Wing Tactics [Up+B movement techniques] Video refferal

[Itburns]

Hey guys so Ive been messing around with Pit and have come across some uses for his Up+B, heres what Ive found so far:

Wing Mechanics:
Pits Up+b has some interesting properties as most of you know here are the few I have found:
- The activation has an aura around it that pushes opponents a small distance. when used correctly it can even cancel out certain attacks
- It can be cancelled into any air attack with each intial flap[U/D]
- if you are hit during the wing animation you are unable to use it until you hit the ground.

Wing evade + counter
[Up+B, DI+Dair/Fair]
Pits UP+B is fast and can get you out of the way of most incoming attacks so if you follow it up with a DI'd Dair/Fair you can use it as an evasion and counter attack.

Wing Cancel
[SH, Up+b ~ Dair]
You can cancel the animation of a shorthop Up+B by quickly doing a Dair. This has 2 benefits:
a) the aura has a slight pushback
b) leaves you no lag and can retaliate/be used for mindgames

Wing Attack
[SH, Up+B, U/UF/UB ~ Air Attack]
Shorthop into a quick Up+B, wait half a second then quickly press U/UF/UB into and Air attacks(Dair/Fair/U Air/Bair).
when done right Pit should activate his Up+B close to the ground then cover more ground into an air attack of your choice

I understand it must be hard imagining what these look like without a video so Im making showcasing each of these techniques. However Im still editing it so while you guys wait here are 2 match videos showcasing how to incorporate them into a match.

Pants(Pit) vs Scarf(Lucario)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j471HzapXls
Wing Evade + Counter:
0:18, 0:35, 3:12, 4:32
Wing Cancel:
1:07,
Wing Attack:
1:19, 1:30, 3:50, 4:24
Wing Block:
2:30,

Pants(Pit) vs Scarf (Yoshi)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DC-mOBR1xMs
Wing Evade + Counter:
1:17, 3:41. 3:53, 4:13
Wing Cancel:
2:00, 2:09, 2:11
Wing Attack
0:58, 2:05, 3:14
Wing Block
2:41

Hope that helps, Wing tech video coming soon, Ill update once its done

feedback anyone?

 

[Raikage]

Good thread. Pits 'Wings of Icarus' move is one of his greatest advantages, nice to see some tactics for uses other than just recovery. It has some properties I'm interested in knowing about too, for instance if you fly horizontally/vertically they seem to stay active a lot longer than if you try to hover in place. It's mentioned in Infil's Pit video, but it really does seem like theres some variation in how long they stay active depending on what you do.

Also worth noting that using Wings of Icarus to go downwards will get you to the ground faster than just falling, dangerous to try if someones waiting under you though.

 

[CorruptFate]

not sure how useful this is but it sounds nice

 

[Itburns]

not sure how useful this is but it sounds nice

oh refer to the match videos in the post.. this should give you an idea of how they can be used when playing.

to Raikage:
Yeah I agree, Wings of Icarus have intersting properties.. Im gonna mess around with it more see if we can solve the mysteries behind this move, I do think however that this move could improve Pits game.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

I'm sorry to say this, but mostly everything here is useless in an advanced match.

Wing evade + counter
Using up-B on the ground has way too much lag, and using the D-air after it leaves you with landing lag where you'll easily get grabbed.

Wing Cancel
The time it takes you short hop, activate up-B, and land leaves you open, and the pushback is rarely enough.

Thanks for showing how to do this with no landing lag, that was something I couldn't do before.

]Wing Attack
Doing this from a distance tells your opponent in advance that all he has to do is shield, or attack you. A dash into a short hop attack is much better, there's less time for the opponent to see what you're doing, it's just as fast, and you don't have to commit to a short hop during the dash. Also a regular short hop attack is much easier to time for no landing lag.

And for all these things there's the problem if you get hit off the edge while doing them. Another problem is that you can't air dodge while in up-B mode.

I'm sorry if I come across as being harsh. But there is no use for the up-B outside of edgeguarding and recovery.

Wing Renewal and Wing Pivoting are good offensive techniques that utilize the up-B. Check out UndrDog's Pit video demonstration thread to find out about those.

 

[Undrdog]

Actually Wing Canceling when described there actually just makes it easy to finish the Dair's animation just as you touch the ground. Thus making it into an auto-cancel. Though I can see people being able to work it into their game on rare occasion as a method of mixing things up.

Again, things that seem strange or useless now might become monumental when new things are discovered. Thanks for posting this. ^_^

EDIT: My suspicions about Wing Canceling as described seem to be founded at 2:00 of that match. A Dair that failed to cancel itself was also done too close to the ground. However I do love the idea of mixing some of that into my metagame.

Also I see a LOT of bad habits forming in that Pit and it's probably due to fighting a Yoshi. The Wings of Icarus should be a last resort or something done in safety. A Yoshi won't jump out to get him due to his weak recovery but any other character would. Also way too many Wings of Icarus. Though I can understand if during this match he was just trying to learn how to use it better. In a serious match though never do it near the edge like that.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

I didn't mean to sound so critical in my post. It only seems that way because I'm only able to find negatives about the techniques, and no positives. Hopefully this stuff can be used someday, but as it stands you shouldn't be using it.

 

[Itburns]

I'm sorry to say this, but mostly everything here is useless in an advanced match.

Wing evade + counter
Using up-B on the ground has way too much lag, and using the D-air after it leaves you with landing lag where you'll easily get grabbed.

Wing Cancel
The time it takes you short hop, activate up-B, and land leaves you open, and the pushback is rarely enough.

Thanks for showing how to do this with no landing lag, that was something I couldn't do before.

]Wing Attack
Doing this from a distance tells your opponent in advance that all he has to do is shield, or attack you. A dash into a short hop attack is much better, there's less time for the opponent to see what you're doing, it's just as fast, and you don't have to commit to a short hop during the dash. Also a regular short hop attack is much easier to time for no landing lag.

And for all these things there's the problem if you get hit off the edge while doing them. Another problem is that you can't air dodge while in up-B mode.

I'm sorry if I come across as being harsh. But there is no use for the up-B outside of edgeguarding and recovery.

Wing Renewal and Wing Pivoting are good offensive techniques that utilize the up-B. Check out UndrDog's Pit video demonstration thread to find out about those.

Thanks for everyones input, 1st I just wanted to say that these are tactics and obviously should not be abused as with everything else. I admit I used them more in the matches then recommended but those 2 were just to showcase the situations in where they would be useful.

The Wing evade + counter
should be used exactly as it sounds, the Up+B has a fast activation time and can be used to evade alot of incoming attacks. the DI~Dair was a quick retaliation strike. and it may not look it but its resonably safe. DI'd in the correct direction and it will be safe from a throw incase you mess up(even with the lag of hitting the ground)

The Wing Attack
This is something that can close space.. whther you expect them to roll or you fake running away(which is how i think I used it in the pit v lucario videos. It can be predictable if abused... but thats obvious with most techniques.

Wing Cancel
This is used for mindgames either as a fake out or to build space. The actual activation of the wings will push them back if they are close enough or can leave you in a position to follow up with a throw or Dsmash.


I appreciate you being critical about my post however I dont think youve given it enough of a chance... obviously these tactics can be countered if abused but that goes for anything. What I wanted to showcase was that these could be used as a part of Pits artillery mix ups are obviously needed to keep this from being predictable.

The videos I put up were literally taped the night before and I just wanted footage to showcase the situations in where they would be useful.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

I have given these things a chance. I've tried using them before you made this thread. The reason why these don't work, even for mindgames, is because you're forcing yourself into a predictable situations where you have fewer options.

The Wing evade + counter
should be used exactly as it sounds, the Up+B has a fast activation time and can be used to evade alot of incoming attacks. the DI~Dair was a quick retaliation strike. and it may not look it but its resonably safe. DI'd in the correct direction and it will be safe from a throw incase you mess up(even with the lag of hitting the ground)

The up-B is much slower then using the shield, or spotdodging. Once you're in the air you can no longer airdodge, and you're forced to either attack, or move away. Getting grabbed after a missed D-air isn't the problem, it's the fact that if you hit their shield that you'll always get grabbed. And as a response from the opponent, a shield would be something you couldn't counter (you lost ability to do your side-B).

The Wing Attack
This is something that can close space.. whther you expect them to roll or you fake running away(which is how i think I used it in the pit v lucario videos. It can be predictable if abused... but thats obvious with most techniques.

What about dashing? Then you can still shield, jump, grab, or attack. If your opponent sees you coming with you're up-B, again a shield response would make certain that he can't be harmed. Worse, what if he has an attack that out prioritizes your F-air, you'll get hit since you can't airdodge.

Wing Cancel
This is used for mindgames either as a fake out or to build space. The actual activation of the wings will push them back if they are close enough or can leave you in a position to follow up with a throw or Dsmash.

If their close enough for you to push them with the wings, they can hit you while you take the unsafe time to activate it.

I appreciate you being critical about my post however I dont think youve given it enough of a chance... obviously these tactics can be countered if abused but that goes for anything. What I wanted to showcase was that these could be used as a part of Pits artillery mix ups are obviously needed to keep this from being predictable.

By using the wings your replacing your normal mixup game of grabs, attacks, jumps, shield, specials, and all you get is fly and attack. To show how fragile this makes you, a response that defeats both flying and attacking would be a projectile.

 

[Itburns]

I have given these things a chance. I've tried using them before you made this thread. The reason why these don't work, even for mindgames, is because you're forcing yourself into a predictable situations where you have fewer options.



The up-B is much slower then using the shield, or spotdodging. Once you're in the air you can no longer airdodge, and you're forced to either attack, or move away. Getting grabbed after a missed D-air isn't the problem, it's the fact that if you hit their shield that you'll always get grabbed. And as a response from the opponent, a shield would be something you couldn't counter (you lost ability to do your side-B).



What about dashing? Then you can still shield, jump, grab, or attack. If your opponent sees you coming with you're up-B, again a shield response would make certain that he can't be harmed. Worse, what if he has an attack that out prioritizes your F-air, you'll get hit since you can't airdodge.


If their close enough for you to push them with the wings, they can hit you while you take the unsafe time to activate it.


By using the wings your replacing your normal mixup game of grabs, attacks, jumps, shield, specials, and all you get is fly and attack. To show how fragile this makes you, a response that defeats both flying and attacking would be a projectile.

you make valid points, I do not disagree with anything you have said. I was merely implying that although unorthodox these techniques could catch an opponent off guard instead of the usual block, side+B etc

but atleast we have a brainstorm going.

 

[sagemoon]

The only time i see wing pushing useful is when i'm on the ledge and my opponent is too close so i wing push and then grab the ledge again and follow up w/ whatever i want. Although its not super effective it has its uses sometimes...