Yoshi is quite the nightmare for Ganon...

[Metal_Dave]

Well I finally got to try out this match up today in a few friendlies, but didn't get an opportunity to record them so I apologize in advance. ;[

Although the matches came really close in a very tight game it was still a very difficult task to make the game a close call. To me at least this has to be a very difficult match up for ganon to approach just like a GW match up since theres a lack of priority.

Dash attack approach can easily be stopped by yoshis run+grab which most people know is devastating. And forward b approach can't really use that much often either since a simple bair can easily cancel it out. Also difficult to edge guard, but that's what kept me in the game pretty much against this Yoshi.

So anybody else want to share their experiences with Yoshi players, because I really think this matchup is a nightmare for Ganon.

 

[Dragmire]

hey metal if anyone I think I can say that your ganon plays in a negative way for fighting yoshi's your way more of an offensive ganon while you need to be defensive to fight yoshi

how do I know I've fought many pro yoshis and learned that the little *******s are really annoying but are easily killable. btw if you can manage to tipman your just asking for a guarantee kill. but you need to defend his approach and flame choke out of it. then the fun begins be sure to keep jabbing until it reaches a % high enough for D tilt to kill Unstaled will kill about 130%. for some odd reason I find that down B edge cancelled Uairs as my best damage rackers on them.

while this is all random information I know your ganon and this may or may not help but try it in your next fight

 

[Metal_Dave]

Ah thats cool yeah...definitely a defensive stand is a better strategy to go with in this matchup. I do tend to be very offensive with my Ganon, and yeah I tried to slow it down a bit at times, but egg spam can get pretty boring. I guess the only option really to be on the safe side would have to be playing it slow and not so offensive.

Thanks for the input Drag, and sorry didn't let you in my room on wifi...was doing some GBs.

 

[Dragmire]

it's cool


LEARN TO BE PATIENT CAMPING EXISTS

 

[Metal_Dave]

it's cool


LEARN TO BE PATIENT CAMPING EXISTS

This is true...camping ftl. I wonder how Yoshi does against a Snake...never seen that match up once I think. O_o

 

[Inraika-Zero]

Yoshi can be a Pain..
But Always remeber..
Everyone is a Pain for Ganon..

Especially that friggin Olimar..

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hey, actually Yoshi could possibly be a worse matchup than G&W. How could this be?

Yoshi has a grab release CG on Ganon.

 

[Union of Darkness]

I wouldn't worry. No one plays Yoshi anyway.

Spoiler

10derps

 

[degypr]

This is true...camping ftl. I wonder how Yoshi does against a Snake...never seen that match up once I think. O_o

Yoshi is pretty good against everyone due to his **** Forward B with amazing priority.

I wouldn't worry. No one plays Yoshi anyway.

But then it sucks when you face someone who mains him like I do. Yoshi's Egg Roll is worth gold when facing Ganondorf's useless jumping ability. Does anyone know any Ganon attack you can use when Yoshi lies in his egg?

 

[Yuna]

Stuff.

Well, they both suck, so it's all a question of who sucks more.

Yoshi is pretty good against everyone due to his **** Forward B with amazing priority.

Yoshi's Forward B has bad priority.

 

[degypr]

Well, they both suck, so it's all a question of who sucks more.


Yoshi's Forward B has bad priority.

It has? Lol, then it must be I who always fight Yoshi with people with even worse priority. the only thing I know who stops the darn thing is Zelda's Fsmash.

 

[Gleam]

I'm sorry, but seriously, Yoshi can't do **** to Ganondorf. Ganon's ground game easily beats Yoshi's ground game. Smashes, tilts, majority of specials, they all out prioritorize, out reach and out power whatever moves the little dinosaur uses on the ground.

If Ganon could approach in the air, I'd easily say Ganon had better aerials. The attacks themselves are way better, but since approaching in the air isn't one of Ganon's strong points, I'd give it sligtly to Yoshi.

Yoshi doesn't even have any out of shield options, he has a hard time getting KOs.

Honestly, unless your just being chaingrabbed again and again (Which at that point you should probably smack the worthless person) Ganondorf>Yoshi. I'm not saying a good Yoshi can't do some crazy techniques but in an overall sense, this easily goes to Ganondorf.

 

[Swoops]

Yoshi is pretty good against everyone due to his **** Forward B with amazing priority.


But then it sucks when you face someone who mains him like I do. Yoshi's Egg Roll is worth gold when facing Ganondorf's useless jumping ability. Does anyone know any Ganon attack you can use when Yoshi lies in his egg?

wut? Lol I'm just going to ignore the "Yoshi is good against every character because of egg roll" comment.

stoooooomp? Um, I've had gerudo go through egg roll countless times. Fsmash, ftilt actually clanks I think, dtilt probably clanks. Really all you need to kill the sh*t out of egg roll is stomp, and the yoshi is going to be rrreally careful about using egg roll against the 'dorf.

His main difficulties against Yoshi, and I'm not going to say huge difficulties because I think the match is pretty even, are b-air, egg toss, and his chain release grab. B-air cuts through just about every approach you have sooo, rarely approach. Keep to your defenses if he's trying to weave in and out with b-air. F-tilt is one of you're sweet anti-short hop aerial moves and it should do a good job of snuffing an incoming Yoshi. I would say Wizkick too because it's fast enough to take out people who are short hopping a short distance away from your f-tilt, but it'll probably get beat out b b-air if they're precise with it.

Know what you can do to a landing Yoshi as well, because everybody has the small amount of lag on landing no matter if it's an empty jump or not. Look for the Gerudo on landing mostly because you get everything out of it. D-tilt, jab, f-tilt, DA...you can have your way with the little dino. Gerudo>DA probably kills him around 90-100% so you have a guaranteed go-to kill if you can't land anything else and I might keep DA fresh just in case.

Egg toss is nothing big, but it's a projectile and they're a thorn in Ganon's side. Most of the time though you won't be able to cancel them out with an attack so stick to walking forward and powershielding. As for the chain release grab, well I don't know the DI to get out or what percent it goes to, so just don't get grabbed.

You can crush his double jumps at times but a good Yoshi won't let that happen often. Still look for an opportunity to edgeguard though as you can kill his heavy armor and upb him to his death, but the latter is very risky. Yoshi isn't a bad match up for Ganon, but he's a little annoying sometimes. Stay in control and work your defense until you can start your offense a little.

...oh, and one last thing, you know that there's a MATCH UP DISCUSSION THREAD for just this sort of thing? Oof just checked...still not stickied. Well here's the link anyways FD's Ganondorf Match-Up Thread

 

[Mmac]

*Sigh* You guys really don't know alot when it comes to our character, nor most of you are really helping the guy who's asking for help in the first place. Claiming that "He sucks" or "Nobody plays him" doesn't really help him because eventually he has to face his friend again, who will probably use Yoshi once more.

Not all "Good" Yoshi Egg Roll spam (Infact that's what Terrible Yoshi's do... It's just like spamming Tornado with MK, it doesn't work).

Swoops put it pretty good, but forgot some things about him. Good Yoshi's tend to use Pivot Grabs, and use them well. If he knows how (Like me), He can snag you right out of your Down/Side B, and pretty much any horizontal approach. Judging from MD's Running Grab abuse, he shouldn't worry about this from his friend.

About his Release Grab CG, It's a release grab, so Ganondorf always goes the same distance no matter his %. You can't DI out of it or react in time to do anything, so it's basically inescapable. The only thing you can really do it just wait it out until he runs out of room. Another thing is that He can also follow it up with a Usmash after the release. This is also unavoidable and makes Yoshi killing Ganondorf much easier than you can suspect. Even if it doesn't kill him, it sets him up for a Uair Kill if Ganondorf at a pretty high %. Don't even bother trying to beat it out with your Dair, or even his DownB. Yoshi can beat it out, even if he takes the hit. Most cases, you'll die, and Yoshi will receive a hard, but safe, impact to the ground.

Swoops and Dragmire have the right idea to play defensively. However Yoshi's eggs are almost designed to force you into the offencive, where you have much less options, and much more open to attack. Try to avoid going into his trap and somehow force him into the offencive instead. The only other thing I might add is that You want to avoid using any moves that has tons of Afterlag. Yoshi is a Fast Combo character and should be treated as such. Uair is probably the best attack against him, so you want to stay below him as much as possible

Also that Matchup List doesn't have Yoshi on it.... >_>

 

[Metal_Dave]

*Sigh* You guys really don't know alot when it comes to our character, nor most of you are really helping the guy who's asking for help in the first place. Claiming that "He sucks" or "Nobody plays him" doesn't really help him because eventually he has to face his friend again, who will probably use Yoshi once more.

Not all "Good" Yoshi Egg Roll spam (Infact that's what Terrible Yoshi's do... It's just like spamming Tornado with MK, it doesn't work).

Swoops put it pretty good, but forgot some things about him. Good Yoshi's tend to use Pivot Grabs, and use them well. If he knows how (Like me), He can snag you right out of your Down/Side B, and pretty much any horizontal approach. Judging from MD's Running Grab abuse, he shouldn't worry about this from his friend.

About his Release Grab CG, It's a release grab, so Ganondorf always goes the same distance no matter his %. You can't DI out of it or react in time to do anything, so it's basically inescapable. The only thing you can really do it just wait it out until he runs out of room. Another thing is that He can also follow it up with a Usmash after the release. This is also unavoidable and makes Yoshi killing Ganondorf much easier than you can suspect. Even if it doesn't kill him, it sets him up for a Uair Kill if Ganondorf at a pretty high %. Don't even bother trying to beat it out with your Dair, or even his DownB. Yoshi can beat it out, even if he takes the hit. Most cases, you'll die, and Yoshi will receive a hard, but safe, impact to the ground.

Swoops and Dragmire have the right idea to play defensively. However Yoshi's eggs are almost designed to force you into the offencive, where you have much less options, and much more open to attack. Try to avoid going into his trap and somehow force him into the offencive instead. The only other thing I might add is that You want to avoid using any moves that has tons of Afterlag. Yoshi is a Fast Combo character and should be treated as such. Uair is probably the best attack against him, so you want to stay below him as much as possible

Also that Matchup List doesn't have Yoshi on it.... >_>

This man just nailed the match perfectly. Especially the egg toss when you try to slow the game down which really makes it difficult. Since Yoshi can control the tempo of the match. I do love Ganon, and I don't think it's impossible, but imo this match up does seem to lean more towards Yoshi. And the Release Grab is quite a pain too.

 

[Union of Darkness]

But then it sucks when you face someone who mains him like I do. Yoshi's Egg Roll is worth gold when facing Ganondorf's useless jumping ability. Does anyone know any Ganon attack you can use when Yoshi lies in his egg?

First, my first post was just sarcasm.

Second, Flame Choke out prioritizes Egg Roll when timed right. Thunderstorming stops him cold. Wizard's Foot cancels Egg Roll entirely for gods' sake.

These are the kind of things you need to know if you play Ganon.

 

[canswer]

if you are playing online, all those are very hard to do due to the lag... any amount of lag = ganon getting ***** IMO

 

[Metal_Dave]

if you are playing online, all those are very hard to do due to the lag... any amount of lag = ganon getting ***** IMO

This is true which could make the match up even worse. But as of now I think Yoshi has a pretty huge advantage over Ganon.

 

[Shiri]

This matchup isn't totally hopeless.

Ganondorf actually has very nice ground spacing in this matchup if he can manage to stay about one and a half character lengths away from Yoshi. Playing super close range, mid range, or (LOL) long range is a bad idea, so you want to be up close and personal, but out of range of Yoshi's jabs, which are quite good. Play a good ground spacing game and, if you decide to jump for SOME reason, make it an empty short hop or a full jump neutral and try to bait some mistakes. Don't spam your own jab or enter the same predictable attack rotation that most Ganondorf players do when applying close pressure and you'll do okay.

Just don't get hit. If you do...I hope your DI is amazing, LOL.

P.S. - In regards to Egg Roll, I can only assume (since I can't speak for anybody other than myself) that most Yoshi players Egg Roll reactively. That is to say, there is a reason they're going to perform the move and expect it to hit or at least put you in a compromising position (which the move is very capable of in this matchup). Ganondorf has two or three techniques that stop it, but those are mostly reactionary as well. Ganondorf's playstyle (until we can find a way to speed him up) is such that his reactionary techniques don't often beat out moves that are used to punish him unless they are poorly spaced, slowly executed, or purposely baited. Having said that, I think Egg Roll is viable in this matchup at mid range and at mid to low percents for some really annoying non-techable damage on Ganondorf. It's not a go-to move, but if Ganondorf slips up and the desire to Egg Roll enters the Yoshi player, it can be used without fear of significant punishment.