Why is she number 1?

[Zonderion]

I'm not sure if raising the timer would work. Imagine you are trying to win the tournament and stalling will secure you the win. I'm not sure that adding a few minutes will stop someone from stalling, especially if it means a grand prize.

I agree that a shorter time will lead to stalled matches, but what if there were consequences to stalling for a win?

There could be some difficulty in judging, but ultimately we have two crowds to please. Players and spectators. Players will do ANYTHING legal for the win, including stalling. Spectators want short, highlight worthy matches.

So if we could come up with a legit way of preventing stalling, it could be one step closer to having what both players and spectators want. Outlandish?

 

[Gawain]

I could go into all the reasons they are the same, but I won't. I wasn't comparing the games, but I was comparing the spectators, specifically the mind sets. Just about anything can be compared and contrasted, and to think you don't understand that simple concept is "mind boggling". They are both sports, they both have offensive and defensive maneuvers and they both try to score points. I could keep going, but those are some simple comparisons. And yes, you can contrast the two as well.

Why does Melee take WAY more time? Why is Brawl not on stage events? You make these assertions, but provide not a single solution. Heck, you even evade possible solutions that other people suggest. You are only arguing against one playstyle that Rosalina has. But her playstyle is not the root of the problem. In order to actually solve problems, you have to understand why they happen.

As far as I understand it the problem is this: The Smash community does not like matches that take a long time.
But is that really the underlying problem? I would say its not. I would say the problem is the smash community doesn't like waiting.

To take your point about what they are watching is a lot of standing around, I completely agree! 100%. But that is not Rosalina's fault. That is not any specific character's fault. It is the TO's fault. They are the ones that become unorganized and fail to minimize down time between matches. They allow coaching between matches, should there be a time limit on that? I think so. I would say 30 seconds. If you can't get the advice you need in 30 seconds, then get off the stage. If you can't hold your bladder for 15 minutes, then get off the stage. The TOs are the ones that should enforce these rules.

So I ask you, what are some solutions? I suggested changing the match time from 5 minutes to 2 or 3 minutes, but you completely ignored that. If 4-5 minutes is too long for a match, then why not shorten the match length? Would it not force a much more aggressive game play from characters that CAN play defensively?

Maybe events should put a cap on the number of entrants? Having too many entrants can make the rounds take longer.

You shouldn't debate for the sake of debating, but to find a solution to a problem.

Are you joking me? I thought you were making a witty little joke with the 2-3 minute match limit. Do you seriously not understand the problem with that? Literally every 2 stock match with Rosalina would end in a time out if the matches were forced to be that short. People don't like long matches, for the most part, but what they like even less are time outs. Time outs are extremely unsatisfying and nobody thinks that the winner really earned the win in a time out. Other fighting games are only 90 seconds per round but have few time outs because the game is actually balanced into ending in a reasonable time because there aren't any characters (usually) with completely overbearing defensive powers.

And no, I stand by what I said. A football game is comparable to an entire tournament. Not a game of Smash. I already told you why the point you're trying to make doesn't make sense at all. Football spectators are fine with a whole game taking hours, just like how Smash spectators are fine with the final bracket taking a few hours. Nobody wants to see individual rounds taking a long time.

And for a solution? The honest to god truth is that there is no solution with regards to Rosalina. It's just the way it is. Most of the other matchups are fine and end quickly enough to make everyone happy. Even with characters who rely more on spacing, like WFT. The reason it doesn't work with Rosalina is because it's just so much stronger than any of the other spacing types, and the mechanics of the game (really strong shields, fast spots and rolls) just add to it. You can increase the timer sure, but that's only going to make timeouts less likely. It's not going to decrease game time while also avoiding time outs. Nothing will. But this thread isn't about that. It's about the notion that this character is somehow not top tier. Which is patently untrue.

 

[Zonderion]

Are you joking me? I thought you were making a witty little joke with the 2-3 minute match limit. Do you seriously not understand the problem with that? Literally every 2 stock match with Rosalina would end in a time out if the matches were forced to be that short. People don't like long matches, for the most part, but what they like even less are time outs. Time outs are extremely unsatisfying and nobody thinks that the winner really earned the win in a time out. Other fighting games are only 90 seconds per round but have few time outs because the game is actually balanced into ending in a reasonable time because there aren't any characters (usually) with completely overbearing defensive powers.

And no, I stand by what I said. A football game is comparable to an entire tournament. Not a game of Smash. I already told you why the point you're trying to make doesn't make sense at all. Football spectators are fine with a whole game taking hours, just like how Smash spectators are fine with the final bracket taking a few hours. Nobody wants to see individual rounds taking a long time.

And for a solution? The honest to god truth is that there is no solution with regards to Rosalina. It's just the way it is. Most of the other matchups are fine and end quickly enough to make everyone happy. Even with characters who rely more on spacing, like WFT. The reason it doesn't work with Rosalina is because it's just so much stronger than any of the other spacing types, and the mechanics of the game (really strong shields, fast spots and rolls) just add to it. You can increase the timer sure, but that's only going to make timeouts less likely. It's not going to decrease game time while also avoiding time outs. Nothing will. But this thread isn't about that. It's about the notion that this character is somehow not top tier. Which is patently untrue.

Well I'm done with this "debate". You still fail at presenting solutions. You automatically think there is no solution rather than discussing different options. But I guess you know ALL, so let's ban Rosalina to keep the spectators happy.

 

[Aurora Sparkle]

This thread is asking the question why should we consider Rosalina to be THE BEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME.

Nobody here is debating the fact that she's a Top Tier character. But is she the best character in the entire game? In my opinion, not even close.
Rosalina has a lot of strengths, but she also has many weaknesses. Pure rushdown characters can give her a really difficult time, and studying the matchups more closely have helped us learn that even characters like Zelda and Mario can give her trouble. She also has difficulty against characters like Link, who has the ability to take the control of the match away from her with 3 really good projectiles, a multitude of quick, low-lag hard hitting moves, and a disjointed hitbox that outranges a lot of her approach options.

Whether you want to admit it or not, as the Metagame develops- the way the game and matches are played are consistently going to change before a norm is ever settled upon. Mewtwo hasn't even been added as a character yet, and nobody knows how the meta will change once he's on the roster. For all we know he could end up a hard counter to Diddy.

Anyways, it's seriously pointless arguing with this guy- because he's absolutely convinced that Rosalina is a broken character that invalidates most of the cast, who can only play a single overly defensive playstyle, based on one single tournament player's history with her- despite the fact that there are probably hundreds of other Rosalina mains who prove otherwise.

It's F**kin exhausting. I should be using this time to practice my Jab spam and Timer stalling.

 

[LaunchStar]

As a Rosalina main, I will concede that she's in need of a tiny bit of balancing.
However, some characters can wipe the floor with her, like Captain Falcon for instance. Speed is Rosalina's worst enemy (in my opinion, other Rosalina mains probably have different banes of their existence).

It's all about prediction with Rosalina. You've got to read what she's going to do with Luma, with her Gravitational Pull, and with her Star Bits. Does this make her difficult to go against? Of course, but like all characters there's generally a pattern that players fall into.

Jumping over a Luma Shot, predicting her follow-up move, and punishing her for it is a very reliable strategy. Rosalina is constantly getting refined and tweaked with each patch (as with the other characters), so balance shouldn't be too far away.

It takes a Rosalina to beat a Rosalina though, so familiarizing yourself with how she operates and some standard techniques with her will help you SO MUCH in the future. So many people are willing to just write Rosalina off as an OP or broken character and call it a day, but there's nothing worse than people who blame from ignorance. Playing as her for a while will really help you predict and punish in the future.

As for other things... well, Rosalina is a challenge, right? Both playing as her and against is actually pretty difficult. Did you want Smash to be easy? You're not going to win every single match you play in. Too many times have I seen people rage-quit in online play or couching. Instead of giving up, keep trying and map out your strategy to crush her. It will be all the more satisfying when you finally do get your anti-Rosalina spray working and she's no longer a threat to you.

Personally, when I lose a match online, I re-play that person 5 times before I move on. It's not only a good sportsmanship attitude, but a learning experience as well.

In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if a universal set of anti-Rosalina techniques were developed and she ceased being the powerhouse she is now. And hey, maybe you'll be the one to come up with that technique if you keep figuring out new and creative ways to murder Luma.

(also, people are going to complain about the #1 character no matter who it is)

 

[gameprodigy12]

I mean she's not number 1 or OP like the minority of people claim her to be, but she still is a top tier character just cause of her many strengths that outweigh her few weaknesses. The rest are just a players weakness at this point in time. She is one of the best in game but in terms if being "the" best, no she isn't.

 

[CyberZixx]

Rosalina is fine. Any silly element of hers was nerfed already. She is not amazing, but possibly still 10ten. Shame the thread got derailed like that. I knew people were gonna attack Rosalina once Smash 4 at Apex took so long. I say, good stuff to Dabuz, he played very smart. Some folk, can't appreciate that.

 

[Aurora Sparkle]

Rosalina is fine. Any silly element of hers was nerfed already. She is not amazing, but possibly still 10ten. Shame the thread got derailed like that. I knew people were gonna attack Rosalina once Smash 4 at Apex took so long. I say, good stuff to Dabuz, he played very smart. Some folk, can't appreciate that.

Thank you. Someone gets it at least.
-and I agree, I think shes fine the way she currently is and doesn't need to be nerfed anymore that she already has been. IMO she's actually quite balanced. She has just enough weaknesses to balance out her strengths. I think one of the biggest issues is that people aren't really taking the time to really learn her matchup. It's not just about fighting the occasional crummy Rosalina on For Glory but actually playing against a good, dedicated Rosalina and discovering what works against her and what doesn't.
I also agree that playing her for yourself can also help to understand her strengths and her limits.

Just like people say that we'll eventually all learn to adapt to the Diddy matchup and things will simmer down on that front, I feel like the same goes for the Rosalina matchup. She's just controversial right now because she's the first of her kind of player type in a Smash Bros game, and people haven't fully adapted to how to fight against her. I bet before this year is over even, Rosalina's "OPness" won't even be talked about anymore.

 

[Rosalina _88]

I'm convinced that any crying about a character being OP in Smash 4 is more a reflection of the player than the character.

 

[Gawain]

This thread is asking the question why should we consider Rosalina to be THE BEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME.

Nobody here is debating the fact that she's a Top Tier character. But is she the best character in the entire game? In my opinion, not even close.
Rosalina has a lot of strengths, but she also has many weaknesses. Pure rushdown characters can give her a really difficult time, and studying the matchups more closely have helped us learn that even characters like Zelda and Mario can give her trouble. She also has difficulty against characters like Link, who has the ability to take the control of the match away from her with 3 really good projectiles, a multitude of quick, low-lag hard hitting moves, and a disjointed hitbox that outranges a lot of her approach options.

Whether you want to admit it or not, as the Metagame develops- the way the game and matches are played are consistently going to change before a norm is ever settled upon. Mewtwo hasn't even been added as a character yet, and nobody knows how the meta will change once he's on the roster. For all we know he could end up a hard counter to Diddy.

Anyways, it's seriously pointless arguing with this guy- because he's absolutely convinced that Rosalina is a broken character that invalidates most of the cast, who can only play a single overly defensive playstyle, based on one single tournament player's history with her- despite the fact that there are probably hundreds of other Rosalina mains who prove otherwise.

It's F**kin exhausting. I should be using this time to practice my Jab spam and Timer stalling.

Keep putting words in my mouth and keep it up with the personal jabs.

I have yet to see any evidence that she's not in the top 3 characters. I have yet to see reasons for how characters like DK/Mac/Marth/etc, who are outspaced and outprioritized, aren't being hard countered by Rosalina. Not like I should have expected serious discussion about the character at an upper level here. You'll do anything to avoid admitting she's one of the best because you main her.

 

[Enrel]

Keep putting words in my mouth and keep it up with the personal jabs.

I have yet to see any evidence that she's not in the top 3 characters. I have yet to see reasons for how characters like DK/Mac/Marth/etc, who are outspaced and outprioritized, aren't being hard countered by Rosalina. Not like I should have expected serious discussion about the character at an upper level here. You'll do anything to avoid admitting she's one of the best because you main her.

Nobody said that she doesn't hard counter some people, but considering today is valentines I feel like you need a little cheer in your life today and not be so negative.

http://www.vgcats.com/news/valen/falcon.jpg

Enjoy ^_^

 

[Aurora Sparkle]

Keep putting words in my mouth and keep it up with the personal jabs.

I have yet to see any evidence that she's not in the top 3 characters. I have yet to see reasons for how characters like DK/Mac/Marth/etc, who are outspaced and outprioritized, aren't being hard countered by Rosalina. Not like I should have expected serious discussion about the character at an upper level here. You'll do anything to avoid admitting she's one of the best because you main her.

No offense, but all I've done is reiterate everything that you here have presented yourself about the character. I haven't been putting words in your mouth. Anyone here including yourself can go back and read your posts and see for themselves that everything that began this argument in the first place was some sort of misinformation said by you. You've posted a lot of incorrect (like actually seriously WRONG) "facts" about the character based on your personal bias against her for whatever reason (it's pretty clear that you've never actually studied Rosalina in depth), and when anyone including myself has tried to counter those points with legitimate information, you ignore it, you backtrack on what you have said, and you run the discussion in circles, accusing everyone else of being ignorant when you're the one who's ignoring the clear facts.

Of course there is serious discussion about all aspects of Rosalina on the ROSALINA Board. Whether or not you want to actually take part in that discussion or not, is your problem. Funnily enough, It's kind of hard to have a serious discussion with someone when they're intent on going LA LA LA with their fingers in their ears at anything that doesn't suit their agenda.

Anyways, I've said what I needed to say, and it's clear that this discussion is going nowhere. Respond if you want, but I'm not going to waste my time responding back anymore.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It has come to my attention that this thread has been stirring up an unneeded flame war. As such, this thread is now locked from further posting.