

You posted that in your guide. >.>