Why does PM "feel" different?

[Rachman]

Almost every Melee player who tries PM agrees that PM "feels" different. I'm mostly wondering why is that? Is it because of the different art style/animations/sounds? Or is it something else entirely?

 

[Rachman]

**** this was supposed to be in the PM general discussion....I suck at forums. Well, maybe Melee players know more about this anyways

 

[Xyzz]

P:M isn't a exact copy. They're trying to be in terms of the melee high tiers, but there's just some mechanics where the P:M developers haven't figured out how to make the game that shall not be named behave like melee yet (or where it's not reasonably possible with the methods they have available). I think I recall something about jump acceleration working differently in the two games for example.

 

[AirFair]

Tech windows are less strict, so melee's controls are tighter.

 

[steakhouse]

i kinda feel like it's related to hitlag. I feel like theres more hitlag in PM for both the attacker and the attacked (like there's a slight delay before you are launched). could be wrong

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

isn't there like a one-frame delay they couldn't get around as well?

-hitshieldstun is way less, making shielding like.. bad in general
-b-moves are more powerful, making neutral-game less about spacing and more about which moves will have priority
-characters are more powerful overall, instead of more evenly weak

this style of balancing rewards more aggressive, slightly more reckless play, nearly punishes defensive play, and removes some of the neutral game (with the advance of b-moves).

 

[Narpas_sword]

This is one difference.
One i feel a lot when i go back to melee.

No. The main difference is that to dash behind you when not currently in the dash action (not DDing already) Melee requires you to move the stick from neutral to past the dashing threshold (0.80) in a single frame, or else you get stuck in a slow turning animation for 5-9 frames (depends on character) before you actually start the dash behind you. If you press it in 1 frame the turn lasts for 1 frame instead. It's really stupid and if your controller is responsive near the neutral position or has more resistance than looser control sticks you need to slam the **** out of it to guarantee the fast turn. Dashing forward, however, you need to go from neutral to past the dash threshold in 2 frames (it allows 1 frame of walk). In PM it allows being in turn for 1 frame before you need to pass the dash threshold to fast turn, so you need to go from neutral to dash threshold in 2 frames.

Another difference is in Melee the re-dash threshold during dash is higher than the run threshold. If you dash, then go to dash again in the same direction you will go into run instead if the stick happens to get read while it's past the run threshold but not yet at the dash threshold. In PM the dash threshold during dash action matches the run threshold (0.62) so that issue doesn't come up.

Threshold to pivot in Melee is also the same as it is to dash during the turn, so to pivot you need to go past that for only 1 frame to turn then be back less than it to not dash. In PM the turn threshold during dash is less than it is to dash out of the pivot so there's a distance you can tilt to trigger the turn but not dash. Makes pivoting tilts a lot more doable.

Tech windows are less strict, so melee's controls are tighter.

This is super vague.

a lot of it is exactly the same as melee.
What are you referring to?

 

[AirFair]

Honest, I don't play pm so I can't tell you specifics, but I guess I mean like, certain frame windows are a little more than in melee, which can be bad when going from pm to melee.

 

[Y-L]

This is one difference.
One i feel a lot when i go back to melee.





This is super vague.

a lot of it is exactly the same as melee.
What are you referring to?

Probably the biggest example is that melee characters have +1 on their jump squat, which is really noticeable with Fox. 3 frame compared to 2 frame jumpsquat in melee.

 

[Now Disappear]

Although Project M has done a very very good job at becoming more like Melee, (Which I assume that was their goal),it's still brawl at its core and no amount of modding can change that. Also I'm on mobile so sorry for the rather awfully written post.

 

[Mastodon]

This is one difference.
One i feel a lot when i go back to melee.

This is super vague.

a lot of it is exactly the same as melee.
What are you referring to?

Its not all that vague, all I think he means is that PM has the 1 frame buffer on inputs, making timing certain inputs (such as something like wave shine) easier. To me, this is the biggest difference, as most of the characters from melee play similarly in PM, they just feel a bit easier to play since the tech skill can be a little looser.

The thing is, though, it still uses brawl's engine, so there are a few subtle things in the physics that make it feel more like brawl as opposed to melee. It does feel mostly like melee, but its just not quite as fluid and its also more forgiving (especially with the buffer). Of course there are more characters in the cast as well, and most of the cast from melee has been modified to make characters closer to even in power level amongst all the cast of brawl.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Its not all that vague, all I think he means is that PM has the 1 frame buffer on inputs,.

No, it doesn't.
It's a 0 frame buffer like melee.

 

[Bones0]

Probably the biggest example is that melee characters have +1 on their jump squat, which is really noticeable with Fox. 3 frame compared to 2 frame jumpsquat in melee.

Fox has 3 frames of jumpsquat in Melee though...

 

[Narpas_sword]

3 frames of jump-squat, but iirc, the game detects if the button is released before the last frame.

 

[Bones0]

3 frames of jump-squat, but iirc, the game detects if the button is released before the last frame.

Are you talking about the requirements to short hop? I'm quite certain that you only FH if you are still holding jump on the last frame of jumpsquat. A 1-frame button press to SH would be significantly harder.

Also, lol @ the similarities of our avatars.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Yea, im talking about shorthop. You're right that he has 3 frames of squat animation.
But that was the meaning of the 2 vs 3 thing that Y-L meant.

_b avatars

 

[AJawesome07]

You can do the thingy where you can quickly turn around after dashing in PM. Smash 4 has it too, and it opens up many more options.

 

[SAUS]

I feel like the camera jerks around waaaaaay more in brawl. I didn't realise how much I use the camera to tell me what's happening in melee until PM made me go "wtf?!?!".

I also find the difference in graphics messes me up. It just looks so different that I'm not ready for it lol.

 

[Narpas_sword]

The PM camera is different to the Brawl Camera.

It is different to melee though, and it will feel different, for like, a few games i guess.
Pretty easy to get familiar with.

 

[AJawesome07]

also, no light shielding. that's kind of a big deal.

 

[SAUS]

The PM camera is different to the Brawl Camera.

It is different to melee though, and it will feel different, for like, a few games i guess.
Pretty easy to get familiar with.

Meant to say PM in my post lol. I didn't know PM and Brawl cameras were different. Maybe it's just how I learned it or something. Others have told me it doesn't bother them much. I don't play that much PM, though, so it's not like I play it all the time and still notice it, I just notice it when I jump over to PM for some games.

 

[steakhouse]

PM camera became its own thing starting PM 3.0, not before.

Melee and PM cameras are still wildly different. Melee feels a bit more zoomed in and more centric whereas PM seems to always be perpendicular to the action and slightly less zoomed, avoiding people to go off-screen despite still being within stage boundaries.

 

[Deleted member]

i think pm should be considered its own game, not just a hd version of melee and not just a mod for brawl but its own game. it wont be exactly like melee unless they literally copy code from melee but i think it should be considered its own game.

 

[NinArias]

I have taken a long break from project m and now when i go back to it, it feels much slower than melee

 

[Nokturnith]

Because it's a hack.

 

[joe411]

Because it's a hack.

/thread

 

[steakhouse]

I have taken a long break from project m and now when i go back to it, it feels much slower than melee

why it feels slower is OP's question.