Why does Roy's counter bounce people off of the air?

[Darklink401]

Half the time when I counter my opponent's moves, they go up diagonally, then suddenly they go down diagonally for no appearant reason.

What is this.

 

[kingPiano]

I'm guessing your "opponents" are CPUs

 

[Darklink401]

Yes :3

...does that have anything to do with it? O.o

 

[kingPiano]

Not necessarily, but they are much more susceptible to it. It has to do with the Fire effect and a glitch in the coding where a counter is registered as a hit and block at the same time, they used to call it the invisible ceiling glitch. For Roy it happens because the opponent is under the fire effect still when the reach the star KO line and it causes something weird to happen - the KB angle is reflected instead of them dying of the top like they are supposed to.

Roy's counter can also has a weird glitch where it's knock-back angle can stack with attacks following it. You counter an attack and then you attack them after countering, so after a counter if you follow up with a regular Fsmash it can possibly send your opponents at negative angles. They have to still be under the fire effect though, so it's hard to do and rare.

 

[Darklink401]

That is so weird xD

Also wait what? So like if they're still under the fire effect and I do an attack to thin air, the knockback will stack? xD

 

[kingPiano]

That is so weird xD

Also wait what? So like if they're still under the fire effect and I do an attack to thin air, the knockback will stack? xD

No you have to land the following attack on them. There are matches where Sethlon and Ninja had pulled it off accidentally.

 

[Darklink401]

No you have to land the following attack on them. There are matches where Sethlon and Ninja had pulled it off accidentally.

Oh I get it.

Negative angles being things like Sheik's fair and Link's semispiek up B?

 

[kingPiano]

Oh I get it.

Negative angles being things like Sheik's fair and Link's semispiek up B?

Link's late grounded UpB hitboxes can have KB angles at a 0 degrees and Shiek's Fair has a 25 degree so those are both technically positive but they appear negative because of how fast gravity occurs. The combined KB angle of the counter glitch can actually create an angle in the 4th quadrant from 270 to 359 degrees I call it negative since it's below the plane.

 

[Darklink401]

Link's late grounded UpB hitboxes can have KB angles at a 0 degrees and Shiek's Fair has a 25 degree so those are both technically positive but they appear negative because of how fast gravity occurs. The combined KB angle of the counter glitch can actually create an angle in the 4th quadrant from 270 to 359 degrees I call it negative since it's below the plane.

Oh dang. Anyone find out how to use that effectively yet, or too situational?

 

[kingPiano]

Oh dang. Anyone find out how to use that effectively yet, or too situational?

It's been known about since like 2008, it's too situational as I said. And also for it to be effective they'd have to be completely off the stage and at high enough percent that the counter or following attack would have killed them at the blast lines anyways.

 

[Link24a]

Not necessarily, but they are much more susceptible to it. It has to do with the Fire effect and a glitch in the coding where a counter is registered as a hit and block at the same time, they used to call it the invisible ceiling glitch. For Roy it happens because the opponent is under the fire effect still when the reach the star KO line and it causes something weird to happen - the KB angle is reflected instead of them dying of the top like they are supposed to.

What does it mean that it's registered as a block? Also this doesn't just happen when the opponent hits the top blast zone.

 

[kingPiano]

What does it mean that it's registered as a block? Also this doesn't just happen when the opponent hits the top blast zone.

In the coding it's a block since you don't take any damage (like a powershield) and attack. It doesn't have to occur at the blast line, the glitch can occur much much lower where it thinks it has hit the blast line already because of the way Roy's counter alters the incoming attack's knockback velocity. The lower reflection also occurs when it combines with another attack's trajectory. It's very strange and hard to explain, and it's not always the same in how it reacts which is why it's not a strategy or useful tech.

 

[Link24a]

The lower reflection occurs only when it combines with another attack's trajectory.

This happens in 1v1 with single-hit attacks...

 

[djmath]

invisible ceiling glitch occurs if your opponent is moving/holding a direction when hit with counter and not yet out of stun. It's complicated, but that's the shortest simplest explanation afaik.

 

[Link24a]

invisible ceiling glitch occurs if your opponent is moving/holding a direction when hit with counter and not yet out of stun. It's complicated, but that's the shortest simplest explanation afaik.

that honestly makes more sense

 

[lolazerz]

It's happened to me 2 twice in tourney, both ageist Foxes, and both countering the shine

 

[Vesne]

This is super late but the correct answer can be seen here. It happens if you have used your shield at all on that stock before the counter and you use your counter against one of your opponents grounded non-projectile attacks.

This is not related to the fire effect it applies, blastzone locations, or moving during hitstun/hitlag.