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Yet Another "Critique My Fox" Thread

OneShineMan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
3
I said I would be creating one of these soon and here it is. I'm still learning the basics of Fox and Melee in general. I think my edgeguarding sucks terribly and it is my main problem (at least according to me, lol)

here are some clips of me getting destroyed by more experienced players:

Best of 3 vs. Karu

Friendlies vs Hell (this video is 3h long, just pick a random match lol)

I think my main problem is edgeguarding in general. In fact, I featured on a grsmash video because of a failed edguard (#8 at 0:38) lol. Any tips would be really appreciated. Thanks!
 

Archelon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
393
Location
Ontario, Canada
-Fox has a really good dashdance
-He can Shine, Grab, Jab (to Upsmash on floaties), and D-tilt out of his run (and dash for Grab)
-This is something that can be incorporated into any fox's neutral game
(You can also SHFFL Nair and Dair out of run lol)
Hope I could help!
 

SuperShus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
267
Location
MD/VA
Slippi.gg
East#694
lol this falco has a lot of techskill

ok so first thing about vs falco is you cant really run around that much cuz lasers so jumping is pretty good, but try not to spend your double jump.
trying to clip him with a falling bair might work occasionally because he's pretty bad but it's not a good habit and youll have to stop sometime so stop now.
try going for fh nairs and fh dairs when youre trying to get over top of laser spam. if he reads it your donzo though and he'll shine you oos.

try taking platforms and circle camping to see what he does, if the falco has only practiced sh lasers he'll be free af. i remember specifically when i was still trash i was losing a set to a falco and i realized that he just couldnt keep up with my platform movement, and i came back and won.

see, falco has extremely fast vertical mobility with his huge fh. fox has great horizontal speed but falco locks that down with lasers. so the idea is to move through a mixture of vertical and horizontal space which puts the fear in falco. if you jump up and down in place, falco will just put up a wall of lasers. but if you jump and approach, falco knows too many lasers will mean he'll get hit while he's in laser lag so he has to stop lasering and start doing some preemptive attacks or giving up stage.

at this point you have the advantage

the rest of the matchup is getting the uthrow regrab uthrow utilt, uthrow uair/bair and upsmash combos

idk, with time youll get better, just keep playing.

play smart not technical

tech skill means more options, but if you dont know which options to choose, you could have all the options you want but youre still going to lose.

draw pictures in a notebook, imagine matches frame by frame, talk to other smashers, do whatever it takes to play smarter.
anyone can practice techskill, but you have to really try to learn how to apply it
 

Dominus Felis

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
102
Location
Oklahoma
Your main problem is a lacking on throw follow-ups. This was the first thing I noticed because this is something I practice a lot, and it makes me a little sad. I watched Game 1 vs. Karu and you didn't up-throw once the whole game, a grave mistake I feel. I will now make a giant table of up-throw follow-ups for you.

Up-throw on Falco
1. Always pummel once first, and try to frame perfect grab, pummel, up-throw.
2. Will they land on a platform, if yes go to 4; if no, go to 3.
3. If you can, re-grab. If up-smash will hit and kill, do that. If not, either bair, shine-turnaround bair, or up-tilt (pivot may be required) will hit or they are at a percentage where you should have down-thrown.
4. Did they hit their tech? If no, then up-air (follow ups for this at 5) If yes, then cover tech in place with up-air and react if they roll with another grab into up-throw and go to 1.
5. Bair or shine-turnaround bair usually work, waveland up-smash if they are on a side platform DI-ing to the top platform (situational).

If you follow this exactly you should get more than 50% off of any up-throw on any stage.
 

OneShineMan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
3
Thanks for the replies guys! I re-watched some of the videos and I noticed some of the things you said (e.g. I should definitely grab > up-throw more.) But I don't know how to implement some things like dashdancing (I always dashdance into an attack like an idiot, dashdance for too long, etc.) and I when I play against someone I move a lot slower than when I'm practicing. Also, I have terrible reactions. Any tips on how to practice dashdancing/reactions?

PD: no one said anything about edgeguarding, lol
 

SuperShus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
267
Location
MD/VA
Slippi.gg
East#694
ok, when you're talking about 'using dashdancing' that's both more and less complicated than what you mean.

the simple side is that you mean to position yourself to not get hit - or to create and opening, depending if you're aggro or campy

the complicated side is that basically this is all a mixup. SSBM Tutorials just released a video that less specifically covers what I'm about to cover.

Ok. So ultimately there are two perspectives on winning a match. A good player will alternate between, or blend, these approaches. I'll leave it up to you on how to mix them but I'll explain them both and how they eventually require each other.

Essentially if you're aggressive you want to run up and hit your opponent.
If every time you approach you simply dash forward and grab, usmash, nair, drillshine, sheild... it doesn't matter... it's all punishable. If your opponent knows that you're coming in on the same timing over and over, they'll get a read on what you will do once you get there. They only have to hit you, shield, spotdodge, dash back, so on.

Logically a lot of new players come to the conclusion that sometimes they should camp - however this is actually not an approach mixup.

You and your friend look guilty of this to me.

Try running up to your opponent, and right when you're almost in range of their longest range threat (falco/fox would be dash shffl nair/dair, marth would be rising fair/dtilt/fsmash, so on) wave dash down.
If youve been just running up and attacking over and over you'll see that they might go for a read on your movement but you mixed it up! So react to their failed read and punish by launching into a combo (dont just usmash - combos actually get more percent and feel more fun than just a smash attack. In most match ups a grab is best)
Some people have so much fun with this feeling they never actually approach. They always run up and then don't attack.
Then what the enemy can do is just go hit you while you're wavedashing back.

So then you know that you have to both run right up and attack, and run right up and don't get hit. This is the way to maintain an aggressive playstyle. If you retreat too far - you won't be able to get your punishes and your opponent won't feel pressured.
You have to walk the fine line between being so aggressive you're frothing at the mouth and being so careful that your enemy is never scared and can think clearly against you.
Remember fox is really fast. If you play right people should feel overwhelmed. Most characters don't have any way to deal with his speed and power.

A campy playstyle works just like what I said but you're on the other end. Use lasers to make them feel like they have to approach, then either wait for them to run up and hit you, or run up and hit them before they get to you. (Ive won tournament sets doing very little else, including a three stock comeback from the first time I ever used the strategy)
The psychology of it is daunting especially for characters without a projectile.

Be careful not to give up too much stage to laser. The stage is your best friend. The stage is what keeps you alive- if it weren't for the stage, you'd be falling to that bottom blast line.

Your mixups can have reads too, you might be doing run up attack, run up wait, run up attack, run up wait, and they're predicting you - or you may be platform camping or laser camping in a way that's getting you hit. If you switch from a campy style to an aggressive style, they'll have to compile a new list of reads against you. That may just save your life.

I hope this is enough. The subject is kind of complicated. You'll have to find out a lot more on your own.
 
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