Why?

[Jazriel]

Why on earth do people say kirby is overpowered/cheap? A while ago I might've agreed (I main kirby) but after seeing some of the things other chars can do, there's no way he's overpowered. I'd even say he's a little weak in a few areas but that's just me.

 

[pdk]

the God 4 in mvc2 are all still considered overpowered, even if one of the characters in it isn't overpowered in comparison to another

 

[mercenaries]

Mainly because of the impossible to get out of kirby drill combo, DAIR + UTILT x 3+ = 60%+ a cheap way for noobs to do combos without much tech skill, also can use dair as a spike...

also

kirby's forward smash has extremely long reach, damage, and speed....

also

annoying flying

It used to be annoying but now it's quite simple to avoid any player that tries to use kirby. Kirby's movements are quite predictable since he's slow and has simply has bad vertical and horizontal speed, also dies at a bit lower percentage then other chars. Don't get within his fsmash area and don't let him drill you.

 

[SmashThugZ]

Mainly because of the impossible to get out of kirby drill combo, DAIR + UTILT x 3+ = 60%+ a cheap way for noobs to do combos without much tech skill, also can use dair as a spike...

it's not cheap at all, and it's not just for "noobs"
that's like a basic for any person who uses Kirby
Just like when a person uses Falcon, the aerial UP+A combo is a basic
and just like with Fox, his drill down then up tilt is a standard

 

[Nephiros]

Or just don't drill and utilt instead. I've been comboed from around 15-20% to 70% just by utilts as Fox, and it's quite hard to DI out of that.

 

[holy_pyro]

people say hes cheap because hes so easy to use compared to others and therefore has a faster learning curve than other characters.

 

[dwp171]

dair = drill + spike. fair = drill. utilt = combos at ridiculously low percentages. best fsmash in the game, great recovery, competitive grab. Just a few things I can think of.

 

[mercenaries]

it's not cheap at all, and it's not just for "noobs"
that's like a basic for any person who uses Kirby
Just like when a person uses Falcon, the aerial UP+A combo is a basic
and just like with Fox, his drill down then up tilt is a standard

the difference is that it takes less tech skill then it would a fox player or a falcon player. there isn't any timing required for kirbys moves whereas for a fox player he would have to worry about short hopping z cancelling doing the next dair at the appropriate time etc. and for falcon you can still DI away from less experienced players who don't know how to finish the combo whereas you can't against a kirby.

 

[Nephiros]

..a falcon player? Usmash/grab + Uair xinfinite..
I can DI easier away from a Kirb' than I can with a CF..but yea, Kaabii still has a faster learning curve.

 

[greenblob]

Mainly because of the impossible to get out of kirby drill combo, DAIR + UTILT x 3+ = 60%+ a cheap way for noobs to do combos without much tech skill, also can use dair as a spike...

also

kirby's forward smash has extremely long reach, damage, and speed....

also

annoying flying

It used to be annoying but now it's quite simple to avoid any player that tries to use kirby. Kirby's movements are quite predictable since he's slow and has simply has bad vertical and horizontal speed, also dies at a bit lower percentage then other chars. Don't get within his fsmash area and don't let him drill you.

Other than the spike, Jigglypuff does all of this better. You can escape Kirby's drill with a tech at high percents.

 

[Dash_Fox]

I fear kirby's priority more than any of jigg's moves.

 

[Volrec]

I try to tell myself that Kirby isn't cheap, but when its 0-70%, I have less, and the pink little flufball combos me to 80%, then fsmash spamming me till i go flying, and then have no chance of winning because of the dair ****, it kinda gets to ya.

 

[Jazriel]

Well then I must be playing badly. Whenever I try to d-air spam I get out-prioritized (I'm assuming) by things like pika's d-air, mario's u-tilt, dk's grab, etc. It really pisses me off.

Kirby has to worry about shzc d-air's as well. If you don't z-cancel kirby's attacks you get destroyed.

Also, mario is way more cheap than kirby. d-air to u-tilt kills kirby at around 60ish%. That's bull.

 

[SLIM]

Kirby is aewsome in 64 and is not cheap

 

[Thino]

I think people say Kirby is cheap cuz he's the easiest to master

 

[Jazriel]

He may be "easy to master" but in terms of cheapness he falls far short. He's not even "easy to master" anyways. Sure you can learn the d-air + u-tilt or whatever but learning how to use his other attacks is difficult. His u-air is completely useless, anyone ever notice that?

Point is: Kirby is not a cheap character. Played well, he is like everyone else, a good character. Other than that, I'd have to say Ness is by far the cheapest char. That and Luigi's u-b.

 

[CyrusTheGreat]

how is ness the cheapest character? Hes definetly a strong character but I would not go as far as saying cheap. Depends on what you think "cheap" is? Then again cheap is another way of saying you get owned because you don't know how to counter it or you keep setting yourself up for it.

As far as kirby, whoever said his moves are predictable, I totally agree. before I had a difficult time with kirbies but I started getting accustomed to their motions.

 

[Thino]

Ness is cheap , but his learning curve is much harder than that floaty overprioritized tilter and smasher puffball. Ness' cheapness come with experience , Kirby is much more intuitive

 

[Jazriel]

Ness is cheap because he's blatantly overpowered. All I need to say are: throws and d-air.

A throw at 30% sends kirby ACROSS HYRULE and a d-air has spike at 0% AS WELL AS the most ****ed up hitbox I've ever seen. I know kirby is floaty, but c'mon. At 30% kirby can be killed by ness's throw if he can throw him from the edge.

 

[Umbrasquall]

I have trouble avoiding the uptilt for Ness. It seems to overcome any attack from the air.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Ness is cheap because he's blatantly overpowered. All I need to say are: throws and d-air.

A throw at 30% sends kirby ACROSS HYRULE and a d-air has spike at 0% AS WELL AS the most ****ed up hitbox I've ever seen. I know kirby is floaty, but c'mon. At 30% kirby can be killed by ness's throw if he can throw him from the edge.

LOL
upb?!?!
LOL

 

[Thino]

LOL
upb?!?!
LOL

wait...what?

 

[Jazriel]

Don't ask. I was playing against a ness and I was trying to edge-guard his u-b and he just went through all my attacks. Not only that but he would kill me if I was over 80%. That is going from the left side of hyrule to the right side and dieing. Not dieing by going over the top, dieing on the right wall when I was hit in the air on the left of Hyrule. Only once did I actually manage to stop ness's u-b and that was with an n-air. My other 2 attempts were a b-air (which I executed perfectly but was out-prioritized or something) and another n-air (which I will admit I was a little slow on so I can understand if that's why he hit me but I doubt it. I've hit with the n-air just coming out before).

 

[JNS]

I'll admit ness throws are a wee bit overpowered (i think ive seen him him actually grab someone that was BEHIND him.must have been an optical ilusion or a glithch though)

If you are having trouble with his spike you probably are just being way too predictable with your comeback

IMO kirby's spikes are cheaper because he can go farther offstage to spike you and have enough recovery to get back.

 

[Jazriel]

Kirby's comeback doesn't allow for much variation. Though I am working on it. As for ness's reverse grab, it happens. I've been grabbed from behind him a few times. It's really annoying. The main problem with his spike is like I said, his obscene hitbox. I've been flying and his hat was probably a pixel or so below my feet and he spiked me straight down. And Kirby doesn't even have spikes really. Idk though, I usually ff my d-air when I'm cutting off someones recovery so I bring them very far down and then it takes all of my jumps and sometimes my u-b to recover fully.

 

[ant-d]

The main problem with his spike is like I said, his obscene hitbox. I've been flying and his hat was probably a pixel or so below my feet and he spiked me straight down.

Ness' D-air hitbox is very good. It starts relatively high on his body and more importantly it lasts for a very long time.


The hitbox starts here just under his eye.

And Kirby doesn't even have spikes really..

lol

 

[jayrico]

ant-d always with the analyzation of smash lol

 

[Jazriel]

I'll admit I'm not quite sure about the spike thing with kirby. Can anyone explain what moves he has that spike and what a spike is.

I thought a spike was when you only need to be hit once to be sent in a direction. Such as kirby's u-b (forgot about that).

Kirby's:
u-air = no spike
b-air = no spike (I'm guessing? Every b-air does kinda the same thing)
f-air = no spike (completely useless too. I think I've only used this move maybe 4 times?)
d-air = Only a spike after being hit at least 3 times by it
n-air = same as b-air

Is that right? Idk

 

[Umbrasquall]

Kirby's d-air spikes, it doesn't matter how many times you hit them. Even if you just tap them once with part of your d-air. Interestingly, if you hit more than once the downward effect of the spike is reduced. Just what I've observed.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Kirby's comeback doesn't allow for much variation..

actually 5 jumps allows a lot

 

[rokimomi]

Ummz, then I decree jiggs to be the cheapest. EZ combs and doesnt end at 70 like kirby. Who needs spikes...

 

[PrimaryFox]

Don't ask. I was playing against a ness and I was trying to edge-guard his u-b and he just went through all my attacks. Not only that but he would kill me if I was over 80%. That is going from the left side of hyrule to the right side and dieing. Not dieing by going over the top, dieing on the right wall when I was hit in the air on the left of Hyrule. Only once did I actually manage to stop ness's u-b and that was with an n-air. My other 2 attempts were a b-air (which I executed perfectly but was out-prioritized or something) and another n-air (which I will admit I was a little slow on so I can understand if that's why he hit me but I doubt it. I've hit with the n-air just coming out before).

I'm not sure what charactor you play Jazriel but you should definatly try leaving the safety of the ledge to guard vs ness. Ness's biggest weakness is his recovery imo. There are several ways to **** ness when he is trying to recover.

1. with many chars you can jump out and "steal the thunder" from ness and thus cancel his u-b causing him to fall to his death while you enjoy your second jump and recovery.

2. it is also very easy to jump and and spike/sair ness while his thunder is traveling in the circle. Just dont be scared to leave the ledge.

3. If the ness player realizes he is getting ***** he will start to begin his recoveries farther and farther away, in which case you can wait on the ledge for him to use his recover then **** him once he is not invulnerable.

I hope that helped some.

-PF (aka Cassidy)

 

[Jazriel]

Thanks. While I do think of myself as a decent kirby player there are still a lot of things I need to polish up. Like edge guarding. It's just usually whenever I attempt something like that it screws up horribly so I don't bother. i.e. I'll go to edgeguard ness and just before I hit him his pk thunder hits him and he hits me and then because it's overpowered it kills me at 70%. Annoying crap like that.

 

[Jazriel]

It's official. If you think Kirby is "cheap" and "overpowered" then you are a complete noob and have no idea what you are talking about. Kirby isn't even slightly cheap, whereas if you look at Ness and Luigi who are blatantly overpowered (I mean it. It's so obvious if you can't see it then your ********) it's easy to see who the real "noob" and "cheap" chars are.

 

[yoshi_fan]

So, 1st, use the edit >.>

2nd, Ness is ****ED slow when is jumping, and his only, also overpowered, but no so much, good attack is the grab. Also has the PK fire, but it isnt so dangerous.

And Luigi is the WORST character, (or that say Tier lists), like Samus. Mario is more cheap than Lugi in fact (i think)

And it isn't so easy to see, because Smash64 is soooo balanced ._.

Edited, Kirby is cheap because is overpowered, but calling cheap a character have a move can own you is noob stuf

Actually, each character have a powerfull move at his trump card, but kirby has all the smash at trump cards, the d air, the f air and the up b -> thats can be very anoying, its equivalent a second jump, and its kinda imposibble to avoid hit because:

1) You want to go over (up) kirby, and you do the second jumps, but kirby jumps and do the up b (or the up b only) and you fall to doom

2) you try to reah to the ledge or attack kirby, but kirby can smash you (fsmash or d smash) or spike you with d air, and you are doomed

3)You wanna try to reach down the stage and do a jump to reach the ledge, but you got owned because the spike of kirby, and his 5 jump, that can go very tall (for example, you are very dow in hyrule, and you can reach the ledge with the 3rd jump, so kirby do the dair where you are, and he gets more down... to a normal character (even jiglypuff) cant reach the borderr, but kirby YES, 5 jumps mas Up b, and the pik ball is safely.

You see, even the up air is useful, because has the kirby circle with a hit box. ITS the LAMMEST.

And, Ness isnt cheap, he has the worst disvantage, a horrrible 3rd jump, and a slow 2 nd jump (Yoshi at least have a quick 2nd jump and invincible in many frames, but ness doesn't)

Sorry for my bad english u^^

 

[PrimaryFox]

I think I have to agree with yoshi_fan on this one. In a Kirby vs. Ness match I think kirby has more than a slight advantage. Once you get ness off of the platform its almost always a free kill if you immediatly follow him out off of the ledge. Kirby's air attacks and up tilt counter a lot of what ness can do, just practice a little with the timing.

 

[Jazriel]

So, 1st, use the edit >.> Boo hoo, deal with it.

2nd, Ness is ****ED slow when is jumping, and his only, also overpowered, but no so much, good attack is the grab Excuse me? d-air, d-tilt, u-tilt, and he has good smashes. Also has the PK fire, but it isnt so dangerous.

And Luigi is the WORST character, (or that say Tier lists), like Samus. Mario is more cheap than Lugi in fact (i think) Luigi's u-b is practically jiggs rest but with no penalty and today I learned about another overpowered move. His d-b. It has a very powerful spike on it's last hit so lets see: it's a recovery move, a drill, a very powerful spike, and has a good hitbox

And it isn't so easy to see, because Smash64 is soooo balanced ._.

Edited, Kirby is cheap because is overpowered, but calling cheap a character have a move can own you is noob stuf Kirby is cheap because you are a noob

Actually, each character have a powerfull move at his trump card, but kirby has all the smash at trump cards, the d air, the f air which sucks and the up b easy to dodge -> thats can be very anoying, its equivalent a second jump, and its kinda imposibble to avoid hit because:

1) You want to go over (up) kirby, and you do the second jumps, but kirby jumps and do the up b (or the up b only) and you fall to doom It's called mindgames. Don't be so predictable

2) you try to reah to the ledge or attack kirby, but kirby can smash you (fsmash or d smash) or spike you with d air, and you are doomed

3)You wanna try to reach down the stage and do a jump to reach the ledge, but you got owned because the spike of kirby, and his 5 jump, that can go very tall (for example, you are very dow in hyrule, and you can reach the ledge with the 3rd jump, so kirby do the dair where you are, and he gets more down... to a normal character (even jiglypuff) cant reach the borderr, but kirby YES, 5 jumps mas Up b, and the pik ball is safely.

You see, even the up air is useful, because has the kirby circle with a hit box. ITS the LAMMEST. If you're getting hit by kirby's u-air then you need to play better. It has VERY limited used

And, Ness isnt cheap, he has the worst disvantage, a horrrible 3rd jump, and a slow 2 nd jump (Yoshi at least have a quick 2nd jump and invincible in many frames, but ness doesn't)
Ness is by far more cheap than kirby. Period.

Sorry for my bad english u^^

I still don't get it. Kirby ISN'T cheap. The only "cheap" thing he can do is his d-air. Whoopty doo.

Luigi: u-b, d-b, u-tilt, u-smash, d-air (this is worse than kirby's)

Ness: grabs, d-air, u-tilt, d-tilt, smashes, d-air infinite, psi shield (I wouldn't say this normally but after playing a ness who would run away to heal from the arwings it's hella gay)

Kirby: d-air


Cheap my ***.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

It's official. If you think Kirby is "cheap" and "overpowered" then you are a complete noob and have no idea what you are talking about. Kirby isn't even slightly cheap, whereas if you look at Ness and Luigi who are blatantly overpowered (I mean it. It's so obvious if you can't see it then your ********) it's easy to see who the real "noob" and "cheap" chars are.

your one of the biggest noobs ive ever seen and also if you can't beat a ness in a 1v1 where your kirby, you just suck

 

[PrimaryFox]

I wouldn't have said it in such terms but yeah I agree with superboom. I was very surprised at Jazriel's comment, all he has to do is take one look at the tier list discussion to know the general consensus is kirby is top tier and luigi is bottom. Unless hes right and 98% of everyone else is wrong.

-PF

 

[Jazriel]

Oh, I'm sorry if I play against good people. So stfu. You're all ******** and I have proof. Yet another example of why kirby isn't "cheap" or "overpowered".

Kirby's obscene shieldstun can be blatantly abused by link. Wall + shielded kirby + u-tilting link = dead kirby. Where's the "overpowered" puffball now? He's dead.

Superboom, stfu. You're an idiot. I can't beat a 1v1 ness? Of course I can. Is it easy? No. Why? Not because I play good people, but because he's ness. I've fought almost complete noobs before and have come close to losing just because they use ness. It doesn't matter if I go to edgeguard when they just spam d-air and because of it's ****ed up hitbox AND spike, I die. I've played against good ness' before and been completely *****. Why? Because he's OVERPOWERED. That simple.

Now, there's always the chance that I'm not as good as my opponents (which happens occassionaly) and I realize that and I don't complain. But when I have some ****ing noob throw me at 35ish% and kill me? **** that.


Like I said, if you think kirby is cheap then you are just seriously ****ed up in the head.