Why give advantages to projectile spammers on For Glory?

[JehJehKeyblade]

The restriction to Omega Stages allows for some serious spam from Fox, Falco, Sheik, Samus, etc. If Nintendo added some other fair stages to the list, like Battlefield and Smashville, maybe this mode would be TRULY balanced. And yes, I know it's fair either way. I'm not complaining TOO much. It's just a minor gripe.

 

[Vincent21]

Actually, just own this opinion outright. Its more than a minor gripe.

The difference between having to fight Duck Hunt, Villy, Pacman, Rosa etc. WITH PLATFORMS Is massive. Having multiples avenues to approach a character controlling the strait with projectiles is a really big deal, and it gives these characters distinct advantages in a large swath of their match-ups when you're forced to face ram them. Being FORCED to go through needles as opposed to forcing a Shiek player to space their opponent through various stage levels gives them a huge buff to their space control. This is a really critical point.

 

[outfoxd]

Actually, just own this opinion outright. Its more than a minor gripe.

The difference between having to fight Duck Hunt, Villy, Pacman, Rosa etc. WITH PLATFORMS Is massive. Having multiples avenues to approach a character controlling the strait with projectiles is a really big deal, and it gives these characters distinct advantages in a large swath of their match-ups when you're forced to face ram them. Being FORCED to go through needles as opposed to forcing a Shiek player to space their opponent through various stage levels gives them a huge buff to their space control. This is a really critical point.

It is worth noting platforms gives someone good with the offending characters a different set of advantages and disadvantages.

Having only Omega stages is overly limiting in general, regardless.

 

[RBreadsticks]

It definetly gives projectile characters an inherent advantage but some of the most common on for glory (like link) are stopped simply by proper power sheilding. I do agree that battlefield or battlefield esque stages should be added to for glory mode to mix it up.

 

[Saclam]

Omega stages does get stale after awhile,adding in battlefield type stages is a plus.

Projectile spammers are everywhere online but most of them never mix it up,just the same predictable pattern over again.if you fought one spammer,you pretty much fought the rest of them.

 

[JehJehKeyblade]

I agree. A Battlefield type option should be available along with Omega Stages. Called Kapa Stages or Alpha Stages? But besides that, the platforms in Battlefield DO provide more balance than Final Destination in my opinion. Characters such as Ganondorf and Luigi do significantly better on these stages. I can't see any characters who aren't being controlled by spammers doing worse on Battlefield.

 

[Morbi]

The answer to the question in the thread title is that Sakurai believes that a stage without platforms is the most neutral stage. Some characters favor omega variations, some favor stages with platforms. That is a part of the game, and I doubt he intentionally wanted to give zoners an advantage over everyone. Most characters in the game have one projectile as it is. So it is a viable tactic for a great portion of players. Characters without projectiles have other attributes to compensate for their overt lack of a projectile. Without a counter-picking system or stage strikes, Final Destination was the most logical choice for the standard stage (albeit, they could have had a 50/50 random stage select option). I honestly feel as though if the omega variations were based off of Smashville that we would have the perfect system.

Play For Glory as you would play any other fighting game. Jump over the projectiles intelligently, or block the projectiles as you approach. You do not even take chip damage in Smash. Pressure your opponent properly as most projectiles are unsafe. Or you could always counter-zone. I am sure we will have a better online system in the future; however, we must learn to deal with what we are given.

 

[JehJehKeyblade]

Oh, thanks for telling me. I'll keep this in mind.

 

[Vincent21]

Characters without projectiles have other attributes to compensate for their overt lack of a projectile.

"Not ALL of us!," growled a clearly offended Ganondorf.

 

[K7Sniper]

This is the big negative of timed matches. It really rewards certain playstyles and characters.

Then again, so do stock matches. *shrug*

 

[link2702]

cuz nintendo never thought for glory out completely in the first place.

They also handed little mac his best stage on a silver platter with for glory mode(not that it makes too much a difference as most macs are still pretty easy to deal with.). Nintendo just flat out didn't think things through. They listened to a dumb meme/stereotype and data from basic brawl during its lifespan, and decided that final destination *MUST* be the most neutral/fair stage in the game, as opposed to listening to input from actual competitive players.

However, just look on the bright side, projectile campers did receive a nerf overall compared to brawl. Sure we've got duck hunt, and shiek's needles to worry about. But compare that to brawl falco's laser game, pit's arrows, ( i miss having my brawl arrows) toon link's wall of projectiles, and others from brawl where the projectiles were a lot more effective.

 

[Vincent21]

This is the big negative of timed matches. It really rewards certain playstyles and characters.

Then again, so do stock matches. *shrug*

Well I mean time is kind of actually necessary. It creates incentive.

Sorry, but if the game literally doesn't end until all stocks clear, whoever has more patience wins. Even a person at a stock deficit could just get nice and comfy in a selected camp spot until their opponent is just done wasting time and engages on their terms. No one HAS to do anything because nothing will happen to the gamestate if both players sit still, despite who played better up until that point. Like if online matches worked that way people could literally stall until you had to go to bed, or work, or school, and fraud you that way. Or you're forced to come to them, on their terms.

Basically, just imagine playing against Chu Dat's PM Kirby without a timer, and you have go to work later that day. There is literally nothing keeping him from holding you until you quit. This is extreme hyperbole just to prove a point; time is really important. Need to make sure both players are actually forced to keep advancing the gamestate.

cuz nintendo never thought for glory out completely in the first place.

They also handed little mac his best stage on a silver platter with for glory mode(not that it makes too much a difference as most macs are still pretty easy to deal with.). Nintendo just flat out didn't think things through. They listened to a dumb meme/stereotype and data from basic brawl during its lifespan, and decided that final destination *MUST* be the most neutral/fair stage in the game, as opposed to listening to input from actual competitive players.

However, just look on the bright side, projectile campers did receive a nerf overall compared to brawl. Sure we've got duck hunt, and shiek's needles to worry about. But compare that to brawl falco's laser game, pit's arrows, ( i miss having my brawl arrows) toon link's wall of projectiles, and others from brawl where the projectiles were a lot more effective.

Little Mac, believe it or not, actually likes Battlefield platforms in certain match-ups. The either of having to get a character with literally ZERO airgame through kinds of ground games Villagers and Duck Hunt and Sheik can impose on you is terrible without a place to throw ground moves from... that isn't the ground. Flat areas advantage passive zoners, not aggressive characters like Mac or Falcon.

Not to mention if you've been following Smash 4s short but very real tourney life you'd be painfully aware that this Smash sees more defense play than any that came before it, even Brawl. Plenty of time out matches and camping. Toon Link didn't go anywhere, and we got Rosalina, a different Olimar, Duck Hunt, and Pacman. Link became playable. We got Megaman and Villager too. I have no idea what you're talking about, honestly.

 

[JNET]

Came in expecting a whine rant on projectiles, pleasantly surprised with a reasonable request. GG.

I think most agree, even if its for sake of stage mixup, that adding Battlefield/Smashville stages to FG would make things much better overall.

 

[Deleted member]

Final Destination favors certain characters and hurts others. Infamously, Fox preforms well on this stage because of how fast he is and how campy he can be. On the other hand, a character like Robin struggles as he isn't very fast and there isn't much room for him to work with.

I think that For Glory should expand by adding a Battlefield version and maybe even a Smashville version of every stage. Not only would it make the fights more interesting as there are different layouts each time, but it changes how the battle goes.

This is something that I desperately want.

 

[Conn1496]

To be honest, I think that the Omega stages were just generally a bit of a cop-out, regardless of them making FG hard for certain characters. A lot of stages that have already fair platform set-ups could have just been kept as is, or even adapted in as Omega variations for other stages - or even in the case of stages that change, but have one fairly balanced platform set-up (Here's looking at you stages like Arena Ferox, both Poké-stages, potentially even 3D land. >.>.), the Omega stages could have just been variations on the stage, just frozen in time. Hecks, you don't even need platforms to neccisarily change the stage's balance, a simple terrain difference or stage tilting could alter that.

Either way, I'm not too bothered by the "FINAL DESTINATION" approach to FG, even as someone who alts notoriously slower characters like Robin and Dorf, since most projectile spammers who win me aren't learning a damn thing about the game, while I get a hefty tutorial on how I should not avoid projectiles. lol
[Plus it usually only takes me one or two games to catch on to their BS shenannigans and kick their behinds. Teehee. :V]

 

[dahuterschuter]

Why?

Because the dev team wanted to flip the bird to anyone who likes to play Smash 1v1 and so put in the "no items, Final Destination only" meme instead of actually making a proper 1v1 playlist. That, or they honestly believe that Final Destination has no character biases, in which case they're just somehow incompetent in regards to the game that they are making. All it would take is to add Battlefield to the mix, but that will never happen, and so For Glory itself is bias towards certain characters as a playlist.

Although, the age of spammers seems to be largely over. Tonight I played for a few hours and only ran across a Duck Hunt and two Samuses. Everyone left seems to have moved on to the top characters and all play them exactly the same way because dominant strategy. In three hours I saw only those aforementioned characters, and then it was exclusively Zero Suit Samus, Sonic and, way more than any other character, Nesses galore.

 

[JehJehKeyblade]

Yeah... I hate that stereotypical vision of competitive smash. But why Nintendo supports it, I will never know. What's next? We only use Fox?

And about the spammer thing, you seem to be lucky. I encountered a guy who spammed Falco's Blaster and Falco Phantasm.

 

[Wintropy]

To be fair, Omega Mode is equally imbalanced towards rushdown fighters like Little Mac and Captain Falcon. Not that those characters are inherently flawed or players should feel bad for playing them, just that the lack of platforms or safe spaces can be massively beneficial to them in certain circumstances. Even having Battlefield variations would be a huge boon. It'd certainly make matches more interesting and dynamic.