Would you like it if PT's Pokemon was Separate Characters?

[Mmac]

Since that Brawl modifications have started to begun, alot of things are starting to get changed. Now assuming that a Hacked Brawl version becomes a major tournament standard, Would you like to play as Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard only if they changed his coding so that they no longer fatigue, but no longer does he switch out on death, or do you want Pokemon Trainer to remain the same as he currently is?

Personally, I would like to play as Ivysaur only. I like playing as him/her, but I can't stand the other two...

 

[Steeler]

this

would be awesome

i'd like to have the option of switching still available though...but **** this would be awesome. pt would suddenly be like high mid or even high in my eyes. because now you can at least soft counter almost any character in the game, excluding people like falco/marth/game and watch.

seriously, pt would suddenly get a whoooooole lot better. but if switching were still available, he'd be even better. if possible, could they even make it so you didn't have to use a certain pokemon even if you switched? ie ivysaur to charizard back to ivysaur against marth, since he ***** squirtle.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Possibly. It'd be better if they just took the stamina timer off, so only attacks counted towards fatigue.

I like having all three, though.

 

[Mmac]

Because you can only change the value of the code, and can't add in any more coding, you can either make it so that you switch on death, or don't switch on death. I don't think you can make it so that you can only swap between two characters, plus that wouldn't be fair to people who like that character that is being excluded, or doesn't want to use that character that is going to be switched into. I still think you can switch with his DownB, as I believe it's a different type of coding.

 

[Steeler]

you know, just having it so you come back on your next stock would be pretty nice in some cases...

yeah taking out stamina timer and no switch on death would still be helpful. there's just way too many things going against pt as is...

 

[Elliot Gale]

Pokemon Trainer would be cooler if he controlled Puff, Lucario, and Pikachu in addition to what he has now. You could easily set Down-B to have and extra input somewhere to control what pops out.

 

[Trip.]

Pokemon Trainer would be cooler if he controlled Puff, Lucario, and Pikachu in addition to what he has now. You could easily set Down-B to have and extra input somewhere to control what pops out.

That would be way badass.

 

[epicman]

Yes i would love that!

Out of pt's pokemon, I only like squirtle.

 

[Steeler]

yeah but...why would you want jigglypuff on your team lol

 

[Fearmy]

i honestly think they should make fatigue all the way to 6 Minutes. That's Enough time for a pokemon, and yet it still gives the concept of you have to switch, and we will have an excuse that we still have fatiuge so when PT becomes a Broken charater, Ppl won't cry.

Also they are planning to increase Hit STun. Ivysaur's BS is now broken

 

[aggrogahu]

LOL... charizard, ivysaur, squirtle, lucario, jigglypuff, and pikachu all in one character-- if you could change the input of the pokemon switch to the up taunt or something that'd be pretty sweet; we wouldn't want to lose pika's downB.

If they could take the timing aspect of the fatigue out I'd be pretty happy. If they could take fatigue away altogether I'd be pretty happy too. Overall I respect the 3-1 aspect of PT. Perhaps if the forced switch on respawn was still in, and fatigue wasn't as annoying as it was, it'd be enough to encourage the use of all 3.

 

[Elliot Gale]

One idea is to let him have six pokemon, then have the KOd pokemon drop your stock and be taken out of the rotation for the remainder of the match. This would obviously reset if all 6 were ever KOd (for those scrubs that play with obscene amounts of stock).

You want Puff in your team because she insta-deaths characters like Ike around 60.

 

[Steeler]

but pt can already handle ike just fine!

edit a better idea, if there were 6 pokemon, would be to allow you to choose any 3 of them for one match, a la stadium battle mode in some of the pokemon games.

 

[Knyaguy]

No not really, none of the pokemon "do it" for me.

edit a better idea, if there were 6 pokemon, would be to allow you to choose any 3 of them for one match, a la stadium battle mode in some of the pokemon games.

Oh that would be awesome!!

 

[Bomber7]

No thank you, I like switching out and keeping my opponent guessing.

 

[Fearmy]

but pt can already handle ike just fine!

edit a better idea, if there were 6 pokemon, would be to allow you to choose any 3 of them for one match, a la stadium battle mode in some of the pokemon games.

Have you played SH's Ike? I got REALLY Close, then the stupid, He does Dash attack i shield at the edge, and he hits a B-air right away, bye bye zard

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

No thank you, I like switching out and keeping my opponent guessing.

He said you would still be able to switch. You just don't NEED to any more.

 

[urdailywater]

yeah but...why would you want jigglypuff on your team lol

Because Jiggly rocks the house.

Brawl and singing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dViwos8kkSk

Jigglypuff is a really good fighter though..

 

[Brinzy]

No.

If we can switch still, then what's the point? So people who only like one of the Pokemon can just use that one Pokemon? It has its good sides, but that defeats the whole purpose of Pokemon Trainer. I'm sure that nobody cares about the way I look at things and that those who would love this idea probably think I'm being some self-righteous moron, but really, I'd rather take the arduous path and learn how to use all three of them in my even "hopeless" matches (or just use one of my legit counterpicks). In fact, I'd rather have them get rid of the stamina system altogether; if one of my Pokemon can remove two stocks from a player, why should I be punished for that?

Not to mention, how would this make PT better? People would have to fit Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard in the tier lists, but this wouldn't make PT himself better. In fact, those three would all rise above PT himself, and next thing you know, there'd no longer be a PT, but instead you'd just have those three. Another thing that they should've done is allow you to retain invincibility frames if you switch out as soon as you leave the platform. I know Zelda/Sheik gets this.

 

[Steeler]

just switching in the air and having the next pokeball appear on the ground directly underneath it would have been nice. since trainers in the anime and whatever switch in the air all the time. obviously you'd probably suicide if you tried this off stage...but at least you can switch in the air!

plus even without stamina, switching would still have its uses. like switching after you KO so the next will have fresh moves...plus against some characters, a team of two pokemon (like one racks up the damage and plays safe, the next is aggressive to KO) works better than just one poke per stock.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

No.

If we can switch still, then what's the point? So people who only like one of the Pokemon can just use that one Pokemon? It has its good sides, but that defeats the whole purpose of Pokemon Trainer. I'm sure that nobody cares about the way I look at things and that those who would love this idea probably think I'm being some self-righteous moron, but really, I'd rather take the arduous path and learn how to use all three of them in my even "hopeless" matches (or just use one of my legit counterpicks). In fact, I'd rather have them get rid of the stamina system altogether; if one of my Pokemon can remove two stocks from a player, why should I be punished for that?

Not to mention, how would this make PT better? People would have to fit Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard in the tier lists, but this wouldn't make PT himself better. In fact, those three would all rise above PT himself, and next thing you know, there'd no longer be a PT, but instead you'd just have those three. Another thing that they should've done is allow you to retain invincibility frames if you switch out as soon as you leave the platform. I know Zelda/Sheik gets this.

Okay, first of all, as far as we're concerned, Pokemon Trainer (the kid) does not exist. He's just a background decoration. Most people don't care Pokemon Trainer's feelings of negelct (there I said it), because you know what? He's not real. So why cater to some little doodad off in the distance who isn't even playable?

And less fatigue, think of it this way, it can't possibly make him worse can it? More damage, more knock-back, and more hit stun (I think), is ALWAYS better. It's mathematically impossible for it NOT to make Pokemon Trainer better than he is, you've got everything you had before, and a bonus. I'll take a more solid character over a more flawed gimmicky character any day. If you don't want to main just one Pokemon out of "guilt" or what have you, that's your business, but you can't use it as an argument for the actual utility of the character(s).

 

[Retro Gaming]

One idea is to let him have six pokemon, then have the KOd pokemon drop your stock and be taken out of the rotation for the remainder of the match. This would obviously reset if all 6 were ever KOd (for those scrubs that play with obscene amounts of stock).

You want Puff in your team because she insta-deaths characters like Ike around 60.

I like how you stole my "out-of-rotation" idea. It's definately possible that way, though. One of the event matches has it incorporated so it switches like that, and I always wondered why Sakurai didn't do that if he wanted to force the use of them as a team, instead of this "fatigue timer" thing.

Seriously, the fatigue timer is my least favorite part. If you had 120 attacks instead of a maximum of 120 attacks, then I might like it a little more.

 

[Steeler]

it would be interesting if a KOd pokemon were taken out of the rotation...you could switch before you lose your first stock to your worst pokemon, and then focus on a strategy between your best two (or just let them have a stock each).

 

[Retro Gaming]

it would be interesting if a KOd pokemon were taken out of the rotation...you could switch before you lose your first stock to your worst pokemon, and then focus on a strategy between your best two (or just let them have a stock each).

Or not. If this happens, this is how my matches versus Marth would look:

Lead with CHARIZARD
Switch to SQUIRTLE before death
IVYSAUR comes in (Maybe get CHARIZARD back in, but let IVYSAUR take the final blow)
Last stock to CHARIZARD

Pokemon Trainer could then truly adapt to any fight and he would be more difficult to counter-pick. But then again, maybe that will lead to a reliance.

 

[Brinzy]

Okay, first of all, as far as we're concerned, Pokemon Trainer (the kid) does not exist. He's just a background decoration. Most people don't care Pokemon Trainer's feelings of negelct (there I said it), because you know what? He's not real. So why cater to some little doodad off in the distance who isn't even playable?

And less fatigue, think of it this way, it can't possibly make him worse can it? More damage, more knock-back, and more hit stun (I think), is ALWAYS better. It's mathematically impossible for it NOT to make Pokemon Trainer better than he is, you've got everything you had before, and a bonus. I'll take a more solid character over a more flawed gimmicky character any day. If you don't want to main just one Pokemon out of "guilt" or what have you, that's your business, but you can't use it as an argument for the actual utility of the character(s).

What, you think I'm talking about the kid's actual feelings? You've got me twisted. I never, ever said that. "That defeats the whole purpose of Pokemon Trainer" did not mean that it defeats the purpose of the kid. It meant that Pokemon Trainer, THE WHOLE THING, is now just Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard, as three separate characters, and while there are people who would want this and it'd have its good sides, it'd do NOTHING for Pokemon Trainer (the one we have now) in terms of bettering him. It'd better the three Pokemon individually, sure, but match-ups don't go, "Oh, Squirtle has to retreat even though he has an advantage; that's a disadvantage, so removing this makes PT better!" Doesn't work that way... and if you think it does, then the opposite would obviously be true. If Ivysaur was the only one with an advantage in a fight and you had the ability to just use Ivysaur, then only Ivysaur will benefit, not Pokemon Trainer. PT can't take credit that way, at least not to me.

More damage and more knockback for PT himself would make him better, duh. Did I even mention damage and knockback in my post? No, no I did not. I only said that I'd want the fatigue thing to be done away with. If more damage and more knockback applies to everyone, then I would be bold enough to say that it'd hurt PT, as everyone would die faster (lolSquirtle), Ivysaur would be off the stage quicker, and Charizard... well, Charizard could dish it and take it. Sure, it'd help PT compared to what we have now, but a universal boost isn't something I'd be too hot on. More hitstun is a stupid thought for very obvious reasons, so let's get that out of our heads now.

Don't make assumptions about me. I wouldn't feel guilty if I wanted to main just Ivysaur - I DON'T want to main just Ivysaur, though. I also never once put down anyone who would want to main just one Pokemon either. I didn't stand here and chastise anyone for wanting to do this. My opinion is that it won't help PT, and I argued it. Personally, I would probably still play all three together - in other words, I was answering the thread topic and not arguing against any of you. Do not assume.

 

[infernovia]

The problem with your reasoning is this.

We do try to master each and every pokemon. But there are matches where we just don't want to use squirtle because of his range issues, or Ivysaur due to his edge issues or Charizard due to his combo issues. This is an inherent weakness of PT and fatigue really works against any advantage you get from having 3 chars in one. Also, if we don't manage our time carefully, we die. I mean wtf is up with that.

If PT was all about switching, the switch mechanic could have been better made and each pokemon could still have had a down b that did damage. But they didn't.

The point with Pokemon was always about using your pokemon in the right situation. And fatigue just makes that a gimmick instead of an actual technique. Its like forcing your spikes skarmory to fight an infernape. If fatigue is removed, and thats an if as there will be a lot more debate about this than tripping, would represent PT more.

 

[Brinzy]

Yes... did I not say that I wanted fatigue removed?

And I understand that there will be matches where you just don't want to use one or two of the three. However, I don't see how it'd be any different from the way matchups are done now. People base their fights against the three individual Pokemon, and sometimes they rate PT as a whole. I don't understand why PT would rise if you're not using PT, but just Charizard or Squirtle or Ivysaur. *Maybe* if you could use two of the three, but they're already rated individually in matchups, and they'd only be helping themselves. Not that it would be BAD, but it wouldn't do the character any good.

 

[Hydde]

NO.

Whats the point in using him then?. The cool thing is to be unique and have 3 chars on one....

if he loses this characteristic, he becomes like the rest...

 

[Onxy]

That's an idea only usable in a 3 stock match. What if it's 4 stock? Then what? Lol.

 

[Brinzy]

Pokemon Trainer himself runs into the match!

"Pokemon Trainer pays the opponent 68%! Pokemon Trainer blacked out!"

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I really wouldn't mind either option.

-Ter

 

[Retro Gaming]

That's an idea only usable in a 3 stock match. What if it's 4 stock? Then what? Lol.

All of the Pokemon are reset if you run out of useable Pokemon.

 

[Onxy]

Makes sense, but still kinda stupid IMO.

I like the idea of them not comming back after defeat, but them comming back makes it strange. How we have it now is the stupidest.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

What, you think I'm talking about the kid's actual feelings? You've got me twisted. I never, ever said that. "That defeats the whole purpose of Pokemon Trainer" did not mean that it defeats the purpose of the kid. It meant that Pokemon Trainer, THE WHOLE THING, is now just Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard, as three separate characters, and while there are people who would want this and it'd have its good sides, it'd do NOTHING for Pokemon Trainer (the one we have now) in terms of bettering him. It'd better the three Pokemon individually, sure, but match-ups don't go, "Oh, Squirtle has to retreat even though he has an advantage; that's a disadvantage, so removing this makes PT better!" Doesn't work that way... and if you think it does, then the opposite would obviously be true. If Ivysaur was the only one with an advantage in a fight and you had the ability to just use Ivysaur, then only Ivysaur will benefit, not Pokemon Trainer. PT can't take credit that way, at least not to me.

More damage and more knockback for PT himself would make him better, duh. Did I even mention damage and knockback in my post? No, no I did not. I only said that I'd want the fatigue thing to be done away with. If more damage and more knockback applies to everyone, then I would be bold enough to say that it'd hurt PT, as everyone would die faster (lolSquirtle), Ivysaur would be off the stage quicker, and Charizard... well, Charizard could dish it and take it. Sure, it'd help PT compared to what we have now, but a universal boost isn't something I'd be too hot on. More hitstun is a stupid thought for very obvious reasons, so let's get that out of our heads now.

Don't make assumptions about me. I wouldn't feel guilty if I wanted to main just Ivysaur - I DON'T want to main just Ivysaur, though. I also never once put down anyone who would want to main just one Pokemon either. I didn't stand here and chastise anyone for wanting to do this. My opinion is that it won't help PT, and I argued it. Personally, I would probably still play all three together - in other words, I was answering the thread topic and not arguing against any of you. Do not assume.

I am not following you. You keep saying it will make the Pokemon better but not Pokemon Trainer better. What exactly does that mean? The Pokemon ARE Pokemon Trainer. If they get better, "Pokemon Trainer" gets better.

note: since you referred to Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle, and "Pokemon trainer himself" individually I assumed you were talking about the kid.

 

[Retro Gaming]

He's saying that it would be viable to main just one Pokemon, thus splitting Pokemon Trainer into three different tier spots. Each Pokemon would go on to become better individually, but he feels that not many people would continue to use the Pokemon Trainer as a team. At least, that's what I got from it.

In my opinion, Sakurai did not think the stamina/fatigue thing out well. I think better options could have been arived at that wouldn't gimp you so severely but that still enforces a team out of Pokemon Trainer.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

He's saying that it would be viable to main just one Pokemon, thus splitting Pokemon Trainer into three different tier spots. Each Pokemon would go on to become better individually, but he feels that not many people would continue to use the Pokemon Trainer as a team. At least, that's what I got from it.

In my opinion, Sakurai did not think the stamina/fatigue thing out well. I think better options could have been arived at that wouldn't gimp you so severely but that still enforces a team out of Pokemon Trainer.

Perhaps the reason why people wouldn't continue using them as a team is because that playstyle just isn't all that effective in it's present form. Trying to force people into a certain style of play by punishing them doesn't make that style better, it just makes the individual playstyle worse. Regardless, without fatigue the "net worth" of the Pokemon trainer team would still increase, regardless of how you choose to play them (as a team or individually), the switching style would still benefit. It's a win/win.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Not really. If fatigue and switching on death were removed, then the team style would suffer severely. If both were removed, then Pokemon Trainer would transform into a "Use the best Pokemon in the match-up only." It would make counter-picking the Pokemon Trainer player more difficult (At-least, if they learned to use all three well) but I find it unlikely that switching within a match would happen often. You're correct on the fact that the current application just makes the style too forced, though. I think a less aggresive style of fatigue (No stamina timer) is a step in the right direction.

 

[Brinzy]

He's saying that it would be viable to main just one Pokemon, thus splitting Pokemon Trainer into three different tier spots. Each Pokemon would go on to become better individually, but he feels that not many people would continue to use the Pokemon Trainer as a team. At least, that's what I got from it.

Yes, exactly.

 

[Steeler]

squirtle wouldn't do so hot by himself, i don't think. :s

 

[Brinzy]

Well, maybe he wouldn't, since I can't really think of match-ups that are just for him.