WouW's Team v2

[WouW]

Ninjask @ Liechi Berry
Adamant/Speed Boost
252Atk/232HP/24Spe
Protect
Substitute
Baton Pass
X-Scissor

The lead. Protects first turn (unless the opponent is slow, in which case I sub), outspeeding everything and then Subs for Speed Boosts (and Liechi) and BPs those.

Rhyperior @ Expert Belt
Jolly/Solid Rock
252Atk/252Spe/4HP
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Aqua Tail
Fire Punch

With two or three Speed Boosts this thing becomes beastly fast and painful. Not sure if Adamant or Jolly nature would be better.

Metagross @ Expert Belt
Adamant/Clear Body
252Atk/124HP/132Spe
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Thunderpunch
Ice Punch

This will like a Speed Boost or two and then **** with its attacks.

Infernape @ Life Orb
Naive/Blaze
252SpA/64Atk/192Spe
Fire Blast
Close Combat
Grass Knot
Hidden Power Ice

I don't know what to write here. It's 'Nape. Nuff said.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Adamant/Poison Heal
252Atk/44HP/212Spe
Swords Dance
Sky Uppercut
Seed Bomb
Spore

If Speed BP'ed it's fast and can put something to sleep, and then SD and/or attack. Can sweep teams.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Modest/Pressure
140HP/116Spe/252SpA
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power Ice
Agility
Baton Pass

A backup Speed Passer and special attacker. Not much to say about this one.

 

[WouW]

*bumps for the sake of being noticed*

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Ninjask isn't all that reliable because of stealth rocks taking out half it's health.

Your biggest threat is any team that can take out whatever you BP to, or taunt your lead. When not outspeeded, use substitute first turn hoping your opponent switches so that you can get a free sword dance, unless it is obvious that he will stick with his first pokemon, his first pokemon is faster than yours before speed boost, or his first pokemon has a priority move.

It would be easier to judge if not all the pokemon were in terms of the somewhat unreliable Ninjask baton pass strategy.

Your team doesn't like earthquake much. Just about any pokemon with both a ground and a rock type attack will have fun (and there are quite a few). Water/ice also gives your team trouble. I don't necesarily think the team is bad, but I've seen this type of team countered.

 

[Circa]

Ninjask isn't all that reliable because of stealth rocks taking out half it's health.

Your biggest threat is any team that can take out whatever you BP to, or taunt your lead. When not outspeeded, use substitute first turn hoping your opponent switches so that you can get a free sword dance, unless it is obvious that he will stick with his first pokemon, his first pokemon is faster than yours before speed boost, or his first pokemon has a priority move.

That's why Ninjask is the lead. And iirc, a lot of people don't set up SR on Jask leads for fear that it gets off the free SD after the predicted subbing. Thus, he may not have to worry about SR for the entire match if things play out right.



Anyway, I don't actually have much to say, apart from that I'm biased in not liking a lot of the Pokes on your team. Nape scares me, Loom is gay, and Raperior seems to be among one of my least favorite rocks for some reason. But that's all willy-nilly. As for the team itself, it all seems fine. You're loaded up on LO users though, and I could see that being a problem if you hit stall teams. It may not become a huge issue (seeing as every one of them is originally meant to be a wall breaker), but such an occurrence may arise.

Despite not liking a lot of the Pokemon, however, I do like Jask. And this set is good, so I really have nothing to say about it.

As for the Rhyperior and Metagross, I would give one of them the speed boosting move and the other the versatile moveset. As for which should get what, I would probably go with Rhyperior to be the speed booster. He's more in dire need for the boosts, but he also has some huge weaknesses to common things in the current metagame (like basically every steel type) that make BP'ing to him a real hassle. Also, you might want to look into giving him a sash for the same reason as mentioned above; and maybe replace Aqua Tail with Fire Punch if you choose to give him rock polish. I actually wasn't even sure what Aqua Tail was meant to be covering in the first place (although I'm guessing ground types). If you can explain that to me, then I might have a different conclusion.

Like you said, Nape is Nape. 'Nuff said.

I like the Breloom set. It seems sort of different, and I could see it working out well if you get the opportunity for the BP. All I can really say about it is to consider drain punch over sky uppercut. It's weaker but more accurate, and that extra recovery may end up saving its life on a few occasions, and give it more chances for a prolonged sweep.

Zapdos is fine. However, you could try and drop some of the SATK or SPE EVs for extra HP or putting some of it into its Defenses. It won't hit as hard on the annoyances, but it would be easier to get off the BP if you did. I'm pretty sure Agility would make Zapdos faster than the majority of things anyway, even without EVs devoted to it.

Just a few things you could try. Like I said, I don't personally like the majority of the Pokemon, so I don't really know much about them. I hope I helped though.

 

[Wave⁂]

A strong priority attack (Ice Shard?) can take out Ninjasks before they can BP away. How do you get around that?

 

[WouW]

Switch into a Ice resist. Infernape beats most if not all Ice Sharders.

Otherwise I'll just sac Ninjask before switching in something else.

 

[Wave⁂]

But then you take SR damage if they're up, which can easily kill you.

And what do you do after sacrificing Ninjask? BP Agilities with Zapdos? Doesn't seem very reliable.

 

[SpelignFial]

for the lead jask i would trick a choice scarf on it but thata is just becasue i always carry a poke with choice scarf and trick

 

[NJzFinest]

For Ninjask, you can change your EV spread to 248 HP / 52 Atk / 184 Def / 24 Spe.

This way, Ice Shard/Bullet Punch from a CB Weavile/Scizor won't OHKO and even ExtremeSpeed from a LO Lucario won't 2HKO.

for the lead jask i would trick a choice scarf on it but thata is just becasue i always carry a poke with choice scarf and trick

That's why he protects first turn for the scouting + speed boost.


Also, BPing to Breloom doesn't seem to be safe because of how frail Breloom is. Given the fact that speed boost from Ninjask/Zapdos are enough to make a slow Pokemon such as Rhyperior into a fast sweeper, you probably don't need to many speed EVs on Breloom. That being said, maybe more EVs for HP? I mean, just to ensure you can soak one decent hit after the speed pass and spore+SD.

 

[Wave⁂]

Protect is easily predictable on Ninjask and other Speed Boosting Pokemon.

 

[NJzFinest]

And it's because of that reason that some people second guess reading for the protect. It's not uncommon to find a Ninjask that will Sub or SD first turn. 80% of the ones I face always sub, then reSub, protect or SD afterward.

But yeah, I kinda meant if the opponent's starter looked like a trick user. Luckily they're rare and easy to spot unless it's a Metagross.

Nevertheless, a speed boost is a boost.

 

[WouW]

For Ninjask, you can change your EV spread to 248 HP / 52 Atk / 184 Def / 24 Spe.

This way, Ice Shard/Bullet Punch from a CB Weavile/Scizor won't OHKO and even ExtremeSpeed from a LO Lucario won't 2HKO.

But I never have Ninjask at full health, so not OHKOing wouldn't ever matter. I'd much rather have more attack to actually dish out some damage.

But then you take SR damage if they're up, which can easily kill you.

That's why I keep Ninjask at slightly over 50% after the first pass, so I can switch in, protect and pass some more.

And what do you do after sacrificing Ninjask? BP Agilities with Zapdos? Doesn't seem very reliable.

Zapdos usually doesn't get much action until lategame, but I've managed to pass an Agility to Breloom who later sweeped the entire team. Might be a bit unreliable, but still works sometimes.

Also, BPing to Breloom doesn't seem to be safe because of how frail Breloom is. Given the fact that speed boost from Ninjask/Zapdos are enough to make a slow Pokemon such as Rhyperior into a fast sweeper, you probably don't need to many speed EVs on Breloom. That being said, maybe more EVs for HP? I mean, just to ensure you can soak one decent hit after the speed pass and spore+SD.

It works as it can switch into a Gyarados with a DD when passed speed (unless Gyara uses Ice Fang, but all Gyaras I see try to Waterfall Ninjask, and some don't even use Ice Fang), Spore whatever the hell comes/stays in, SD on the switch and pretty much **** the entire team. Really, I've swept teams with that.



Another thing I'm thinking about: Would it be good to replace Seed Bomb on Breloom with Stone Edge? I don't seem to be using Seed Bomb much.

 

[WouW]

Some things:

-I get killed by residual damage a lot. Primarily LO just stops me from sweeping through a whole team with Rhyperior and forcing me to start Speed Boosting with Ninjask again. I want to know what would be better items, as Choice just stops me after killing one poké, elemental plates are stupid, Expert Belt only works situationally and Muscle Band boosts too little. I'm personally thinking about Expert Belt.

-I never ever have time to use Rock Polish with Rhyperior, so I'm adding Fire Punch for extra coverage on pokés like Breloom.

-I'm also thinking about changing Rhyperior's nature to Adamant. Which nature would be better, when you consider I'll be having 2 or 3 speed boosts passed to it? (because that 95% of the time actually happens)

-Like in my post above this one, would Stone Edge be better than Seed Bomb on Breloom?

 

[NJzFinest]

But I never have Ninjask at full health, so not OHKOing wouldn't ever matter.

When you start the game, you do.

I'd much rather have more attack to actually dish out some damage.

What exactly are you going to damage? Far too many pokemon wouldn't mind taking on a X-Scissor coming off 90 base attack, so I'm assuming Azelf? Well with that spread I gave you, a X-Scissor gives you 276 - 326 (94.85% - 112.03%) on Zelf.

It works as it can switch into a Gyarados with a DD when passed speed (unless Gyara uses Ice Fang, but all Gyaras I see try to Waterfall Ninjask, and some don't even use Ice Fang), Spore whatever the hell comes/stays in, SD on the switch and pretty much **** the entire team. Really, I've swept teams with that.

I doubt everyone would try to take on your Ninjask with Gyarados, so I just assumed you'd want a more guaranteed successful pass in general by letting Breloom survive a wider range of attacks. But if people love using Gyara on your Ninjask, then go for it.

Would it be good to replace Seed Bomb on Breloom with Stone Edge? I don't seem to be using Seed Bomb much.

I'd rather stick with Seed Bomb because of Stone Edge's accuarcy can pull back from the sweep. Also, ghost that switch in will be 2HKO'd by Seed Bomb anyways. Celebi and flying types that are free from SR must be annoying though.

 

[WouW]

What exactly are you going to damage? Far too many pokemon wouldn't mind taking on a X-Scissor coming off 90 base attack, so I'm assuming Azelf? Well with that spread I gave you, a X-Scissor gives you 276 - 326 (94.85% - 112.03%) on Zelf.

TTars trying to set up, for example. If I would use your set, I would miss the guaranteed 2HKO on standard (smogon) CBTar (176/0).

I doubt everyone would try to take on your Ninjask with Gyarados, so I just assumed you'd want a more guaranteed successful pass in general by letting Breloom survive a wider range of attacks. But if people love using Gyara on your Ninjask, then go for it.

I've seen it happen a number of times. (and promptly swept their teams)

I'd rather stick with Seed Bomb because of Stone Edge's accuarcy can pull back from the sweep. Also, ghost that switch in will be 2HKO'd by Seed Bomb anyways. Celebi and flying types that are free from SR must be annoying though.

I don't have SR, so 'free from SR' doesn't really matter; but whatever, just dual STAB has lousy coverage and gets walled by any Flying, Poison or Bug type. Rock/Fighting has only a handful of resists, including Claydol, Toxicroak, the Nidos, Gallade and Medicham.
If the accuracy really would be bothersome, I could just at well use Rock Slide.

I'm just gonna try Stone Edge out and see how that goes.

EDIT: I noticed pseudo-hazing can be annoying. I was thinking to counter that, and I thought Cradily could make a good addition, with a moveset like:

Cradily @ Leftovers
Adamant/Suction Cups
252Spe/252Atk/4HP
Swords Dance
Stone Edge
Earthquake/Seed Bomb
Recover/Seed Bomb

Really likes being passed speed and possibly attack, stops phazers from phazing (Skarmory doesn't even 2HKO with Brave Bird, nor does Hippowdon with Earthquake) and can recover that off and SD up and eventually KO them. Seed Bomb would be useful for actually doing something to Hippo.

Another problem would be what to replace with it. I'm thinking about dropping Zapdos.

 

[NJzFinest]

TTars trying to set up, for example. If I would use your set, I would miss the guaranteed 2HKO on standard (smogon) CBTar (176/0).

A TTar should never switch into Ninjask. If Ninjask switches into a TTar and tries to 2HKO, it will die once TTar touches it lol.

I've seen it happen a number of times. (and promptly swept their teams)

I wasn't saying passing into Gyara wouldn't help. I just meant that why stop at Gyara and be able to pass into more pkm. Not everyone uses Gyara, especially specifically for Ninjask >.>

w/e

 

[WouW]

A TTar should never switch into Ninjask.

Occasionally they do. DDTars coming in thinking 'oh lol setup fodder' while I have my sub up and promptly hit them hard and they're forced to switch or be KOed.

 

[NJzFinest]

Those are some odd players you come across. If Ttar decides to DD infront of a Ninjask, wouldn't the fact that Ninjask will be passing more speed + sub to a counter be worse then X-Scissor damaging it, haha.

 

[supermarth64]

Remember, Ninjask leads get ***** by Metagross leads. Nothing you can really do to change that. Also, if they predict well, they'll set up SR while you Protect. Also, by the time you sub down far enough to activate your berry, you die on the next switch-in.

Your Rhyperior wants Adamant, as if he's receiving 2/3 speed boosts, that's significant enough already and will help boost his stats the most. Also, it wants Megahorn, as that takes down any Psychics and Celebi harder than Fire Punch does.

Don't switch out Zapdos for Cradily, as then your team is extremely slow.

Hey guess what? Taunt Gyarados ***** this team. If you don't take it out early game with Zapdos, you're sorta ****ed.

 

[WouW]

Remember, Ninjask leads get ***** by Metagross leads. Nothing you can really do to change that. Also, if they predict well, they'll set up SR while you Protect. Also, by the time you sub down far enough to activate your berry, you die on the next switch-in.

Get *****? How? The metagame discussion thread IIRC said 'MM spam. If the time is right, BP and/or explosion.'

MM spamming doesn't really seem reliable with 80% accuracy. And then I get a sub to not die from Bullet Punch and switch to something like Rhyperior that can outspeed and KO it.

That's to-ta-lly being *****. (Not.)

Also, I only sub down till 50% the first time, and later switch in again for a second pass.

 

[NJzFinest]

SR as you Protect. BP next turn and you'll have too low of HP to Sub up (if you don't die from it).

Get ***** Ninjask.

If you Sub first turn instead, Gross will still get rocks up and you can only pass +2 speed with no sub at best (because of BP). Congrats, your Ninjask is now at 25% and you got an "ok" pass off.

Get ***** Ninjask.

Or they can just BP spam for the start lol.

Get ***** Ninjask.

Get *****? How? The metagame discussion thread IIRC said 'MM spam. If the time is right, BP and/or explosion.'

Which is why almost everyone on smashboards = bad at this game, haha

 

[WouW]

SR as you Protect. BP next turn and you'll have too low of HP to Sub up (if you don't die from it).

You're kinda overestimating BP there - BP from Jolly and 252 EVs, as that set suggested, does only 46% max so I'll easily get my sub off. If I protect next turn, I have 3 speed boosts and a sub (which would probably be wasted by BP) to pass into for example Rhyperior who can outspeed and OHKO Metagross.

Anyway, as I said earlier, what would be good items to use to replace Life Orb? I get killed by LO damage a lot.

 

[NJzFinest]

Yeah, I did. I had no clue BP was that weak haha. Ninjask will be left with about 9% when it comes back in and SR will be up. That isn't too bad considering how LeadGross is meant to unsure rocks and kill/cripple one thing before it dies.

For you LO problem, Nape pretty much needs it. Gross can work well enough with lefties. Rhyperior, eh, dunno. It can't take hits like Gross can, I'd prolly leave that with LO, especially since it's your main pokemon to pass speed + sweep with.

 

[WouW]

Yeah, I did. Ninjask will be left with about 9% when it comes back in and SR will be up. That isn't too bad considering how LeadGross is meant to unsure rocks and kill/cripple one thing before it dies.

At least it leaves me with a +3 Rhyperior wreaking havoc.

For you LO problem, Nape pretty much needs it. Gross can work well enough with lefties. Rhyperior, eh, dunno. It can't take hits like Gross can, I'd prolly leave that with LO, especially since it's your main pokemon to pass speed + sweep with.

Rhyperior is also the main pokémon when it comes to getting killed by LO damage after whooping half a team. I was thinking about Expert Belt for it and Metagross, as they (especially Metagross) have something to hit SE with most of the time.

 

[supermarth64]

1) Most leadgrosses run Adamant, not Jolly.
2) MM has 85% accuracy.

So you either die on a switch-in due to SR or from Bullet Punch before you BP out. If you BP out early, you take heavy damage coming back in, and there's no way to heal because you have Liechi Berry instead of Leftovers.

 

[WouW]

1) Most leadgrosses run Adamant, not Jolly.

Okay, so instead I'll get 51% max, Sub and possibly immediately get Liechi to activate? Even better.

2) MM has 85% accuracy.

No big deal. It still can miss.

So you either die on a switch-in due to SR or from Bullet Punch before you BP out. If you BP out early, you take heavy damage coming back in, and there's no way to heal because you have Liechi Berry instead of Leftovers.

If my health's below 50% anyway, it doesn't make much difference whether I have Leftovers, a pinch berry or even Sitrus Berry anyway, Ninjask faints regardless.

 

[WouW]

After battling some more (and ****** teams with Expert Belt) I found out that I have a Rotom-A weakness. Anyone know what I could do about that?

Also, whee, 1000 posts.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What about giving Shadow Claw to Rhyperior?

Or breed to get Crunch

 

[supermarth64]

You could switch out Metagross for Ttar and make it also a receiver set so it can take down Rotoms with Crunch. Something like Stone Edge, Crunch, Fire Punch, w/e.

 

[WouW]

You could switch out Metagross for Ttar and make it also a receiver set so it can take down Rotoms with Crunch. Something like Stone Edge, Crunch, Fire Punch, w/e.

I don't think that would be a good idea, as SS kills Ninjask if it's at 50% and SR is up so I'm trying to avoid that as much as possible, and having two rock-types as primary recipients of Baton Pass isn't a good idea... I wouldn't have much options against Latias or Kingdra or something.

Currently trying out Crunch on Rhyperior - Aqua Tail is never used, so I replaced that.