Why doesn't ganon win tournaments?

[megacrusher9999]

I'm curious

 

[TheCandyman]

Mobility. Ganon is slow with a pretty bad WD and his frame data isn't that good at all.

And in a mobile fighting game like Smash it is tough being a slow character. Look at the top 8. All of the characters are either fast or have a way to make up for it. Fox, Falcon, and Marth all have fantastic DD game and Sheik has a great run speed.

Marth, ICs, and Spacies benefit heavily from WD

Jigglypuff has fantastic air mobility and multiple jumps leading to great camping game with Bairs (see: Hbox)

And Falco while he is definitely slow, he has lasers which provide amazing control and helps him keep up with every character.

 

[megacrusher9999]

It seems to me that if better players played ganon they could overcome this

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Because there are not a lot of good Ganon players. This is a silly question.

 

[whoknowswhat]

It seems to me that if better players played ganon they could overcome this

Or those better players could just use characters that don't hinder their abilities.

 

[-ACE-]

1. Bad neutral game
2. Lack of moves where hitboxes come out quickly
3. Lack of moves without massive cooldown time (most moves and maneuvers are a big commitment)
4. Lack of hitboxes that reach low
5. Sh*tty DJ
6. Slow WD
7. Below average DD
8. Excellent combo weight
9. Big target
10. Bad recovery
11. Above average lag on l-canceled aerials
12. Inability to cover techchase options as effectively as faster characters
13. Massive learning curve for developing a solid punish game
14. Massive learning curve for developing a strong defensive game
15. Massive learning curve for becoming a good edgeguarder
16. Ganons worst matchups are against the most popular characters
17. The stage list and rules benefit other characters more than Ganon because of his weaknesses
18. He has very few matchups that are not a formidable challenge at high level
19. More representation is needed
20. Linguini retired trololol

 

[-ACE-]

Did I mention his options oos could be better?

 

[Vestboy_Myst]

It seems to me that if better players played ganon they could overcome this

what specific thing gives you reason to think that? or is it just wishful thinking
also what is the 'this' you are referring to in your post? mobility in general? even the best ganon player is stuck with his below average mobility in a highly mobile fighting game

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

@ M megacrusher9999

1. Bad neutral game
2. Lack of moves where hitboxes come out quickly
3. Lack of moves without massive cooldown time (most moves and maneuvers are a big commitment)
4. Lack of hitboxes that reach low
5. Sh*tty DJ
6. Slow WD
7. Below average DD
8. Excellent combo weight
9. Big target
10. Bad recovery
11. Above average lag on l-canceled aerials
12. Inability to cover techchase options as effectively as faster characters
13. Massive learning curve for developing a solid punish game
14. Massive learning curve for developing a strong defensive game
15. Massive learning curve for becoming a good edgeguarder
16. Ganons worst matchups are against the most popular characters
17. The stage list and rules benefit other characters more than Ganon because of his weaknesses
18. He has very few matchups that are not a formidable challenge at high level
19. More representation is needed
20. Linguini retired trololol

A lot of these issues affect other characters on the lower rungs of the tier lists as well. Characters like Bowser have arsenals choked full of high damage/knock back moves but because of things like laggy aerials requiring lots of commitment in neutral, terrible wavedashes, and an inability to recover they don't stock up to more mobile characters who can use a lot of their nifty high-speed / priority options right out of their dash dances.

EDIT:

All the above being said it doesn't mean people are going to suddenly wake up and realize their favorite characters have bad data / hard match-ups (they already know this). Dedicated players are going to continue developing low-tier metagames regardless. I'll still polish and play my Bowser in friendlies even if he does suck.

 

[-ACE-]

Bowser's just fvcked.

 

[Poopmaster]

Yeah, there are not a lot of top Ganon players besides Bizz, Kage, and Eikelmann (all l can think of). None of them have considerable records playing against top players so currently Ganondorf as a character just doesn't place high in tournies.

 

[-ACE-]

Linguini and spider_sense are pretty much right there. Tipman close also. Renth, Pseudoturtle, TM, myself, and actually most Ganons that post here aren't far behind imo. Ganon needs more representation but the people who do main Ganon are badasses.

 

[Superspright]

Perhaps someday we'll figure out the recipe to bring him further up...it pisses me off that luigi has better representation than Ganondorf.

 

[hi im dennis]

Ganon is slow and fat. All you have to do is evade his slow, laggy aerials then go in for an 80% combo or a KO.

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon is slow and fat. All you have to do is evade his slow, laggy aerials then go in for an 80% combo or a KO.

Money match?

 

[Fitzrightin]

Pretty easy to answer

Ganon's extremely powerful, for sure, but he's also slow as ballsack and that's not an exaggeration. That and his neutral game isn't great either

 

[gmBottles]

Bowser's just fvcked.

Can confirm, Bowser has no hope.

Ganon can win locals, maybe a small regional, but he just struggles against the commonly played characters too much to stand a chance, even in the right hands.