Will the addition of custom moves make matches faster, or slower overall?

[ItsRainingGravy]

With the reveal that Evo is going to have customs, how do you think that this will effect the meta in terms of speed? Better kill options/setups, better recoveries, better projectiles, better mobility/defensive options, etc. Do you think it will make matches go by faster, or slower overall? Or, maybe no change at all?

In no way am I against customs. In fact, I really love customs, and am extremely hype to see them this coming Evo! I am just curious at to what other people's opinions are, and my curiosity comes from the (unfortunate) 5 minute timer that is going to be used at Evo. And I am not really sure if customs would cause more timeouts to happen or not.

Either way, the prospect of customs at a tournament such as this is extremely exciting, and I can't wait to see what kind of versatility and potential to the table.

 

[Octagon]

I don't think that the pace will change, but i do think that customs will add variety to Smash 4. We're going to see new set ups and more unique aspects to what characters want to do with their characters

 

[stancosmos]

With the reveal that Evo is going to have customs, how do you think that this will effect the meta in terms of speed? Better kill options/setups, better recoveries, better projectiles, better mobility/defensive options, etc. Do you think it will make matches go by faster, or slower overall? Or, maybe no change at all?

In no way am I against customs. In fact, I really love customs, and am extremely hype to see them this coming Evo! I am just curious at to what other people's opinions are, and my curiosity comes from the (unfortunate) 5 minute timer that is going to be used at Evo. And I am not really sure if customs would cause more timeouts to happen or not.

Either way, the prospect of customs at a tournament such as this is extremely exciting, and I can't wait to see what kind of versatility and potential to the table.

Slightly longer, in the time it takes players to decide on a moveset. As for the actual use in game, I would say most custom moves actually make the game more aggressive than defensive, so it might save time that way, albeit marginally. All in all i think it will barely effect the time of matches, but it will make it a whole lot more varied. It will definitely separate smash 4 from the other smash games, which it desperately needs to do because melee will always be the fastest and most "competitive" installment. At least with custom moves it's metagame will be nothing like melee and people can stop comparing them and enjoy both.

 

[Octagon]

At least with custom moves it's metagame will be nothing like melee and people can stop comparing them and enjoy both.

Yeah seriously, these comparisons have got to stop. Even tho they are both Smash Bros, they play drastically differently,and customs will definitely help push the gap farther so people will stop comparing

 

[Caryslan]

It really depends on the character. Dr. Mario for example has customs that take his recovery which is considered one of the worst in the game, and gives him decent options that fix one of the biggest problems that he had. Ike is another example with Unyielding Blade. In exchange for a loss in distance, Ike can now power through projectiles and other attacks that used to hold back quick draw. He also gains a projectile of his own in Aether Wave, which can help him in certain situtions. And he also has some other nifty customs like Paralyzing Counter that open up followups or Tempest that push away opponents.

I think Customs as a whole break will open the metagame, and will keep us from seeing the same matches over and over again. I'm also hoping that low-tier characters will get a second chance to shine, since many of them have customs that vastly change their optons and often give them better tools then their default movesets.

I'm looking forward to this!

 

[Octagon]

I think Customs as a whole break open the metagame, and will keep us from seeing the same matches over and over again. I'm also hoping that low-tier characters will get a second chance to shine, since many of the have customs that vastly change their optons and often give them better tools then their default movesets.

I'm looking forward to this!

It isn't too likely but i hope low-tier characters become way better with customs, it will make the game even more balanced to a ridiculously fun degree

 

[Alhobbies440]

My guess is that Customs will do neither unless people begin to abuse powerful grab to kill move setups that were not possible before. Customs also allow for other characters to camp better so it really all depends on where the meta is headed.

 

[Octagon]

My guess is that Customs will do neither unless people begin to abuse powerful grab to kill move setups that were not possible before. Customs also allow for other characters to camp better so it really all depends on where the meta is headed.

Customs help players personalize the mains players have chosen so its all up to us what we can do with our favorite characters now with all these customs to choose from

 

[Caryslan]

It isn't too likely but i hope low-tier characters become way better with customs, it will make the game even more balanced to a ridiculously fun degree

Well, the reason why I said that it helps low-tier characters is because some of them like Ganondorf and Palutena are vastly improved when they have access to their customs. Palutena 's entire gameplay is built on the idea that she has twelve moves all with different effects, and now she can use them in a match.

And like I said before, it also helps characters like Dr. Mario since a very poor recovery was one of his most notable weaknesses and now it can be removed with Super Jump Punch and Soaring Tornado. Which means hopefully, people will stop looking at Doc as the "More powerful Mario clone with a very poor recovery" and start looking at what he brings to the table compared to normal Mario.

Plus, going by the same example, it makes both characters more comparable with less of a gap between them. Mario can be the one with the better combos, better gimping options, and speed while Doc can have his power, his tornado that can give him some options of his own, and his own attributes that make him shine. It also removes the biggest gap between the two, since Dr.'s Mario customs give him a recovery that is comparable to Mario's.

I'm not expecting to see a low-tier suddenly win evo. But what I am hoping for is a much more varied metagame that gives all characters an equal chance to shine.

I'm looking forward to this, I really am.

 

[Octagon]

Well, the reason why I said that it helps low-tier characters is because some of them like Ganondorf and Palutena are vastly improved when they have access to their customs. Palutena 's entire gameplay is built on the idea that she has twelve moves all with different effects, and now she can use them in a match.

And like I said before, it also helps characters like Dr. Mario since a very poor recovery was one of his most notable weaknesses and now it can be removed with Super Jump Punch and Soaring Tornado. Which means hopefully, people will stop looking at Doc as the "More powerful Mario clone with a very poor recovery" and start looking at what he brings to the table compared to normal Mario.

Plus, going by the same example, it makes both characters more comparable with less of a gap between them. Mario can be the one with the better combos, better gimping options, and speed while Doc can have his power, his tornado that can give him some options of his own, and his own attributes that make him shine. It also removes the biggest gap between the two, since Dr.'s Mario customs give him a recovery that is comparable to Mario's.

I'm not expecting to see a low-tier suddenly win evo. But what I am hoping for is a much more varied metagame that gives all characters an equal chance to shine.

I'm looking forward to this, I really am.

Yeah everyone loves more variation. If the game gets even more balanced i'm gonna be a happy smash player! And this is a good thing to look forward to

 

[Delzethin]

As others have already touched on, it's not a matter of being faster or slower. Acting like the speed of a match is directly proportional to how exciting it is is...misguided.

What this will do is make matches more interesting. Several more characters are viable now, meaning there'll be that much more variety in the brackets. Strategic aspects could come in play, with players switching loadouts in between matches to something they think will help their character more. Even something like a Sheik ditto gets that much more compelling when each of them is using a different set of customs.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

As others have already touched on, it's not a matter of being faster or slower. Acting like the speed of a match is directly proportional to how exciting it is is...misguided.

What this will do is make matches more interesting. Several more characters are viable now, meaning there'll be that much more variety in the brackets. Strategic aspects could come in play, with players switching loadouts in between matches to something they think will help their character more. Even something like a Sheik ditto gets that much more compelling when each of them is using a different set of customs.

Oh, the speed of the match doesn't directly correlate to my excitement for the game, actually. lol. Rather, it was something on my mind that I was curious about and wanted to know what other people thought about it Especially in regards to how it will affect the 5 minute timer that has become pretty standard (although I think it should be 6).

I definitely do agree with it making the game a lot more interesting, adding a bucketload of variety, and giving almost every character a chance to shine. In fact, I was highly disappointed at how Smash 4 wasn't using customs in tournaments at first, although it made sense to me since the game was still new. At the same time though, I didn't have much interest in watching Smash 4 tournament videos until they added custom moves into the mix, which they have been doing recently, and it makes me feel like the game is finally being tapped into its full potential. And I was originally pretty worried at the prospect that people wouldn't give custom moves a chance in tournaments, though I was happily surprised that things turned out to be the opposite of what I feared.

So to me, regardless of how "slow" Smash 4 is (especially in comparison to Melee), it is its own separate beast. And I love the three games almost equally, though I do prefer Smash 4 because of the new characters and custom moves, and how it is the first official Smash game to feel truly balanced and polished (for the most part).


...so yeah. XD How "fast" Smash 4 is doesn't really bother me. It feels perfect to me actually, not too fast, and not too slow, and seems to hit an almost perfect median. Rather, this topic was simply because I was curious in regards to the opinions of other people, and how they felt about how custom moves would affect the metagame in the future.

 

[Timbers]

Matches may move more slowly at first. We're introducing a lot of new moves into the game, and people will likely play more passively while they analyze their opponent's unfamiliar moves. Once people accrue more experience against these moves and can have a solid understanding of what these moves are capable of, then matches will pick up pace again. Customs also introduce a lot of KO potential, and leads me to believe that matches will move more quickly as players become more familiar with their opponent's options, as well as their own.

 

[Lolofora]

Dang... off Topic but how will they put custom moves on all the setup? I thaught there was no fast way.

 

[Touchebag]

Amazing Ampharos' Custom Moveset presets and a (probably several) prepared 3dses with everything unlocked to copy the characters from.

Note: This is just an educated guess. I do not know the exact method they will use but this is pretty much the best way.

 

[Thinkaman]

It varies by matchup, and there are some matches that skew faster (more KO power) and others that skew slower (better recovery).

Some are also hard to judge. Wizard's Dropkick kills much later than Wizard's Foot for Ganon, but is also does a better job of keeping him from getting walled. It makes his recovery better so he lives longer; but Ganon is surely one of the shortest average-match-length characters, so a more viable, more frequently played Ganon would mean lower average match length regardless.

WFT is the opposite. On one hand, her customs let her trade healing and good recovery for much more damage and KO power. On the other, WFT is still likely to be one of the slowest-game-length characters, so more WFTs might slow things down regardless. It's very hard to say.


Overall, I think there are slightly more matchups that skew faster.

One factor behind this is that up-b customs are--on average (across the entire cast)--the "worst" and least frequently preferred compared to defaults in their slot. Recovery improvements seem to be considered costly; most characters who actually DO gain recovery benefits from customs actually usually get those from side-b or down-b options.

For contrast, if characters had improvements to their dodges or shields, matchups would skew slower.

 

[Boigahs]

Initially, I believe it will slow down the game. The main reason why Smash 4 matches are slow is because the game is new. People don't know all the tricks in the game, or understand all the match-ups. Any fighting game will be slower when it first comes out compared to late in its life.
Custom moves will triple the ammount of match-up knowledge required to play the game (practically less than triple, since some moves will very rarely be used). Matches will take longer because people won't know exactly how to fight their opponent, and it will take people longer to gather enough match-up data to be efficient at the game.

Personally, I think having custom moves outside of side tournaments at this time is a bad idea. I think it would be better to stick with standard moves for a while so people can figure out the main part of the game, then add custom moves once the dust of the new game has settled. Having them in side tournies would let people still experiment with them without interrupting the progression of the rest of the game. We still don't know many of the ins and outs of how the game works, and claims about balance and such will change with every passing day. Adding custom moves into the mix will just confuse things even more.