Why do we need Amiibos to save AI data?

[DakotaBonez]

So, with these Amiibo figures, you can summon an opponent with AI that adapts to your playstyle by fighting it, in other words, the perfect opponent. I remember seeing a couple of threads dreaming of having this "Train an AI Opponent" feature in the next smash, however, I don't think any of us wanted to have to buy a figure for each character (no matter how cool the figures look)

I was wondering, do the Amiibo figures store the data within themselves, and is that data too much to be stored on the console?
Or, is this AI data be small enough to be stored to the console, or is the data stored to the console no matter what and the figures serve no purpose other than getting more cash out of us?

EDIT:

What I'm trying to find out is, how much data would a level 50 AI opponent like this take up? Is it more practical to store it in figures because the data usage would take up alot of memory?

 

[Fishbowl]

I suspect the figures are only a convenience for keeping the AI in one place/ bringing it to someone else's console.

But it's hard to know for sure. I feel sorry for collectors, especially if each figure will be around 15 bucks...

 

[Canuckduck]

I'm disappointed by how the Amiibo's will be implemented.

 

[Saito]

I feel sorry for collectors, especially if each figure will be around 15 bucks...

If they are a collector, I'm sure 15 won't be much to them, especially since they have more use than just standing around as well.

If I can watch people spend $100+ on model gundams without batting an eye, I'm sure there are dedicated people who won't mind buying 10-20 of those figurines, or even the whole roster for smash.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

I have no idea...

Won't stop me from getting a Luigi figure though.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The AI data is saved so people can use them to fight others, not because it can't be saved on the wii

It's specifically made so people can have others fight their trained character

Like pokemon

 

[StarshipGroove]

Getting more cash out of the players is correct. No other reason.

 

[Nstinct]

Will Luigi's face be from Mario Kart 8?

 

[ZanZero]

The AI data is saved so people can use them to fight others, not because it can't be saved on the wii

It's specifically made so people can have others fight their trained character

Like pokemon

This. ^
I really am surprised that people don't understand the idea behind this. I personally think it's a really novel concept for smash, and Nintendo in general. I thought skylanders was ****ing stupid, as was disney infinity, mainly because those games' figurines only had one use and basically zero functionality beyond that (and those games looked horrible...). Nintendo has stated that Amiibo will have tons of future uses for all sorts of games. Plus, training your own AI/Partner that you can physically take to a friends house to challenge them sounds ****ing awesome.
If you don't like it, then don't buy it.
Simple as that.

 

[Nstinct]

Plus, training your own AI/Partner that you can physically take to a friends house to challenge them sounds ****ing awesome.

I only hope Amiibo aren't just glorified level 16 cpu from Brawl. If they actually play very different from cpu and are better team conscious when they attack they could be worth it. If they can truly learn a playstyle from you that'd be a plus. If they can mimic your combos on whoever your playing against that would be the best piece to this puzzle.

 

[Hong]

Reggie said the pricing would be competitive with similar products, so $5-10 I think? Now, since that is, while a high price, about as much as you would expect for licensed figurines.

To get where this ties in with your topic, you need to look at it the other way; it's more about them adding value to amiibos, than adding value to Smash Bros. If you are like me and don't care about figurines yet you eat, sleep, and breathe Smash, you are not going to care about the amiibos unless they actually improve or enable your gameplay experience. Even if they released a figurine I MUST HAVE, as a competitive player fighting AI isn't particularly appealing, so I would never even utilize the functionality.

The amiibo is a standalone product in of itself. and they will add functionality for other products to add value to amiibos that is unique to that product. It's "Why should you buy amiibo?" versus "Why should you buy Smash?" If you are already someone who buys figurines, if you like Smash, it's quite the incentive to get your collectible from Nintendo compared to other manufacturers.

Basically promoting a product within the same brand.

 

[D-idara]

I want a Ridley one, a Samus one and a Sonic one :v

 

[Poxnixles]

Yeah, the amiibos save the data on the figures themselves. Sure you could possibly save the data on WiiMotes or something but who uses those for Smash?

 

[Renji64]

I'll just get one i don't like collecting that stuff.

 

[Superyoshiom]

I suspect the figures are only a convenience for keeping the AI in one place/ bringing it to someone else's console.

But it's hard to know for sure. I feel sorry for collectors, especially if each figure will be around 15 bucks...

Nintendo's essentially taking the master sword and stabbing it through my wallet.

 

[Reila]

We don't need it. Amiibos are just a way Nintendo found to make people spend even more money with their products.

 

[DakotaBonez]

I wonder just how much data can be stored in them. I mean, imagine if they implement a similar AI training feature in Mario Kart, now the Amiibo figure has to store data from smash bros AND mario kart. They could run out of memory pretty quick, which is why I suspected the data would be saved to the console regardless, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how they function specifically. Also, I could be severely overestimating how much data the Amiibo needs.

Do the figures have to be on the gamepad at all times? Like do you just swipe em over the NFC reader and the game loads up there data and then you can pick up the gamepad and continue playing? Or do you have to make sure they are in contact with the NFC at all times and you'll have to play the game with another controller to fight them? They were also advertising a seperate NFC stand that you hook up to your 3DS, so maybe it'll be compatible with the Wii U too. I just wanna be able to play smash solely with the gamepad.

 

[Riposte__]

We dont 'need' Amiibos, nor do we really 'need' smash bros. This is going to make Nintendo money hand over fist from both adult collector and kids though, so good on nintendo. I'd like to see character look Amiibo only tournys for fun.

 

[Ginger Hail]

I wonder just how much data can be stored in them. I mean, imagine if they implement a similar AI training feature in Mario Kart, now the Amiibo figure has to store data from smash bros AND mario kart. They could run out of memory pretty quick, which is why I suspected the data would be saved to the console regardless, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how they function specifically. Also, I could be severely overestimating how much data the Amiibo needs.

They've implied that Amiibos may have some functionality across multiple games, but they also have features tied to the game for which they're produced for. Too early to tell what they may do in other games.

Do the figures have to be on the gamepad at all times? Like do you just swipe em over the NFC reader and the game loads up there data and then you can pick up the gamepad and continue playing? Or do you have to make sure they are in contact with the NFC at all times and you'll have to play the game with another controller to fight them?

It seemed like they're scanned in and don't have to remain on the Gamepad at all times. Plus, the game supports multiple Amiibos at the same time while the Gamepad seems to only have one small area for NFC use.

They were also advertising a seperate NFC stand that you hook up to your 3DS, so maybe it'll be compatible with the Wii U too. I just wanna be able to play smash solely with the gamepad.

The 3DS has no NFC support natively, so that's why it requires the stand. Wii U already has support built in, so it probably won't support the stand. That said, you probably won't need to keep the figures on the pad all the time considering the evidence above.

 

[DakotaBonez]

It seemed like they're scanned in and don't have to remain on the Gamepad at all times. Plus, the game supports multiple Amiibos at the same time while the Gamepad seems to only have one small area for NFC use.

If this is the case, then all of the data is stored in the console eventually anyway and it could have been implemented without the figures.

 

[Hong]

If this is the case, then all of the data is stored in the console eventually anyway and it could have been implemented without the figures.

Correct. It is very much technically 100% possible without the need for the amiibos. Especially since the 3DS will get an adapter to read amiibo, despite the fact it's already portable.

It's entirely promotional. One could look at it as content being held back, or one could see it as content added specifically to promote another product. Either one is a dour implication, but business is business so I can't hold it against them..

 

[Vintage Creep]

I'm disappointed by how the Amiibo's will be implemented.

I'm actually relieved. They don't unlock stuff, they're completely unnecessary for the game itself and purely cosmetic. I don't have to buy them all, even if I'd like to do so.
Just imagine if Amiibos unlocked something as stupid and minimal as a trophy. They would be extremely frustrating.

 

[Superyoshiom]

We don't need it. Amiibos are just a way Nintendo found to make people spend even more money with their products.

The problem isn't that I don't need it. I want it. I want all of them...

 

[Reila]

The problem isn't that I don't need it. I want it. I want all of them...

Good for you. It is your money, you are free to buy whatever you want.

Me? I am just glad amiibos aren't necessary to unlock new characters or stuff like that. Well, at least not yet. I was never a fan of toys.

 

[yahooda]

My problem with this is that they are essentially just overpriced flash drives. If I want to take my custom cpu data with me anywhere then I would save ALL of the data for every character on 1 flash drive/SD card that would probably cost only $10. Instead, you need a separate figure for EACH character's data that will cost about $10-15 each. However, I'm glad that they used this as an optional thing and not as some sort of stupid Skylanders style gimmick where it's required to unlock characters.

 

[Jumpman84]

My problem with this is that they are essentially just overpriced flash drives. If I want to take my custom cpu data with me anywhere then I would save ALL of the data for every character on 1 flash drive/SD card that would probably cost only $10. Instead, you need a separate figure for EACH character's data that will cost about $10-15 each. However, I'm glad that they used this as an optional thing and not as some sort of stupid Skylanders style gimmick where it's required to unlock characters.

That isn't very practical at all. Then you would have to plug the flash drive/SD card into the Wii U, wait for it to load the info, then you have to navigate the folders to select the character AI you want to use, etc. Extremely tedious and time consuming and not worth the effort.

With the amiibo, you just place it on the Game Pad, it detects the stored info, and it loads it into memory in a jiff. Much more user friendly and less aggravating.

 

[yahooda]

That isn't very practical at all. Then you would have to plug the flash drive/SD card into the Wii U, wait for it to load the info, then you have to navigate the folders to select the character AI you want to use, etc. Extremely tedious and time consuming and not worth the effort.

With the amiibo, you just place it on the Game Pad, it detects the stored info, and it loads it into memory in a jiff. Much more user friendly and less aggravating.

Most of the games I play are on the PC, so I don't have a problem with it, but I guess I can see how that could be confusing to some people who don't have much experience with it.
Edit: my main problem with it was all of the money it will cost for every character, but I assume that within a year or so of it's release people will have probably already made Amiibo hacks that work as any character.

 

[LF2K]

Smash isn't Skylanders or Disney Infinity. If it was, you'd be getting Mario, Link, and Pikachu figures out of the box and have to buy the rest. The amiibo are just an extra feature that's totally optional.

That being said, I'll probably get one.

 

[Jumpman84]

Most of the games I play are on the PC, so I don't have a problem with it, but I guess I can see how that could be confusing to some people who don't have much experience with it.
Edit: my main problem with it was all of the money it will cost for every character, but I assume that within a year or so of it's release people will have probably already made Amiibo hacks that work as any character.

Ah, I see. And I agree that the main issue is the cost. The main draw of those games, though, is that they're not just data storage, they're figures and toys, too. Since the target audience is children, they get cool toys that they can play with wherever PLUS can use that character in a videogame. To a kid, that's pretty darn cool. And the data being stored to the figure gives you a personal attachment. This isn't some plain old Mario. It's MY Mario, with all the experience and weapons that I've equipped him with. You're more inclined to take him with you to your friend's house and battle his Mario with it to see who has the better one.

Personally, I don't see the appeal of Skylanders (the only I ever heard of is Spyro and he was just thrown in), but Disney Infinity and Amiibo are ones I can get behind, for the nostalgia and classic characters.

Smash isn't Skylanders or Disney Infinity. If it was, you'd be getting Mario, Link, and Pikachu figures out of the box and have to buy the rest. The amiibo are just an extra feature that's totally optional.

That being said, I'll probably get one.

For me, it'll very likely be "Gotta Collect 'em All!" I've already got a vast Infinity collection, but I may stop that just to get the Amiibo figures.

 

[LancerStaff]

If this is the case, then all of the data is stored in the console eventually anyway and it could have been implemented without the figures.

No, you probably have to put them back to save your progress. Sharing them is one of the most important features. Honestly, I don't see alot of data to save. This probably won't be some super CPU, most of the challenge will come from the stats.

 

[Shiliski]

I hope that the Wii U version at least has some "free" trainable AI slots that don't require amiiba except for transferring. I think trainable AI is cool.

It's not impossible to make AI able to learn combos, but I don't know if it'd be easy. What I really want to know is: If the amiibas can learn combos, could they also learn to use exploits and glitches? Most of those are not that mechanically different from combos.

 

[DakotaBonez]

That isn't very practical at all. Then you would have to plug the flash drive/SD card into the Wii U, wait for it to load the info, then you have to navigate the folders to select the character AI you want to use, etc. Extremely tedious and time consuming and not worth the effort.

With the amiibo, you just place it on the Game Pad, it detects the stored info, and it loads it into memory in a jiff. Much more user friendly and less aggravating.

I don't think that you understand, the programmers can make accessing the data as simple as they want. You are saying that they HAVE to make it complicated. Once the SD card is in the console they can read the data on it and have a menu pop up with all of your Amiibo's in one spot.

And even if they HAD to go about your method of having the user browse the file and find the data themselves, which is practically unheard of in any game, they control where and how the data is saved, they could have a folder called "Character Data", you open it up and a folder containing the data for each amiibo is lined up nicely inside. Not complicated at all, especially because that SD card should only be used for Amiibos.

The reason some games require you to browse through folders to load stuff like mods or textures is because they weren't created by the original game makers, so they wouldn't know what to program the game to look for. Nintendo knows what the data will be saved as, "Mario Data", "Zelda Data", etc so they can program it to look for these files when you want.

Like in Project M, the data for the amiibo's could be loaded from the SD card. Actually it would be even more convenient than carrying around the figures, and you could just keep the SD card in your console at all times, like memory cards in old consoles, rather than having a pile of figures.

 

[alex6309]

Has anyone else stated yet that Amiibo's for specific characters will work for multiple games? So the Mario, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, etc Amiibo's will work for MK8 and MP10 too.

That's one thing that makes Amiibo's a bit more appealing.

 

[praline]

I'm disappointed by how the Amiibo's will be implemented.

You don't have to buy them.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Has anyone else stated yet that Amiibo's for specific characters will work for multiple games? So the Mario, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, etc Amiibo's will work for MK8 and MP10 too.

That's one thing that makes Amiibo's a bit more appealing.

There is a new interview on IGN, they actually went a bit in depth on how the figures save data and explicitly stated that they will be used in MK8 and MP10.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/06/12/e3-2014-nintendo-on-amiibo-smash-bros-and-custom-figurines

They said that the smash bros mario figures have data to let games know that they are mario, but the figures also have reserved space for smash bros data.

So, the data that tells other games that it is mario can be used in any games, but games that aren't smash bros can't save data onto it. So, if they wanted to introduce an AI training feature in Mario Kart, they'd have to make a seperate Mario Kart figure with space available to save mario kart data.

So both a smash bros figure of Yoshi and a mario kart figure of Yoshi would tell Mario Party that they are Yoshi, but to save Mario Party data then you'd need a Mario Party Yoshi figure.

However, they probably won't implement any features in any games in the near future that need data to be saved onto the figures. I think thats just gonna be tied to smash.

 

[Sobreviviente]

Can i use them in melee when is out on the e-shop? :V

What i dont like is the design, most of them are ugly

 

[kataridragon]

Reason! Do you need one to own a samus figure! I Think NOT!

 

[Flaxr XIII]

Something I heard about how the Amiibos might work.
NOTE: This may have been pure speculation but I like the sound of the idea.

Basically the Amiibo would adapt to how your playstyle would be and learn how to counteract against it for a more challenging foe.
Example: If you're one who generally like to guard/shield a lot, the Amiibo will try to grab you more.

Again I'm not sure if this would be true or not but an adaptable fighter to be your perfect enemy would be freaking awesome. I've always thought of playing someone who plays exactly like me and wondered how challenging that would be.

And yes, Amiibos are COMPLETELY OPTIONAL. You don't like it? You don't have to buy.

And you can't stop me from buying Rosalina and Palutena figures.

 

[Nstinct]

Something I heard about how the Amiibos might work.
NOTE: This may have been pure speculation but I like the sound of the idea.

Basically the Amiibo would adapt to how your playstyle would be and learn how to counteract against it for a more challenging foe.
Example: If you're one who generally like to guard/shield a lot, the Amiibo will try to grab you more.

Again I'm not sure if this would be true or not but an adaptable fighter to be your perfect enemy would be freaking awesome. I've always thought of playing someone who plays exactly like me and wondered how challenging that would be.

And yes, Amiibos are COMPLETELY OPTIONAL. You don't like it? You don't have to buy.

And you can't stop me from buying Rosalina and Palutena figures.

If all that were true, Amiibo's would be a great optional cpu that shows you your weak spots. Like what you said Flaxr, if you throw up that shield to much you'll be punished. Could Amiibos make people better rounded fighters? We'll see. In general for me and my siblings, we'd love to have our own Amiibos since there's 3 of us. We can use our Amiibos in place of stale cpus in teams. That'd be so epic...

Amiibos are absolutely fantastic for fun casuals, I'll be getting one. But I don't know if I should get my own main character, I shouldn't practice ditto matchups. I'm really looking forward to Amiibos and hope they learn to the extent we think they do.

 

[_yuna]

So, with these Amiibo figures, you can summon an opponent with AI that adapts to your playstyle by fighting it, in other words, the perfect opponent. I remember seeing a couple of threads dreaming of having this "Train an AI Opponent" feature in the next smash, however, I don't think any of us wanted to have to buy a figure for each character (no matter how cool the figures look)

I was wondering, do the Amiibo figures store the data within themselves, and is that data too much to be stored on the console?
Or, is this AI data be small enough to be stored to the console, or is the data stored to the console no matter what and the figures serve no purpose other than getting more cash out of us?

EDIT:

What I'm trying to find out is, how much data would a level 50 AI opponent like this take up? Is it more practical to store it in figures because the data usage would take up alot of memory?

Skylanders makes heaps of money. Nintendo really wants money, so they made their own equivelant. That's pretty much it. Amiibos could work just fine without the figures if they wanted to.