Would it be best if this was the end of the line for Smash?

[Saikyoshi]

We already know Smash 4's development was... troubled. Sakurai was permanently injured in February 2013, and is most definitely going to retire this time. This is coupled with the various concerns he's expressed over the roster, and the fact that quite a few fans feel the series gets worse with each entry - not the majority by any means, but a noticeable number. So would it be a good thing if this was the end?

Pros and cons of ending the series:

• 
  
  Pros:
  • Sakurai is most definitely not going to supervise Smash 5 if there is one, so the quality of a sequel is uncertain.
  • The roster is getting very, very large, so the discussion has turned from "which newcomers should be put in" to "which veterans shouldn't be cut" for the sake of development time. Large numbers of people are going to get upset.
  
  Cons:
  • There is a possibility of Sakurai's successor potentially turning things around.
  • Many people are unsatisfied with Smash 4 or feel that it's incomplete, especially with the announcements that there would be no more DLC or balance patches.
  • And of course, if the series ended, there'd be no more Super Smash Bros.
  
  I want to hear your thoughts.

 

[Munomario777]

New Smash game > no new Smash game. So no.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

I don't see why it would be a good thing. Unlike an online game like League of Legends where update patches change the game and you can't go back to an older patch, each Smash game can be played at once. If, in a hypothetical, Sakurai retired and Smash5 was a disaster, everybody can just play the older Smash Bros and still be fine.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I don't see why it would be a good thing. Unlike an online game like League of Legends where update patches change the game and you can't go back to an older patch, each Smash game can be played at once. If, in a hypothetical, Sakurai retired and Smash5 was a disaster, everybody can just play the older Smash Bros and still be fine.

Not true. Support for Brawl (and, by extension, P:M) ended this past June. The same thing will happen to the Wii U eventually.

 

[Munomario777]

Not true. Support for Brawl (and, by extension, P:M) ended this past June. The same thing will happen to the Wii U eventually.

Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't play it anymore (couch play exists, and even still, I imagine something like Dolphin will come around for Wii U eventually; that or custom servers like they're doing with Mario Kart Wii's CTGP).

 

[Saikyoshi]

Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't play it anymore (couch play exists, and even still, I imagine something like Dolphin will come around for Wii U eventually; that or custom servers like they're doing with Mario Kart Wii's CTGP).

I never understood the logic of using emulators to keep older scenes alive. Even if you own the original, that's still arguably piracy, and no matter how you or I see it, it's something Nintendo would never allow to break from the underground. This is also why I feel Melee's competitive days are numbered - lack of legal supply. Nobody can hold a tournament if nobody has the game, and if someone tried to bring Dolphin into, say, EVO, that would bring about nothing short of catastrophe.

This is just a case scenario of how age can destroy a game. I'm not talking about competitive play specifically.

 

[Munomario777]

I never understood the logic of using emulators to keep older scenes alive. Even if you own the original, that's still arguably piracy, and no matter how you or I see it, it's something Nintendo would never allow to break from the underground. This is also why I feel Melee's competitive days are numbered - lack of legal supply. Nobody can hold a tournament if nobody has the game, and if someone tried to bring Dolphin into, say, EVO, that would bring about nothing short of catastrophe.

Using a mod to connect to custom servers rather than Nintendo's (like MKWii CTGP or P:M, which require the base game) isn't piracy, and I think it's morally justified if you own the original to use an emulator (especially if it's been discontinued, which Mario Kart Wii has been, or if the service it's replicating has been discontinued, which is true with Nintendo WFC).

 

[SuaveChaser]

I just want someone new to take over smash.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Using a mod to connect to custom servers rather than Nintendo's (like MKWii CTGP or P:M, which require the base game) isn't piracy, and I think it's morally justified if you own the original to use an emulator (especially if it's been discontinued, which Mario Kart Wii has been, or if the service it's replicating has been discontinued, which is true with Nintendo WFC).

Like I said, no matter your personal stance, I'm just saying the scenes of emulator- and mod-only games are restricted to the underground by their very nature. Nintendo would not approve if a Dolphin or similar scene garnered significant attention.

 

[Munomario777]

Like I said, no matter your personal stance, I'm just saying the scenes of emulator- and mod-only games are restricted to the underground by their very nature. Nintendo would not approve if a Dolphin or similar scene garnered significant attention.

Well, the games aren't emulator-/mod-only. I could turn on my Wii U, pop in Brawl, and play right now if I wanted. Same with MKWii. Also, Dolphin has garnered quite a bit of attention; it's one of, if not the most, popular Gamecube/Wii emulators out there. Sure, Nintendo might not approve, but that doesn't mean they'll stop it.

Anyway, getting back to the topic at hand, I think we can all agree that having a new Smash game is better than not having a new Smash game (unless you really hate Smash existing for some reason).

 

[Saikyoshi]

What we haven't discussed at all is what I'm most concerned about; the second point under "Pros". Namely, that the roster, as stated by Sakurai himself multiple times, is in danger of significant cuts in future installments. That would taint the series in my eyes.

 

[Munomario777]

What we haven't discussed at all is what I'm most concerned about; the second point under "Pros". Namely, that the roster, as stated by Sakurai himself multiple times, is in danger of significant cuts in future installments. That would taint the series in my eyes.

Well, still, new Smash game with cut vets > no Smash game at all. I'd hate if a lot of vets got cut, of course, but I'd rather have that than no new games at all in the future.

 

[neohopeSTF]

Smash will be there when Nintendo makes a new console and handheld. (Since Smash 3DS is doing so well I assume future smash games will always be split up into console/handheld version, unless rumors about the next Nintendo console being a hybrid of both is true)

 

[Kaladin]

The new smash game *could* be good. If it were not made, we are missing out on a game that *could* be good. If it weren't good, we could keep playing sm4sh, brawl, and melee. No real disadvantages. Therefore, it should not stop here.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Well, still, new Smash game with cut vets > no Smash game at all. I'd hate if a lot of vets got cut, of course, but I'd rather have that than no new games at all in the future.

And that's where our difference of opinion lies. I don't think anyone should be cut, ever. And if a large number of characters end up cut, the game just wouldn't feel right. It'd just be a hollow shell.

 

[Munomario777]

And that's where our difference of opinion lies. I don't think anyone should be cut, ever. And if a large number of characters end up cut, the game just wouldn't feel right. It'd just be a hollow shell.

I don't think characters should be cut either; I just said that in the previous post. I'm saying that I'd rather have a Smash game with some cut characters than no Smash game at all (but I'd rather have a Smash game with all the veterans than one where they're cut, of course). It would feel even less right if Nintendo's next console didn't have a Smash game.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I dunno how people can be disappointed with Smash 4. Its Fantastic

Not Perfect but damn is it a nice change from brawl.

 

[Vaidya]

Eh competitive elitists are a minority. Their opinion doesn't matter XD

 

[ernesth200]

I'd be totally fine with it. I mean we can always simply add to Project M if there's no more Smash Games after this. Plus we won't need a new Smash game for a good 8-10 years or whatever the gap between this and Brawl was so we got a while to go before we really have to worry about it.

 

[ChikoLad]

I never understood the logic of using emulators to keep older scenes alive. Even if you own the original, that's still arguably piracy, and no matter how you or I see it, it's something Nintendo would never allow to break from the underground. This is also why I feel Melee's competitive days are numbered - lack of legal supply. Nobody can hold a tournament if nobody has the game, and if someone tried to bring Dolphin into, say, EVO, that would bring about nothing short of catastrophe.

This is just a case scenario of how age can destroy a game. I'm not talking about competitive play specifically.

It's not really piracy if the game is no longer stocked as new in stores.

 

[Drippy]

Damn this is a tough question. I really don't want Smash Bros to end just because well I'm really attached to the game but I honestly can't think of many good reasons why it shouldn't end. I mainly would just like a more competitive version of the game and characters from other games if they were to continue but those are selfish reasons.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Challenge-wise, Smash Wii U really went overboard with the hard challenges.

Not even Brawl had that many hard challenges, and the only Golden Hammer immune challenges were the ones where the rewards are affiliated with the Subspace Emissary.

Anyway, I'd hate to think about how evil Smash 5's challenges will be if one was ever planned to be made.

 

[Schnee117]

Wii U online support will eventually be cut.
If Sakurai is to be believed then there's no more patches or DLC coming for the game so we'll soon have everyone playing certain characters because of the tier placement.
Trash Tour's existence
Smash is a huge money maker

Long story short:
No. Ending isn't the best.

 

[EZdelFresco]

Melee was supposed to be the last smash, then brawl was intended to be according to Sakurai. As long as Nintendo continues to develop consoles, there will be a smash bros game to accompany it as some point. The fans wouldn't have it any other way. And besides, this isn't something we get yearly like COD or NBA 2K so the feeling of a new smash can still feel fresh with each release. I don't understand how fans of the series can see getting a new entry every 5-7 years or so as a bad thing.

 

[Saikyoshi]

It's not really piracy if the game is no longer stocked as new in stores.

That's not how Nintendo sees it.

Again, I'm not talking about anyone's personal stance.

Melee was supposed to be the last smash, then brawl was intended to be according to Sakurai. As long as Nintendo continues to develop consoles, there will be a smash bros game to accompany it as some point. The fans wouldn't have it any other way. And besides, this isn't something we get yearly like COD or NBA 2K so the feeling of a new smash can still feel fresh with each release. I don't understand how fans of the series can see getting a new entry every 5-7 years or so as a bad thing.

Each new Smash has already seen no end of trouble from its fanbase due to perceived flaws. Now, say a hypothetical Smash 5 REALLY messed up. Something that would leave almost nobody defending it... Like cutting a significant number of veterans.

If something like that happened, I think we would prefer no game at all to a bad game that taints the series' memory. Sonic still isn't over '06. Metroid still isn't over Other M. And if Smash 5 screwed up, we wouldn't be over that half a decade later, either.

 

[ChikoLad]

That's not how Nintendo sees it.

Again, I'm not talking about anyone's personal stance.

Do you have a source for that? Because I don't see Nintendo doing anything about all of the emulators and ROMs and ISOs for older games and systems.

Nintendo don't really care about you pirating obsolete games because the only way to play them "legitimately" these days is to buy it on eBay in which case Nintendo doesn't benefit at all, or to have had bought it when it was originally released, when they could make a profit.

I'm not saying they will encourage it but they are not gonna send a SWAT team to your door either.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do you have a source for that? Because I don't see Nintendo doing anything about all of the emulators and ROMs and ISOs for older games and systems.

Nintendo don't really care about you pirating obsolete games because the only way to play them "legitimately" these days is to buy it on eBay in which case Nintendo doesn't benefit at all, or to have had bought it when it was originally released, when they could make a profit.

I'm not saying they will encourage it but they are not gonna send a SWAT team to your door either.

Frankly, if it's not on the VC and they have no plans for it, why would they even care? They can't make money off of it. Now, if they can, I can see them caring about that particular game, rspectively.

------------------------------

As for this, no, I do not think it'll stop with the sequels. For oen thing, cutting characters has not severely affected the fanbase by any means. We lost 6 characters going into Smash 4. 7 if you directly count Pokemon Trainer himself separately. We lost 4 going into Brawl(with only one blatantly replaced, being Young Link for Toon Link. We lost Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, and Pichu), and none going into Melee. Despite this, the games are still loved overall. We've dealt with lost characters. And we're only losing 5 with Mewtwo returning to 4. The series will go on even if they hire someone new to take over from Sakurai, which has a fair chance of happening. Sakurai seems to be at his limit, and his injuries don't help. I think he still should be able to somewhat help oversee it. If only to make sure it transitions into Smash 5 successfully without completely losing the feel of each character's playstyle. I expect changes, but more balance than "completely different and balanced". Each character does feel similar to their previous selves to a degree. Some more than others. I like this because it makes it easy to adapt to each new game.

 

[Munomario777]

Each new Smash has already seen no end of trouble from its fanbase due to perceived flaws. Now, say a hypothetical Smash 5 REALLY messed up. Something that would leave almost nobody defending it... Like cutting a significant number of veterans.

Is there any indication that something like that would actually happen anyway? It's more likely than not that the next Smash will be great; it's a steady trend in the series.

If something like that happened, I think we would prefer no game at all to a bad game that taints the series' memory.

One bad game wouldn't taint the memory of the great games that came before it.

Sonic still isn't over '06.

Spoiler: Big images

You were saying?

Metroid still isn't over Other M.

That's only because there hasn't been news about a sequel yet.

And if Smash 5 screwed up, we wouldn't be over that half a decade later, either.

Unless the next game was great. Or, you know, people just went back to the good ones. Say the new Smash stinks. Oh well, we still have four (or five, counting Wii U and 3DS separately) great, other games to play.

 

[Schnee117]

Spoiler: Big images

You were saying?

Lost World was mediocre at best and Sonic Boom exists with countless comparisons to 06. Plus people will always remember 06 for being a glitchy mess among other things to "celebrate" Sonic's 15th anniversary.

That's only because there hasn't been news about a sequel yet.

Aside from the part where they said they had ideas for Wii U and 3DS Metroid games at E3. That's about as close as it get's to news. Even so people won't get over the plotholes in the story, the awful writing, Samus wetting herself when seeing Ridley for the bazillionth time. If Other M was going to work it should have been a prequel to the entire series (aside from the Manga). Authorization would've made sense, the Ridley encounter, Samus' reason for leaving the federation (It can still be the bio-weapons. Just cut Roidley's existence and keep the normal Ridley) etc.
And now I've gotten derailed about how other M could've worked.

Point is: People don't forgive and forget that easily.

Replies in quote.

Each new Smash has already seen no end of trouble from its fanbase due to perceived flaws. Now, say a hypothetical Smash 5 REALLY messed up. Something that would leave almost nobody defending it... Like cutting a significant number of veterans.

I'm pretty sure that unless the developers go on the same crack that Sonic Team seems to take every now and then, that won't happen.

 

[Munomario777]

Replies in quote.

I liked Lost World (it's different, but still fun; it's a love-it-or-hate-it game), and you're ignoring Colors and Generations. Sonic Boom is a spinoff series, made by a Western team while the main Sonic Team works on their next big project. Sonic isn't tainted by Sonic Boom; Sonic Boom is tainted by Rise of Lyric (and Shattered Crystal, but to a lesser degree). As for Sonic 2006, Sonic has recovered, as shown by Colors and Generations, and only people who are stuck in the past will think Sonic 2006 is the current Sonic.

Exactly. Other M seems like it ruined the series because there hasn't been a new game yet to cover it up. Once there's a new good game, Other M will fade away as just a fluke.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I liked Lost World (it's different, but still fun; it's a love-it-or-hate-it game), and you're ignoring Colors and Generations. Sonic Boom is a spinoff series, made by a Western team while the main Sonic Team works on their next big project. Sonic isn't tainted by Sonic Boom; Sonic Boom is tainted by Rise of Lyric (and Shattered Crystal, but to a lesser degree). As for Sonic 2006, Sonic has recovered, as shown by Colors and Generations, and only people who are stuck in the past will think Sonic 2006 is the current Sonic.

Exactly. Other M seems like it ruined the series because there hasn't been a new game yet to cover it up. Once there's a new good game, Other M will fade away as just a fluke.

With Sonic, I'm talking in terms of reputation. Colors, Generations, and Lost World are still largely overshadowed by '06 in a lot of peoples' eyes.

Honestly, I still have to be reminded that Colors even exists.

As for Metroid, there hasn't been news of a sequel BECAUSE of Other M's colossal failure. It killed the series.

Is there any indication that something like that would actually happen anyway? It's more likely than not that the next Smash will be great; it's a steady trend in the series.

One bad game wouldn't taint the memory of the great games that came before it.

Spoiler: Big images

You were saying?

That's only because there hasn't been news about a sequel yet.

Unless the next game was great. Or, you know, people just went back to the good ones. Say the new Smash stinks. Oh well, we still have four (or five, counting Wii U and 3DS separately) great, other games to play.

And as for the indication something like this will happen, Sakurai has stated on several occasions that the next game, if there is one, will face a large amount of cuts because the roster is getting too large to completely reprogram.

 

[Munomario777]

With Sonic, I'm talking in terms of reputation. Colors, Generations, and Lost World are still largely overshadowed by '06 in a lot of peoples' eyes.
And as for the indication something like this will happen, Sakurai has stated on several occasions that the next game, if there is one, will face a large amount of cuts because the roster is getting too large to completely reprogram.

Those people are, again, stuck in the past and can't get over one bad game. That's their fault.
Source please? Also, it's likely that Sakurai won't work on the next game anyway (you said this yourself), so this doesn't really guarantee anything.

 

[Schnee117]

With Sonic, I'm talking in terms of reputation. Colors, Generations, and Lost World are still largely overshadowed by '06 in a lot of peoples' eyes.

Honestly, I still have to be reminded that Colors even exists.

As for Metroid, there hasn't been news of a sequel BECAUSE of Other M's colossal failure. It killed the series.

I refer you to the fact that Metroid games for the Wii U and 3DS were said to be in the process of having ideas at E3

And as for the indication something like this will happen, Sakurai has stated on several occasions that the next game, if there is one, will face a large amount of cuts because the roster is getting too large to completely reprogram.

Sakurai is a fickle fellow though. He didn't add Villager in Brawl because he couldn't think of a moveset back then. Villager was then the first newcomer shown for SSB4.
Ridley as well. "If we'd tried harder we might have gotten him in" for Brawl. Then there's "Accurate Portrayal" and "Small Wings won't be right" BS for SSB4.

Are there any guarantees Sakurai will even return?

 

[Raijinken]

More Smash is always fine with me. But if they end it here, I'd like for them to keep the series playable on newer systems through downloads/backwards compatibility.

 

[JSG]

If the next Smash were to be under somebody that isn't Sakurai, then yeah, I could definitely see both welcome and unwelcome changes to the game overall. Personally, I find it hard to imagine how this addition can be trumped, especially considering this generation of video games is probably the best it can ever be now (the best graphics and hardware, many innovations, and every gimmick you could think of).

I'd be fine if this was the last one, but I'd love to see more. But with DLC still up in the air and Melee/PM still very strong and alive communities, Smash 4 being the last would be fine. It would definitely finish off on a good note for me, at least.

 

[_gold_]

Nintendo will be making Smash for a very long time, with or without Sakurai. It's a money-maker and a console-seller. Also a great series.

 

[RespawningJesus]

With Sonic, I'm talking in terms of reputation. Colors, Generations, and Lost World are still largely overshadowed by '06 in a lot of peoples' eyes.

Honestly, I still have to be reminded that Colors even exists.

As for Metroid, there hasn't been news of a sequel BECAUSE of Other M's colossal failure. It killed the series.

I wouldn't say it killed the series, considering the fact this has been the first time ever that Metroid has really failed. Mario games have failed, Zelda games have failed, but they keep going strong because they release newer titles frequently, and are beloved amongst gamers far and wide. Metroid can recover.

Sonic on the other hand, has never really been able to stay consistent with their 3D games, and the divide between 3D and 2D Sonic has just made Sonic's shortcomings louder, making it very difficult to recover from.

As for a new Smash? Hell yeah we are going to get one, since Nintendo needs the money for their home consoles.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Personally, I think what fans are most aching for is a plethora of other crossover Nintendo IP games. It seems that with partnerships such as Pokemon/Tekken, Hyrule Warriors, and even the assorted cast and stages of Mario Kart Wii U, Nintendo may be getting a better picture of he fact that their strongest asset lies in their immensely populr and recognizable IPs.

I'm all for a new game with Nintendo's all stars being used in quirky ways, in addition or in supplementation of Smash.

 

[Sir_Zedd]

Smash will come out on every Nintendo home console with or without Sakurai. It pretty much prints money.

 

[Altea77]

This is a question that needs to stop being asked. No Smash shouldn't end. This isn't a game with a deep story that needs to come to a close, like say Halo. This is a party fighter game. There is absolutely no reason why it should end now, or any time in the near future. It is a console seller. Every Nintendo console needs a Smash game just like every home needs a refrigerator. If Sakurai doesn't want to make it, someone else at Nintendo will.

And why would characters be cut? The next console will have even more space for characters than this one. There being a large roster in smash 4 means absolutely nothing for the size of future rosters. New consoles mean more powerful consoles. Why do you think every smash game has had more characters than the last one? I don't see why that would change now.