Wii Fit's Header ball physics...?

[Obani]

Hey there. So I'm sort of a "newcomer" to Smash. Played 64 and Melee when I was a kid and didn't come back into the series until now (which is super late I guess). Anyways, I picked up Wii Fit as my main after watching Acestar3rd play and wasn't disappointed. I had noticed that most players that played her basically played her like any other character and started experimenting with her Header ball and its cancel to differenciate myself.

Already being somewhat adept with all kinds of projectiles, I found out how to use the ball in unique ways and used it mainly as a mindgame tool, and knowing most people don't see her very often at all, it proved very effective. (I didn't use any guides or watched any gameplay to learn and I learned all of it on the 3DS, the latter of which is important.)

Sorry for the long intro. Just made my account not too long ago and wanted to laydown uneccesary backstory. lol

Now to the main thing that really ticks me off when playing her: Her ball physics differences in the 3DS and WiiU versions. I had a look around the internet and was generally convinced that other than cosmetic differences or occasionally frame rate differences, the gameplay was essentially identical. I found out when doing my "ball tricks", as I like to call it, hitting the ball with Wii Fit's up tilt or the back hitbox of the forward tilt after canceling the Header caused the ball to go the opposite direction she was facing in the WiiU version, while in the 3DS version, it always flew the direction she was facing. They also flew in COMPLETELY different angles which made it difficult for me to edgeguard and get reads with the ball like I usually would on the 3DS.

This is BIG for me because the ball tricks are a core concept to my playstyle and completely threw me off when I made the handheld-to-console transition. So besides basically complaining like a little pleb about this thing I kinda want advice on how to combat this and want to know what you guys think about this thing. Wii Fit Trainer is my main after all (Also picked up Little Mac quite a while beforehand just in case someone tells me to get an alt..)

 

[Conn1496]

I've not experienced this problem for myself, but that being said, I haven't practiced WFT in a long time (He's not even currently on my roster, even though I've played him more than Doc recently. Whoops.). To add to that, my ball tricks were always pretty straightforward (D-Smashing or B-airing them for different angles and speeds.), so I dunno anything too in depth on this topic, but I'll try and add anyway.

I'm unsure if the ball's actual physics are different between versions since I consistently pull off whatever basic tricks I know in both versions, but I notice a lot of general jank when testing stuff with the ball and I think the Wii U version could just be more prone to it (Due to just general physics differences. Though again, not something I totally notice in normal gameplay). Now that being said, something else I noticed is that a few moves have a habit of producing multiple totally different angles to knock the ball at to start with, D-tilt being the easiest to replicate it with. It's wholly possible that the ball's hitbox in the Wii U version is the differing factor, enough so that it has a similar effect, rather than the physics being different. My only conclusion is that it's colliding with certain attacks as unintended simply because the 3DS and Wii U Header Ball have totally different collision in places.

I think the only thing to really do at this point is to practice Wii U specific ball tricks if you can, or maybe take a deeper look to see if there's anything in particular you're doing wrong when recreating the tricks on Wii U (Could very easily require more precision on console. Again, possibly because of collision differences.). I honestly don't think it'd be too different between versions, but don't take it from me as definite since I'm a casual WFT player. There's a SmashBoards user who's posted a handful of ball tricks that all look as though they were done on the Wii U version, and while I don't know if they're practical or not, I'd potentially start looking at those for ideas, too (His threads are all over the WFT boards RN.).

Hope I could at least give you an idea or two as to help solve your problem.

(Also AceStar is the reason I picked up WFT too, fite me. lol)

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Yeah, if you just want more information on how the trick shots work on the Wii U version, your best bet is to look at 9ball's thread on the subject, "Head Over Heels: A Side-B Supplement Guide" As for the specific differences, I wish I could help you more, but I've never played the 3DS version of the game. Even if I had, my trick shots are lacking at the best of times.

...a few moves have a habit of producing multiple totally different angles to knock the ball at to start with, D-tilt being the easiest to replicate it with.

On this, as far as I understand it this has to do with placement of hurtboxes and hitboxes, particularly in the case of D-tilt. All or almost all hitbozes tend to hit people in a set direction depending on which side of their hurtbox you hit. This is why sometimes moves (particularly with disjoints) seem to hit people in the wrong direction when they are very close to you. D-tilt just happens to reach far enough forward that it hits on the opposite side of the ball when you fall straight down. If you back up though, it will hit on your side, making the ball go forwards instead of behind you. I'm pretty sure it just seems inconsistent because it is very close to being on your side anyways, so the spacing could change enough even by mistake.

I... hope that was at least slightly coherent. TL:DR it isn't that one hitbox makes lots of angles, just that minute changes in spacing can produce different results.

 

[Conn1496]

I... hope that was at least slightly coherent. TL:DR it isn't that one hitbox makes lots of angles, just that minute changes in spacing can produce different results.

Oh, I was sure it was to do with timing. I was paying attention to which part of the move I hit with, but I just used totally wrong wording - thanks for clearing that up though, D-tilt probably wasn't the best example anyway. lol

Still, there are moves that produce multiple angles though I have no idea if WFT has any so it probably doesn't come into play often enough to be a problem when doing ball tricks. Regardless, hitboxes are a big deal and I assume that's the main difference between Wii U and 3DS versions. Doesn't seem like any physics or moves would be too different.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Yeah. The only move that comes to mind for producing multiple potential angles is Jab1, as it has a few different hitboxes with known property difference (the one in the shoulder does different stuff than the one in the hand, and the foot is obviously very different).