(WIP) Monado Art's stats affect Items

Masonomace · Oct 28, 2014

This thread is for educational purposes about the Monado arts & how they perform when used together with items spawned in a match including character-summoned items. In a way, the Monado arts can be compared to as 5 built-in Status items, altering your stats for an amount of time. One example being the Bunny Hood item sharing similar stat increases to both Monado Jump & Monado Speed. Another being the Metal Box item sharing a similar trait with Monado Shield for heavily reducing the knockback received. Overall, It can be advantageous to know what the arts & items do together that affects Shulk when holding items or being against items with a certain art activated. Here's a brief description about each type of item:

Battering -- Few of these work well with Monado Jump & Monado Speed, but mostly is a item class fit for Monado Buster & Monado Smash
Collectibles -- Monado Jump & Monado Speed aid you better for picking them up
Container -- Monado Buster destroys them quicker & Monado Smash launches them farther
Recovery -- Monado Jump & Monado Speed aid you better for picking them up
Special -- Monado Jump, Monado Speed, & Monado Shield alter their mobility, but sometimes arts do nothing for them
Shooting -- Monado Jump, Monado Speed, & Monado Shield only affect your mobility when shooting
Status -- Monado Jump, Monado Speed, & Monado Shield affect them, but some won't always stack with the art's effects
Summoning -- Monado Jump, Monado Speed, & Monado Shield affect mobility. Monado Buster or Monado Smash against summons defeat them faster or slower
Throwing -- Monado Speed's mechanics perform well with items thrown. Monado Buster or Monado Smash active with Vision against items thrown deal great damage or knockback
Transformation -- Monado Jump, Monado Speed, & Monado Shield affect Bullet Bill's torpedo ricochet movement after reverting back

Key
-Jump height: the height reached through jumping, mostly affected by a Short Hop, Full Hop, Doublejump, & ledge-jump
-Air speed: the distance traveled moving left or right while in midair
-Fall speed: the distance traveled moving downwards in midair
-Air Slash height: how high Shulk travels when using his Air Slash, Advancing Air Slash, & Mighty Air Slash
-Damage taken: the resistance to taking regular damage
-Ground speed: how fast you move through a grounded movement option. Mostly affects dashing, walking, & running
-Traction: a measure of how long it takes to stop moving from a sideways force when grounded
-Damage dealt: attacking an opponent's hurt-box or their bubble shield. More damage also deals greater shield knockback
-Knockback taken: the amount of knockback the user resists against an attack
-Shield health: the amount of HP your bubble shield has
-Shield regeneration: the rate of HP your bubble shield regenerates per second
-Knockback dealt: the amount of knockback your attack deals to an opponent's hurt-box

Battering Items
Summary: All battering items change your Jab, F-tilt, Dash Attack, & F-smash to an item strike, but you lose the ability to use U-smash while dashing or running. The only way to U-smash during your dash or running is by canceling your jump in the process, pivoting to the opposite direction first then canceling your jump with U-smash, or during the skid animation. Although, there is a way to use your own F-tilt input while holding a Battering item. Have your C-stick set to Attack & hold down the control stick to crouch, then flick your C-stick in the direction Shulk's facing. If done correctly, Shulk will do a FTilt while holding a Battering item.

Like all battering items, they can be thrown too. However, most of the time with most battering items, it's wise to hold onto them for attacking rather than to throw them away. Some Battering items thrown to hit other fighters are impressive like the Star Rod or the Home-Run Bat, but usually you don't want to throw it away until you've gotten a good use out of it's melee range first.

Art Summary:
Jump art doesn't really change your game-plan all that much.
Speed art's reduced damage plays a negative role in your safety on-block, but your pivot advantages become superior with spacing.
Shield art's reduced damage plays a negative role in your safety on-block, & your movement is very poor yet oddly gives you a better ground-control for your pivot Ftilt item strikes.
Buster art is the most important art of all, as your safety on-shield is much superior.
Smash art is the second most important art for when you shift a focus to being more fishy with killing, which isn't risky to do thanks to the range & frame data of these battering items.

Summary: Arguably one of the longest ranged weapons, this item increases your range depending on the input you press. If you ever get your hands on a Beam Sword as Shulk, keep it! Your Jab item slash has longer range than our Jab1 DTilt or FTilt & has very low endlag. It's even faster than our Frame 5 Jab! The FTilt item slash has longer range than FSmash's 2nd hit & less endlag than our own FTilt, but DTilt finishes quicker. The Dash Attack item slash is faster & has less endlag than our own Dash Attack! The FSmash item slash has less endlag than our own FSmash, although our 1st hit of FSmash comes out faster than the FSmash item slash. Still, it's better to be hitting with the Beam Sword FSmash sourspot because it's longer range & more damage.

Move | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg.
Jab1 | 4-5 | 26 | 4.5/4
Forward tilt | 8-9 | 38 | 9/8
Dash attack | 7-9 | 45 | 7/8
Dash attack (Late) | 10-13 | | 5.5
Fsmash | 15 | 52 | 14/13

Summary: Fire Bar starts with 5 fireballs on the block handle that deal flame damage & when you hit someone, the fire balls decrease thus decreasing your range, but the knockback increases. For every two successive hits, one fireball will vanish, which hitting 8 times with the Fire Bar will remain with one fireball. Throwing this item won't reduce the fireball count but the throwing damage will be affected by the amount of fireballs still burning.

No matter how many fireballs remain, Shulk's Dash attack item strike has the farthest reach out of a standing position, F-tilt item strike range has the 2nd farthest range, Jab item strike has the 3rd farthest reach, & the F-smash item strike has the least range out of the four.

Move | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg.
Jab1 (5 fireballs) | 4-5 | 26 | 9/~8/8/7?
Jab1 (4 fireballs) | 4-5 | 26 | 9/~8/8/7?
Jab1 (3 fireballs) | 4-5 | 26 | 9/~8/8?
Jab1 (2 fireballs) | 4-5 | 26 | 9/~8?
Jab1 (1 fireball) | 4-5 | 26 | 9
Dash Attack (5 fireballs) | 7-9 | 45 | 16/14/12?
Dash Attack (4 fireballs) | 7-9 | 45 | 16/14/12?
Dash Attack (3 fireballs) | 7-9 | 45 | 16/14/12?
Dash Attack (2 fireballs) | 7-9 | 45 | 16/14/12?
Dash Attack (1 fireball) | 7-9 | 45 | ~13.4
Dash Attack (Late 5 fireballs) | 10-13 | 45 | ?
Dash Attack (Late 4 fireballs) | 10-13 | 45 | ?
Dash Attack (Late 3 fireballs) | 10-13 | 45 | ?
Dash Attack (Late 2 fireballs) | 10-13 | 45 | ?
Dash Attack (Late 1 fireball) | 10-13 | 45 | ~9
Ftilt (5 fireballs) | 8 | 38 | ?
Ftilt (4 fireballs) | 8 | 38 | ?
Ftilt (3 fireballs) | 8 | 38 | ?
Ftilt (2 fireballs) | 8 | 38 | ?
Ftilt (1 fireball) | 8 | 38 | ~14
Fsmash (5 fireballs) | 15 | 52 | ?
Fsmash (4 fireballs) | 15 | 52 | ?
Fsmash (3 fireballs) | 15 | 52 | ?
Fsmash (2 fireballs) | 15 | 52 | ?
Fsmash (1 fireball) | 15 | 52 | 19

Summary: Known widely for it's OHKO potential, the F-smash input is formidable given that you hit something. It's one of the few Battering items that deals great damage when thrown, so it's all-around a good item to have in possession. And it deals more knockback when hitting with the Tip of the Bat. Best of all, the F-smash hit OHKO's no matter what. . .or does it?

Move | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg.
Jab1 | 4-5 | 26 | 7
Dash Attack | 7-9 | 45 | 16/14/12?
Dash Attack (Late) | 10-13 | | 10/8/6?
Ftilt | 8-9 | 38 | 13
Fsmash | 51 (Super Armor: 41-50) (Cannot Rebound: 51-52)? (Reflect: 51-62)? | 96 | 30

Summary: When someone is hit by this item, a flower sprouts on top of their head dealing continuous damage over time. The F-tilt & F-smash release a dust that still makes the flower grow, but deals less damage. As long as you keep attacking repeatedly, the flower grows bigger & lasts longer dealing more damage, however the dust is limited, & once you run out of dust, this item becomes useless & can only be thrown away.

Move | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg.
Jab1 | 4-5 | 26 | 6
Dash Attack | 7-9 | 25 | 10
Dash Attack (Late) | 10-13 | | 7
Dash Attack (Dust) | 7-? | | 1 per tick
Ftilt | 8-9 | 38 | 10
Ftilt (Dust) | 8-? | | 1 per tick
Fsmash | 15- | 52 | 14
Fsmash (Dust) | 16-? | | 1 per tick

Summary: Even though it's a battering item at core, the Ore Club has a tornado projectile when F-smashing. Its close-ranged slow attacks deal strong damage while the tornado projectile covers & goes a great distance. This large projectile can only be used 6 times, & the distance it travels varies on how long you charge the F-smash input. The Tornado apparently travels FD length when Fullcharged.

Move | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg.
Jab1 | 7-9 | 37 | 12
Dash Attack | 7-9 | 66 | 12
Dash Attack (Late) | 10-13 | | 8
Ftilt | 15-16 | 55 | 16
Fsmash | 21 | 68 | 22
Fsmash (Tornado) | 35- | | 3 per hit

Summary: Your standard Jab A move is a battering hit, while the F-tilt Dash Attack & F-smash are a combination attack of the Star Rod being a blunt hit, then a star projectile fires from the Star which can be absorbed & reflected. The maximum capacity of stars is 16 regardless whether you use Ftilt, Fsmash, or charging Fsmash. When you're stars deplete, throwing this item is a threat, dealing strong knockback semi-spiking fighters being launched sideways in the process, potentially gimping them.

Move | Hitbox Active | FAF | Base Dmg.
Jab1 | 4-5 | 26 | 6
Dash Attack | 7-9 | 45 | 15/14/13
Dash Attack (Late) | 10-13 | | 10/8
Ftilt | 8-9 | 38 | 9
Ftilt (star) | 8-37 | | 7
Fsmash | 15 | 52 | 15
Fsmash (Star) | 16- | | ~9.7

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Container Items
Summary: All Container Items can be picked up, thrown, & broken which will release other items afterwards. Some containers are Heavy & when Shulk picks up Heavy items he can only walk at a slow pace while carrying them. In this case with the Heavy containers, Shulk loses the ability to run & jump. There are also some Containers that roll on a sloped surface or hit with a weak attack, including most if not every container having a probable chance of exploding when they break.

Summary: These containers both roll on slopes / hills & are heavy,

Summary:
Breaking a capsule requires a move to deal 1% or higher.

Summary:
Breaking a crate requires a move that deals 15% or higher.

Summary:

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Shooting Items
Summary: You fire a projectile with limited ammo that replaces your Jab, F-tilt, F-smash, N-air, & F-air. Most of these listed items wield a projectile that can be absorbed, & reflected. You can move left or right & jump, but a cool new feature in Super Smash Bros. 4 is when trying to fire a projectile without any ammo will make the next shot instead throw the item rather than firing empty bullets.

Summary: Pressing A once will have you fire the Drill in a telegraphed linear direction, multi-hitting anything in it's path, trapping you a bit if you're not careful. However after firing the drill, the Arm's base stays in your possession which you can also throw too, so it's a 2-in-1 deal.

Summary: Holding A will release a constant wave of flame damage, & while moving forward is basically non-stop hit-stun if your fire is connecting. Lasting for 7 whole seconds, this item can dish out nice damage, in the 40's. This item can both be absorbed & reflected

Summary: This item while pressing & holding A shoots out air, having a strong push-back effect. You can reserve the air but tapping A or flicking the C-stick 10 times depletes all of the air. Another way of getting rid of the air is by holding A for roughly 9 seconds. You can Z-drop or throw this item while it still has air, moving left or right spinning uncontrollably with bursts of air shooting out immensely. When you run out of air, it will automatically throw the item for you instead

Summary: This item has 16 shots of ammo, & each shot deals 4%. The shots essentially can combo you & knock you back offstage to the point you may not be able to come back if you're shot enough times

Summary: This item has 10 torpedo bullets of ammo, & each torpedo shot deals 14%. After all 10 torpedo shots have been fired, the 11th attempted shot will be throwing the item itself

Summary: Tapping A repeatedly will fire 48 shots in a stream, which traps you if to be hit by the first couple of shots at close range. Like all shooting items you can move left or right, so trapping them further is no problem, but this item can also charge your shots, making your shots potentially KO. Holding A fully charges a shot, & you can fire 3 of those with a fresh Super Scope of 48 shots. There's several charging stages of when you can fire it to deal different damages, but you mostly fire the 48, or fullcharge 3 huge ones, & alternate between

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Special Items
Summary: They're unique & don't fully operate like other items, but some of these items have similar functions such as Daybreak shooting, & Hammer battering. Some require control, others require collecting pieces to create a powerful item. Either way, MArts rarely affect most of the items in this category.

Summary:

Summary: Acts similarly to the Hammer, except that it has more advantages. Picking it up forces you to use for a duration of time, in which the Golden Hammer deals stronger damage, hit-lag, & knockback than the regular Hammer. Golden Hammer has a usage allowing you to drift-hover-float for a short time when mashing the A button. The drawbacks include losing your DoubleJump, & also that there's a chance it can backfire on you & becomes a Golden Squeaky Hammer, useless in combat by dealing no damage. You still have the drift-hover by mashing A, but that's it.

With MArts
Jump: Jump Height, Air Speed, & Falling speed all increase the mobility when using this hammer. An example would be they're at 0% & I hit them once, then follow-up with a Full Hop to connect twice KO'ing them. Definitely use Jump with Golden Hammer. You travel more distance when drift-hovering with Jump active.

Speed: Jump Height is reduced, however damage isn't reduced, & your Ground Speed & Air Speed are exceptionally fast when holding this hammer. Definitely use Speed with Golden Hammer. You travel more distance whend rift-hovering with Speed active.

Shield: Jump Height, Air Speed, & Ground Speed all decrease, but the damage & knockback doesn't decrease. You're still heavy & reduce damage taken while using the Golden Hammer. This Art is not too shabby of a choice, but there are still better choices

Buster: Damage doesn't increase & the knockback doesn't decrease. Additionally, Buster's increased shielddamage & shield knockback is not factored when using the Golden Hammer. Overall, nothing would change. You still take additional damage, so per-say someone with a counter or any move that can bypass through your attack & punish you for it can be devastating, making it risky to hold the Golden Hammer. There are better Art choices than using Buster with Golden Hammer.

Smash: Knockback doesn't increase & the damage doesn't decrease. Additionally, Smash's decreased shielddamage & shield knockback is not factored when using the Golden Hammer. Overall, nothing would change. You still take increased knockback, so per-say someone with a counter or any move that can bypass through your attack & punish you for it can be extremely devastating, making it very risky to hold the Golden Hammer. There are much better Art choices than using Smash with Golden Hammer.

Summary: Being around since Smash 64, this item strikes fear to everybody, everybody except characters with a counter. When picked up the player goes into a forced state that lasts for 7 seconds, meanwhile you deal strong damage & knockback potentially able to KO at low percents. The drawback to this item is that at times the Hammer head can fall off almost around the same time you pick up the Hammer, so beware, because the Hammer Head can still deal huge damage & knockback.

With MArts
Jump: Jump Height, Air Speed, & Falling speed all increase the mobility when using this hammer. An example would be they're at 0% & I hit them once, then follow-up with a Full Hop to connect twice KO'ing them. Definitely use Jump with the Hammer.

Speed: Jump Height is reduced, however damage isn't reduced, & your Ground Speed & Air Speed are exceptionally fast when holding this hammer. Definitely use Speed with the Hammer.

Shield: Jump Height, Air Speed, & Ground Speed all decrease, however your damage & knockback doesn't decrease. You're still heavy & reduce damage while using the Hammer.

Buster: Damage doesn't increase, but the knockback doesn't decrease either. Nothing changes. Your reduced weight & taking additional damage makes it risky while holding the Hammer. Don't use Buster with the Hammer.

Smash: Knockback doesn't increase, but the damage doesn't decrease either. Nothing changes. Your reduced weight still factors in, so you're lighter when holding the Hammer. Don't use Smash with the Hammer.

Summary:

Summary: Pressing A when nearby one of these takes you for a sky-high ride, allowing the option to steer it left or right. The grounding impact will deal 23% & good knockback, which can be quite a threat to anyone including yourself since it's possible to SD. Platforms hurt this item's effectiveness so often times characters will hide under them crouching, but a bubble shield will not protect someone, & the player riding on the Warp Star is invincible until the star's impact.

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Status Items
Summary: These kinds of items apply or augment some sort of effect that often benefits using it. Some Status Items don't need to be grabbed, while others can be grabbed while holding another item. A potential attribute or ability can be utilized when certain Status Items are equipped to you, so make sure to get these kinds of items depending on the effects you're looking for.

Summary: Lasting for 30 seconds, this defending item's duration can be shortened when taking good amounts of damage. It's more preferred on smaller characters because it's positioned to be below the center for taller / bigger characters. When you're close by someone facing them, the turn facing away, the turning motion of the Back Shield applies a push-back effect as well. Most info is N/A

Summary:

Summary: There's literally no downsides when equipping this Status Item, especially if Shulk is facing projectile-using characters then this is a gift from the heavens. This item protects you by reflecting any projectile, that apparently re-directs electric-based attacks back at the casting user who shot it. It doesn't last forever so it wears off after a little while, but anyways, always pick this up when you're facing tough projectiles.

Summary:

Summary: This Status item alters your first & second jumps turning them into 2 Screw Attacks much like Samus' Up-B. You were able to throw this item, but as a result with later installments of Smash Bros., it's now a badge item strictly. You can also cancel the Screw Attack animation with an aerial or special move.

With MArts
Jump: Jump Height immensely increases, making the 1st & 2nd jump fully lengthened out follow-up with aerials.

Speed:

Shield:

Buster: Damage immensely increases, & the knockback decreases making all hits connect guaranteed.

Smash:

Summary:

Summary: This Status item from Mario's universe gives the user racoon ears & a tail, granting 3 whole seconds of floating when holding a jump button. You can descend in mid-float & re-use the effect, as long as your 3 whole seconds end you won't be able to float until landing on the ground, refreshing your float. You can input all of your attacks normally while moving left or right, but you can't use this when you're in a helpless state

Summary:

Summary: Flames will be constantly spewing out of the mouth for 13 whole seconds no matter where you are (yes, even underwater). You can act out using any moves you want, but the flames only come out from the front & your movement is affected which removes your walk, making you constantly dashing. The flames are considered energy-based therefore can be absorbed & reflected, but the affected character can grab you, & the flames disappear when you've grabbed them

With MArts
Jump: Nothing really changes, but having hit-stun flame breath while edge-guarding is silly good.

Speed: Increases the non-stop dashing movement, making this meh, though your damage doesn't decrease.

Shield: Decreases the non-stop dashing movement, making this surprisingly effective. Damage doesn't decrease.

Buster: Damage & knockback aren't affected. Basically nothing changes.

Smash: Knockback & damage aren't affected. Basically nothing happens.

Summary:

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Summoning Items
Summary: These items within your possession will release an ally to fight alongside you, or another case released to fight against you. Considerably a rare type of item as there's only the Assist Trophy, Poke Ball, & Master Ball. However, the Master Ball & Poke Ball are also considered as Throwing Items because they must be thrown in order to summon the pokemon inside.

Summary: With there being 39 Assist Trophy fighters, the in-depth explanation of each & every fighter within this summoning item would do no good. In order to summon the Nintendo character, you must stay grounded so that your character raises it up high releasing the fighter. Some Assist characters can be hit away, but most info is N/A

Summary:

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Throwing Items
Summary: Items thrown replace the entire A move-set of every character to only throw the item / projectile. Can be thrown in 5 different directions, & 2 different strengths being Tilt thrown & Smash thrown. Some Throwing Items explode, some are apart of a character's move-set, & some heal or affect your status or be trap-setting, but every Throwing Item's damage & knockback increase the harder you throw it.

Summary:

Summary:
The Blast Box exploding from a physical attack requires 19% or higher. Otherwise, any flame-based attack makes the Blast Box explode regardless of the move's damage.

Summary:

Summary: When thrown for the first time, it deals some damage & acts as a tactical trap, but colliding with it afterwards, doesn't deal damage, so placing it well can score some great KOs outright ruining some character's recovery. Others must watch out for this because when thrown for the first time it can KO because of the knockback scaling potentially killing at the mid-high percentage. It may set up in mid-air or on the ground, so make use of it because it lasts for 10 seconds

Summary:

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Transformation Item
Summary: This is the rarest type of Item in Super Smash Brothers because there's only 1 transofmring item, the Bullet Bill.

Summary: Picking up the item, your character transforms into the Bullet Bill flying in a straight linear direction depending on where you aim it to go. You can SD if you go too far out off-stage since this item travels a very long distance, so be mindful when using it. Bullet Bill fresh deals 25%, & can KO at the mid-high percentages around the 70 ~ 90% range. Finally, when the activation ends, you ricochet backwards, spiraling in a torpedo motion.

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Character-Specific Items
These items can naturally be reflected or countered with Vision, & some of the items below can be absorbed. Learning item-play & knowing how to use a character's item(s) with Shulk can be vital when playing against them. Neither Buster nor Smash affect the damage & knockback when their items are held in our possession, but Vision countering them sure does deal some nice damage or knocback depending on the item;s damage, knockback, and the speed & power of it thrown (E.g. a Light thrown Bomb would deal less damage when Vision countered as opposed to Vision countering a Heavy thrown Bomb). Using Vision against game-changing items like Peach's Stitch-face Turnip Vegetable is critical, so be especially aware of the prime-time items.

For a quick reminder, items can be thrown in 5 different directions: Neutral (Item-dropping aka Z-drop), Forward, Backward, Upward, & Downward.
Items can be thrown at 2 different strengths: Smash & Tilt

Item projectiles that can be caught, parried with Vision, & thrown are:

: Mechakoopa / Impatient Mechakoopa / Big Mechakoopa

: Peanut / Jumbo Peanut & Banana Peel / Shocking Banana Peel / Battering Banana Peel

: Bomb / Giant Bomb / Meteor Bomb

: Metal Blade / Hyper Bomb

: Bonus Fruit / Freaky Fruit / Lazy Fruit

: Vegetable / Light Veggie / Heavy Veggie

: Gyro / Fire Gyro / Slip Gyro

: Broken Tomes & Broken Levin Sword

: Bomb / Time Bomb / Short-Fuse Bomb

: Wood Chip

: Wario Bike / Speeding Bike / Burying Bike (None of these can be caught because they're all Heavy items)
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Shield / Decisive Shield / Hyper Shield
When items are used against you, you might be more prone to playing defensively. The three Art stances that improve your defensive capabilities the most are Shield, DShield, & HShield, & these 3 Arts increase your weight & reduce damage you take thus reducing the chances of being KO'd. The greatest defensive tool the Shield Arts possess for combatting hard-hitting items & projectiles is your bubble shield because a Shield Art increases your shield health & your shield regeneration. Despite your overall slow movement against items & projectiles, your bubble shield can take the heat & handle the heavy pressure.

For some educational trivial learning, Shield even helps survive OHKOs as well. Here's a list of OHKO's from this wiki.

Shield mode at 0% survives:

Daybreak's sweetspot
Dragoon
Wario-Man's fully charged Wario Waft
Giga Mac's fully charged sweetspotted Straight Lunge
Giga Mac's fully charged F-smash angled upward & horizontally
Giga Mac's fully charged sweetspotted U-smash

Decisive Shield mode at 0% survives:

Daybreak's sweetspot
Dragoon
Wario-Man's fully charged Wario Waft
Giga Mac's fully charged sweetspotted Straight Lunge
Giga Mac's fully charged F-smash angled upward & horizontally
Giga Mac's fully charged sweetspotted U-smash
Home-Run Bat's smash attack with or without the tip
Marth & Lucina's Final Smash Critical Hit

Hyper Shield mode at 0% survives:

Daybreak's sweetspot
Dragoon
Wario-Man's fully charged Wario Waft
Giga Mac's fully charged sweetspotted Straight Lunge
Giga Mac's fully charged F-smash angled upward & horizontally
Giga Mac's fully charged sweetspotted U-smash
Marth & Lucina's Final Smash Critical Hit
Home-Run Bat's smash attack with or without the tip

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Buster / Decisive Buster / Hyper Buster

Berserker. · Oct 28, 2014

Leaf shield ain't an item

Gordo ain't an item either. If it were, I'd love to know how to catch it

Masonomace · Oct 29, 2014

berserker01 said:
Leaf shield ain't an item

Gordo ain't an item either. If it were, I'd love to know how to catch it

Thanks for clarification. I updated.

Berserker. · Oct 29, 2014

I'll test everything and see what happens

Masonomace · Oct 29, 2014

berserker01 said:
I'll test everything and see what happens

Sorry but thank you. Thanks again to everyone who makes this Thread educationally possible.

Jade_Rock55 · Oct 29, 2014

Interesting I'll test after school.

Opana · Oct 29, 2014

If I get a chance I'll do a bit of testing too, what I can solo anyway.

Jade_Rock55 · Oct 29, 2014

So wait...Can't test yet but,smash home run bat,Shulk OP!Or speed and zair drops for falling speed increase aireal catches.Shield someone's item like a boss.

erico9001 · Oct 29, 2014

So you did make a thread about it after all. Don't forget about how Smash/Buster/Shield/Speed do not effect the hammer's (or golden hammer's) knockback or damage. However, Jump, Speed, and Shield all do effect the jumping and running with the hammer in their respective manners. Therefore, it's probably best to either be in Monado Jump or Monado Speed with the hammer.

Also, the Bunny Hood have a very interesting and not expected effect when used in conjunction with Monado Arts. Both Monado Shield, Monado Speed, and Monado Jump move the same speed and have the same jump the same height with a Bunny Hood than Vanilla Shulk with a Bunny Hood. The Monado Arts do not have any effect on your run or jump speed when you have the bunny hood equipped.

I tested the effects of Dragoon on Shulk with normal Monado Shield, and he can survive dragoon at around 35% damage in the middle of battlefield (provided you switch to Jump after being knocked off). I don't know where Daybreak's sweetspot is, but basically Shulk took the weapon's attack at 80% damage with no issue.

edit: Right now I'm wondering how knockback is effected when you are using Monado Shield or Buster while also metal. Since Bunny Hood seems to override the jump height and run speed of the Monado modes, Metal might override the changed knockback of Monado modes. I can't really test this on my own though.
edit2: When you're giant as the result of a giant mushroom, your down smash covers half of final destination :]. When giant because of lightning doing the opposite of its usual effect, your down smash covers like 3/4 of FD

.
edit3: When moving or jumping while blowing the Gust Bellows item, your speed is unaffected but your jump height is.
edit4: Your jump is still effected by the Screw Attack item, and this item is pretty deadly with Monado Jump since it keeps spinning for the entire way up.
edit5: Air mobility effects the Super Leaf item, so you will glide faster with MSpeed and MJump and much slower with MShield.
edit6: Monado arts will have an effect on the damage/knockback you deal when countering an item that hits you. This includes a bob-omb that is walking towards you and a gooey bomb that explodes while on you.
edit7: When hitting a soccer ball, Monado Modes do impact the amount of damage that the ball deals to the opponent, but are unrelated to the amount of knockback dealt the the opponent. However, Monado Arts do effect the knockback on the ball and the angle the ball is sent. It's a good idea to hit a soccer ball in buster mode then, since there's no decreased knockback (the soccer ball is nerfed in terms of its knockback though)
edit8: The results found with the gust bellows applies to items like the super scope and fire flower as well.
edit9: Air mobility/jump height do not seem to effect the speed or height of the Rocket Belt.
edit10: The more damage you do to a blast box or similar item, the faster it gets destroyed. Hitting a blast box with Dtilt requires 5 hits with Smash, 3 hits with Vanilla, and 2 hits with Buster.
edit11: With Lip's Stick (the flower), not only does Monado Buster increase your total damage with the hit, it also increases how long the flower will stay on the enemy. This is something I discovered while working on my Shulk modset in Brawl, and the amount of staying power the flower has rises exponentially with each percent of initial damage the hitbox deals. With Vanilla Shulk, Fully charged Lip's Stick pressed up fully against the backside of Bowser does 21% damage initially and ends at 44% with Vanilla Shulk. With Monado Buster, the same hit does 28% initially and ends at 82%. Definitely go to Monado Buster if you have Lip's Stick

Masonomace · Oct 29, 2014

@

erico9001 Yeah I'll definitely be updating the OP to be adding general information about every item MArts would affect in certain ways. All of this info is wonderful.

Is it safe to say that MArts do not affect the following types of items what-so-ever?:

Throwing (throwing speed, or dropping speed might increase by Jump's falling speed since it was held by us before dropped)
Container (These are mostly thrown to open up anyhow)
Shooting
Recovery (I fail to see how MArts affect Recovery)
Collectible (I fail to see how MArts affect Collecting)

And only these types of items are affected by MArts:

Battering
Status
Special

erico9001 · Oct 29, 2014

Yes, except your jump height is effected while jumping with super scope, ray gun, fire flower, gust bellows, and steel-diver.

Also, items which you hit are affected. This includes Soccer ball (more damage = more damage to opponent), crates (more damage = breaks sooner), Unira (more knockback sends this item farther), Sandbag, and Killer Eye (more damage = easier to send flying). They do not seem to affect green shells.

Oh yeah and don't forget your final smash is affected too.

edit: Another item you can hit would be certain assist trophies

Masonomace · Oct 29, 2014

@

erico9001 yo! Just thought about more items being destroyed faster, & thought of Wario's Bike. I'm not aware of the exact changes, but his Bike no longer drops tires when it's destroyed. Wario still likes throwing his Bike off-stage & all that, so I thought because Buster deals more damage, it would destroy his Bike faster.

Speaking of Containers that are throw-able, would a Heavy Item like a Barrel, Crate, Party Ball, any of these be affected by Speed or Shield in the aspect of increasing the carry-walking animation movement speed?

erico9001 · Oct 29, 2014

Masonomace said:
@ erico9001 yo! Just thought about more items being destroyed faster, & thought of Wario's Bike. I'm not aware of the exact changes, but his Bike no longer drops tires when it's destroyed. Wario still likes throwing his Bike off-stage & all that, so I thought because Buster deals more damage, it would destroy his Bike faster.

Speaking of Containers that are throw-able, would a Heavy Item like a Barrel, Crate, Party Ball, any of these be affected by Speed or Shield in the aspect of increasing the carry-walking animation movement speed?

It probably would destroy his bike faster! The crates/barrels are not effected while walking with them in Speed/Shield.

Jade_Rock55 · Oct 29, 2014

@erico9001,Thanks for the information!Smash shulk homeruncontest is fun for the bat.Too bad you can't use hyper since hyper buster to hyper smash homerun sounds...Poor sandbag.At least Shulk will have an advantage for items.

N7Kopper · Oct 31, 2014

Jade_Rock55 said:
@erico9001,Thanks for the information!Smash shulk homeruncontest is fun for the bat.Too bad you can't use hyper since hyper buster to hyper smash homerun sounds...Poor sandbag.At least Shulk will have an advantage for items.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Monado was the main reason that custom stuff can't be used in HRC - Shulk can swing for the fences with Buster and not even break the wall until >100%! Imagine what would happen with Hyper? Ganondorf batdrops in Melee might have a rival, especally in Wii U with two Hyper Shulks.

Masonomace · Nov 1, 2014

@

erico9001 This kind of popped in my mind, but for Shield DShield or HShield, did you crouch the OHKO moves such as Lucina's Critical Hit attack?

I forget that crouching before getting hit reduces knockback, perhaps saving Shulk more often. Apologies for posting if you already had that in mind & tested that.

N7Kopper · Nov 1, 2014

Masonomace said:
@ erico9001 This kind of popped in my mind, but for Shield DShield or HShield, did you crouch the OHKO moves such as Lucina's Critical Hit attack?

I forget that crouching before getting hit reduces knockback, perhaps saving Shulk more often. Apologies for posting if you already had that in mind & tested that.

IIRC, crouch-cancel isn't in this game, but you're instead vectoring downwards and reducing knockback enough to not die.
I might be horribly wrong, though.

Masonomace · Nov 1, 2014

N7Kopper said:
IIRC, crouch-cancel isn't in this game, but you're instead vectoring downwards and reducing knockback enough to not die.
I might be horribly wrong, though.

I would think it's not, but I posted that because from Berathen Games' comment from the Notes:
http://berathen.com/learntosmash/little-mac-ko-percents.php

Crouching in this game reduces knock back considerably and increases the percentage needed for KO Punch by 14~15%.

So It seems to be so, which is lame but fitting for MArt Shield seeing as it would immensely help.

EDIT: Also I'm a day late, but welcome to Smashboards N7.

Masonomace · Nov 2, 2014

*Did some updates to the OP, & had some suggestions in mind for interesting tests.

Think Luigi's D-taunt Meteor smash effect. That was guaranteed a OHKO despite that it was very unlikely connecting in a match, but regardless, MArt Shield would probably not be able to survive such a hit. We'd have to go straight to DMArt Shield or HMArt Shield to tackle that big challenge.

EDIT: I also suspect that Back Shield, the defending status item would be greatly augmented by MArt Shield reducing damage to keep the Back Shield lasting for that full 30 second duration. DMArt Shield makes it even better of course, while MArts that increase damage like Jump & Buster may weaken this item's potential. One final factor I suspect may work is Speed or Smash having a different push-back animation while Back Shield is turned to be touching them, facing away.

EDIT#2: Made a bigger update to the OP, adding more items & pictures within spoilers.

Jade_Rock55 · Nov 4, 2014

Wait crouch cancel is back!?Source?

Masonomace · Nov 4, 2014

Anyone know if Smash mode hitting Barrels or Rolling Crates increases the knockback that they travel? The damage reduction with knockback may send them flying at high speeds perhaps.

Or if Speed mode throwing an item while using an Advanced Technique with throwing it increases any movement speed, sliding, even traction while moving across the ground.

erico9001 · Nov 5, 2014

Masonomace said:
Anyone know if Smash mode hitting Barrels or Rolling Crates increases the knockback that they travel? The damage reduction with knockback may send them flying at high speeds perhaps.

Or if Speed mode throwing an item while using an Advanced Technique with throwing it increases any movement speed, sliding, even traction while moving across the ground.

I wonder if there are any MArt cancel works with any items.

I tried the rolling crate thing before, and I found for some reason Smash mode did 1% more damage to the opponent when the rolling crate hit the opponent. To my naked eye, there did not appear to be any change in speed. Although, now that I think of it maybe the crate rolled slightly faster, maybe like 5% faster, causing the 1% damage. I can't remember if there was any difference with other modes. But yeah, it was strange.

Something good to test would be if Marts effect jump height on springs. I can't test right now though.

Masonomace · Nov 6, 2014

Masonomace said:
Think Luigi's D-taunt Meteor smash effect. That was guaranteed a OHKO despite that it was very unlikely connecting in a match, but regardless, MArt Shield would probably not be able to survive such a hit. We'd have to go straight to DMArt Shield or HMArt Shield to tackle that big challenge.

@

erico9001 @

Berserker. @

Opana @

Jade_Rock55
I was testing what I have quoted above, & the settings were 0% to both of us on FD, Luigi D-taunting Shulk hanging on the ledge. I can confirm that MArt Shield, or DShield do NOT save you from the D-taunt Meteor KO, you just die regardless. (I only tested 0%, perhaps the outcome may change with different percents.)

However, HShield active saves you from being KO'd at first, which means you're able to input DJ & Air Slash, except the jump height is so bad you can't recover back from the Meteor, unless you de-activate HShield so fast while inputting the DJ, that your Air Slash would barely save your skin.

We are able to cycle through MArts as we're being launched, but idk about this situation. The Meteor effect is difficult to survive against & idek if it's possible to vector this, or if a slight amount of Hit-stun Shuffling would help us live. The last point to make is my unawareness of Meteor Canceling existing in Smash 4 or not, so perhaps an Air Slash asap may survive the D-taunt spike.

EDIT: Also I finished putting in most if not all of the items you can use in Smash 4. If I missed any items let me know. I too have some input to make for the items involving Against MArts & With MArts.

Masonomace · Nov 10, 2014

@

erico9001
This is hilarious, but when I was messing around with Golden Hammer & Hammer while using Jump mode, I was following up with the first hit of either Hammer, & Full Hopped toward them & got the 2nd hit off guaranteed at 0%.

It's safe to say that Jump mode is pretty damn good with item's in general. Mind you that I was merely messing around with this at first, but if a hammer drops on the floor & they're still on the revival platform that don't possess a counterattack, the THKO (Two-hit KO) can seal a stock no matter who the character is, which is terrifying for them.

N7Kopper · Nov 11, 2014

Masonomace said:
I would think it's not, but I posted that because from Berathen Games' comment from the Notes:
http://berathen.com/learntosmash/little-mac-ko-percents.php
So It seems to be so, which is lame but fitting for MArt Shield seeing as it would immensely help.

EDIT: Also I'm a day late, but welcome to Smashboards N7.

Well, the source's claim seems to be in-range of the benefits given by vectoral influence - and Mac's KO Uppercut sends you skyward, so crouching = good vectoring, at least as far as that move goes.

erico9001 · Nov 11, 2014

Since it's vectoring, you wouldn't necessarily need to be crouching when hit and could press down while in the air. You would be vectoring from when the move first hits you though, so your survivability will be greater than if you were relying on reaction time.

Although, when I think of it, the same result could be gotten if you were spot dodging instead of crouching. That's probably the better thing to do, since you have a chance to dodge it and not receive massive damage. Spot dodging in combo with Monado Shield would have you prety well protected I guess.

How I usually deal with the ko punch as Shulk is to switch to Monado Jump and stall for a few seconds. He can't really get you in the air. While in the air, I'll switch to Shield and attempt to get a FAir in after (or possibly as) I land. That has just enough knockback to beat the power meter out of him.

Masonomace · Nov 13, 2014

@

erico9001
"Okay so about HShield versus MArth & Lucina's Final Smashes since I did the testing earlier yesterday with friends: (This was all done at the center of FD in training mode)

-Both their Final Smashes normally deal 60% and still OHKO Shulk even with Shield or DShield on, but HShield mode is our savior.

HShield reduces the damage down to 32%, & we're able to survive their Final Smashes even when our percent reaches in the 12 ~ 15% range, but percentages higher than 20+% we cannot survive it. De-activate the HMArt as soon as possible to recover back/

-For the lols, I tested Dragoon to a more extent, & when this item's attack usually deals 40%, HShield reduces the damage to 21%. We can live up to the 40 ~ 49% range, but that's as far as we can live the hit since I was dying in the 70% numbers from being launched.

HShield is freakin amazing, unfortunately I didn't test Home-Run Bat or Electrode. Or the Master Core final hit >:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
As for testing with other items, I didn't test much, but there are some items that are just not affected by MArts what-so-ever when we use them, but owell. Ground-breaking good information regarding Shulk using the Smash Ball for his Final Smash:

MArts do affect the Chain Attack, but after fully testing out the Final Smash with every possible usage of each Art stance whether they're regular, Decisive, or Hyper, it's a bit underwhelming to activate a certain (D or H)MArt before destroying the Smashl Ball & using it for any advantages. The best mileage we get out of using any DMArts or HMArts are DBuster, HBuster, DSmash, & HSmash.

DMArts last for at least a good 20 seconds, so the entire duration will prolong throughout the entire Final Smash action. Though the only DMArts we'd use is either DBuster for racking damage, or DSmash for the knockback power.
HMArts only lasting for 6 seconds CAN wear off in mid-way of the Final Smash, which is the biggest reason why HBuster is the best HMArt to use for Chain Attack.
HSmash may deal garbage damage, but the knockback is so powerful on the final hit that we could make this into a OHKO Final Smash when that certain character is at the right percentage.

I'll have all of the % numbers in my next post. I took the liberty of recording down numbers / data etc.

Masonomace · Nov 24, 2014

@

erico9001 I'm growing unsure if Chain Attack really did remain the same. I was taking a look at Dantarion's Master Core dump full of info & came across this:
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=shulk&mode=view104#subaction-287

287
#0xc88c5609
def game_287():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=15.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x33, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=35.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x3, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=60.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x3, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=72.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x32, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=89.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x3, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=99.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x32, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=113.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x32, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=119.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x3, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=133.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x32, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=140.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x33, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x14, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=150.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=2.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x32, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=245.000000, )
Hitbox5_0D6(Id=0x0, Bone_=0x0, Damage=12.000000, Angle=0x169, BKB=0x50, 0x1, 0x5A, 0x2, 1.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000, 0x2, 0x3, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, )
unk_170(0x10, 0x2100, )
End_196()

There is the 3% & 5% in there listed before the list of 2%s & the 12% final hit, but seeing eleven 2%s doesn't make that much ~~sense~~ cents let alone dollars.

erico9001 · Nov 24, 2014

Masonomace said:
@ erico9001 I'm growing unsure if Chain Attack really did remain the same. I was taking a look at Dantarion's Master Core dump full of info & came across this:
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=shulk&mode=view104#subaction-287

There is the 3% & 5% in there listed before the list of 2%s & the 12% final hit, but seeing eleven 2%s doesn't make that much ~~sense~~ cents let alone dollars.

Well I tested both to be sure they were both 40% damage and also used it three times in succession on each version to make sure there was no hidden decimals. Still, let's see here.. eleven 2.0% damages and one 12% damage makes 34%.

Interesting. If you actually go into 1.04 and log the damage by doing the move you get this:

3
5
7
9
11
13
15
17
19
21
23
35
40

Or with how much is added with each hit:

3
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
12
5

The differences are the initial hit of 3 is missing from the data and the final hit of 5 is also missing. Also, there's 11 2's instead of the actual 10 that is seen in the game.

The initial hit missing would just be because the initial hit is a different sub action that directs to this one if the hitbox hits (this is similar to most final smashes). The last hitbox not being there is weirder but not too surprising, because the 5% hitbox is pretty weird in the game. If you go into 1/4x speed and use the final smash, the 5% damage hitbox hits while the opponent is in the air, after the Monado slices through him. It appears to do no knockback. I'm wondering why the developers would decide to do that... but back to the point I'm guessing that is also at a different sub action.

The additional 2% damage hitbox is the weird thing. I'm thinking that there must be a hitbox in his final smash that is not hitting the opponent and should be. I think it's actually Riki's final hit, since if you observe the final smash in slow motion it hits the ground and no damage gets added.

Masonomace · Dec 5, 2014

Relaying it here for HShield's sake:

I confirmed for myself that Shulk with HShield on survives the Home-Run Bat hit at 0%, middle of FD, even with the Bat tipped. Somehow you're able to de-activate HShield in mid-launch as well, but after more testing you seem to die if you don't turn HShield off in time before reaching the blast line off-screen. And at times you did make it you still had to de-activate HShield because mobility issues. But yeah, another OHKO debunked by HShield. Imo that's huge because HRB has always been a guaranteed OHKO item since Smash 64.

(WIP) Monado Art's stats affect Items

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

:^)

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

:^)

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

You must find your own path to the future.

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

You must find your own path to the future.

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

You must find your own path to the future.

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Apprentice

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Lord

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

You must find your own path to the future.

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Smash Apprentice

You must find your own path to the future.

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

You must find your own path to the future.

Yeah Shulk, get stuck in!

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