World 8 - 2: Mario vs Diddy Kong Match-Up Thread

[HeroMystic]

Vs Diddy Kong

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Match-Up Summary

Under Discussion

Ratio:

Counterpick Stages:

 

[Anuran]

this match up seems pretty dependent on who gets the first grab. Also how good the mario item/cape game is.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Stock lead is huge in this matchup because if you manage to survive to percents where Diddy can't combo you with D-throw U-air, the matchup actually becomes significantly easier, and with Rage, Mario can easily start up more frame tight combo strings to secure a bigger lead.

That being said, Diddy has dumb tilts, generally huge damage from all his throws, a 6 frame F-air that does 12%, and his killer 3 frame U-air (which does have the ability to interrupt Mario's low% strings). He also benefits from the usual item toss related shenanigans and Bananas being strong trapping tools, but everyone already knew that.

Make sure to N-air him out of his Up-B if you have the chance for easy gimps.

 

[M@v]

"Down throw combos into aerials for you? That's adorable, because my downthrow combos in basically anything <3"

 

[ChefKef]

As Mario, I have little trouble with the Hoo-Hah unless I DI poorly, but I have a question that I can't test due to me not having anyone around that could help me test this, can Nair and Dair beat out Diddy's Uair?

 

[HeroMystic]

They do not.

 

[-Sensei-]

I feel like Mario's mobility really helps in this matchup. Just remember to DI the hoo-hah correctly (straight up at low percents, up and away from Diddy at high percents). Not sure on a ratio.

 

[Luigi player]

MU discussions this early in the games life are really difficult imo.
From playing the MU it feels kinda even though.
Mario can combo like Diddy and can easily catch him in the air with upBs and uairs. And he can also catch any landing with usmash. Mario can gimp Diddy with ease if Diddy ever has to use upB from below the stage because of nair.
And generally it's difficult to catch Mario because of his mobility together with his quick and almost lagless aerials.

 

[HeroMystic]

MU discussions this early in the games life are really difficult imo.

This is fine. MU discussions at this point is learning what each character can do. I wouldn't worry about ratios at the moment, just say if you feel either character has the advantage or not.

That said, I personally feel Mario is on the backfoot this MU because Diddy's neutrals are godlike. Mario can punish anything he throws out but with the exceptions of low% grabs I can't see Mario making the first move, and if Diddy lands a hit he'll run away with it.

I've personally been getting better with fighting Diddy, but it truly is a matter of matching Diddy's aggressive speed and covering yourself with as many hitboxes as possible.

 

[ChefKef]

I don't really have too much experience w/ Diddy, but I imagine the best opening is ranging Diddy with fireballs, and baiting some of his more laggy ground attacks (f tilt, etc.) and capitalizing on that lag. Anyone have some experience that this is a good/bad idea?

 

[- Theelitebrawler -]

I don't really have too much experience w/ Diddy, but I imagine the best opening is ranging Diddy with fireballs, and baiting some of his more laggy ground attacks (f tilt, etc.) and capitalizing on that lag. Anyone have some experience that this is a good/bad idea?

Diddy's ftilt/aerials have no lag so...

 

[HeroMystic]

I wouldn't recommend spamming fireballs this match because Diddy can just use Monkey Flip to counter.

This MU you should really be getting up close and personal at the very beginning. Only fireball to help you get closer.

 

[-Sensei-]

If I remember correctly, Ally used Mario in a set against M2k's Diddy and he barely used any fireballs.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I'd say mario has the advantage right in diddys face.

Mario has a 2 frame jab compared to diddy's 3 framer, which can enable a nice frame trap mixup game up close and also get those scramble hits.
At high percentage it isn't advisable to go grab for grab with this character (Hoo hah into death of course). But in a low % situation Mario can get lots of damage off of down and upthrow on diddy, I'd say grabs are more advisable early on. Especially if you can scare diddy away from the grab with your jab and d-tilt, then opportunities for grabs open themselves up.
Up-b out of shield is good against diddy as a reversal GTFO option when you are losing momentum. Of course just use it on guaranteed punishes (3 frame startup for upB if you're frame oriented) or good reads.


In tilt range I'd say diddy has advantage here.
All of Mario's tilts start up in 5 frames and won't really be punished at Max range by diddy but are still inadvisable because diddy's d-tilt is faster (4 frame startup) and has annoying properties (can combo into itself, 20% trip rate).
But diddy's real pressure at this range comes from SH-fair. It can keep you in place. and be really inconvenient if Diddy has a banana in hand. Ideally as a mario you'd want to perfect shield this move and then punish with rising u-air. or up tilt But I mean you'd have to practice that punish. Crouch is a good option here at this range as well to just avoid and punish aerials that aren't impeccably spaced.

Also monkey flip at this range (and further back) is obviously a good move to punish shields and countering it is difficult. You ideally should react with a quick uptilt or up-angled f-tilt.
Currently I use some janky tech against monkey flip, when i'm in my shield and I see the startup I Short Hop Air dodge to dodge the attack and then DI to follow Diddy and punish with U-Air or Bair. Short Hop -> Air Dodge enables you to get cancel the landing lag on your bair and your up-air and also get the hitbox out really low to the ground. Even if Diddy travels out of your range you'll be safe and probably have center positioning on stage.

And at the long range Diddy controls space with his peels and his faster walk and dash speed. I'd say Mario's fireballs and diddy's peanuts are both all right but neither projectile is really critical to the matchup. But if Diddy doesn't have to approach he can keep Mario out pretty effectively.

And generally (in all vs diddy matchups) I feel like you have to focus on gimping diddy and catching his projectiles. I would say Mario can do a pretty good job at edgeguarding but there's no simple, intuitive way to do it, you just gotta get some practice in gimping him. Same thing with item catching, its kind of a general skill but very important in this matchup.

I'd say the keys to this matchup are capitalizing on your opportunities (successfully stuffing Up-B recovery and maximizing damage on grabs you get) and really keeping the pressure up when you're in there. Diddy doesn't have particularly good defensive options but can really wall you out and prevent you from getting started if you're playing from a stock/percentage deficit.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm pretty convinced right now this matchup is 6/4 Diddy's favor unless he manages to somehow throw away the first stock, in which case Mario can snowball an advantage with Rage actually fairly easily.

Mario has to give way too much respect to Diddy's F-air and U-air in neutral for this to be a remotely favorable matchup... Keeping in mind because Diddy's U-air is frame 3, he actually has a very easy time interrupting a lot of Mario's low% strings.

One of the other big problems in this matchup is Diddy walks and runs faster than Mario, and has better range tilts and grab than he does. Just...honestly. The extent to which he outspaces Mario in neutral is actually really disgusting. He's also a short character making it difficult to space aerials against him on the ground to get around his grounded pokes.

The only reason this matchup is remotely winnable is edgeguarding and snowballing a Rage lead. But it's pretty clearly in Diddy's favor. He's shorter than Mario, has better spacing tools than him, and his reward off throws, D-tilt, and banana traps is applicable at greater ranges than what Mario is capable of from D-throw.

 

[Incendiary]

Just to throw some stuff out there

If you get the down grab at low percents and begin to utilt, diddy can uair out of it after the first utilt. You really have to have good reaction time or just flat out guess the uair is coming. If that's the case then shield regrab, repeat. I caught Denti off guard and did this twice before I ended it with an up b(sill lost the match though lol). Also if you end the string early and upb, you are susceptible to getting a nice fair from Diddy because the knockback is enough to keep him away from you while you're trying to recover from the up b.

I"m pretty sure most people saw diddys on the apex stream create a wall of short hop fairs(zerozerozero). This makes it extremely difficult for Mario to approach. I'm pretty sure most of us have experienced this. Full hop fireballs will hit and will hopefully keep him more grounded. When you full hop and land after fireball the end lag is pretty much non existent. I would limit this or mix it up with short hop fireballs because it's almost never good to be above diddy. Also there is an opportunity to fludd him mid-air to get under diddy where he is vulnerable.

Diddy has the best dtilt in the game. At low percents he can dtilt you to about 20s?(someone help me out with this) and can also follow up with fair and uair at higher percents. As if he doesn't already have enough kill set ups lol. When you shield a fsmash he can instantly dtilt you to prevent punishing :~~(. I haven't tested it out yet but up b'ing gets out out of the dtilt lock?

This match up is also dependent on your cape and fludd game. To me I think his recovery is gimp fodder for Mario. Vertically his up b is done in by nair, bair and fludd. Horizontally might be a little tougher with the up b, caping the side b is easy but if you haven't practiced it enough you'll end up reking urself. It's still early in the game, bu once everyone gets the timing down. Im positive we can find some relief in this match up