Why do we condone secret-keeping about combos and frame data?

[Big-Cat]

What has been bugging me lately is why we don't have any data on ground jump heights. I know that mid-air jump heights can be tough to figure out, but I would think that getting ground jump height data would be doable.

That would be quite simple, even though you probably wouldn't know what units to use.

I think it's okay to keep secrets just before an upcoming tournament, but you should disclose your findings. It's no fun for me if no one knows what to do against me. That's why I throw out MOST of my weaknesses. Not all though. One of the two keys of success is not show all the cards in your hand.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

A magician never reveals his secrets after all, especially during the big show. Reveal some behind the scenes and save your other tricks if you must.

 

[FallenHero]

Buy Abadango's DVD revealing where he reveals and explains all of his Smash 4 secrets! Available now only $9.99!

I can definitely understand why some players might keep certain things a secret, but IMO if it is only for the reason that you don't want others to know and that is all it should be looked down upon. Keeping secrets won't really help the character's/game's meta, but I guess other players can just figure it out themselves.

 

[S_B]

This is a thread that should mostly be directed in the direction of Nintendo and their ******** decisions to not publicly release balance changes. For the reasons outlined in this post, i cannot think of a single logical reason why they would do this, other than to be deliberately tedious and archaic.

While I completely agree, the only thing I can say in Nintendo's defense is that they probably don't release patch notes for fear of confusing casual players.

It's not a GOOD reason, but it would at least explain it.

 

[Random4811]

To the people saying that its silly to withold information because this is just a game:
Lets not forget, there are competitive players that don't just sit on For Glory and use tech that they found on Smashboards

They lab for hundreds of hours themselves, and they play for money. For some people, Smash is their full time job.

So you go ahead and tell me that protecting yourself in the field by keeping some tech up your sleeve is bad, and argue it all you want. But at the end of the day, unless you're risking your money by sharing all your tricks, you don't have room to talk.

Melee's competitive scene was and still is full of secrets. Why is it suddenly a bad thing for Smash 4? Its a common theme for competitive games. Its healthy, even.

And honestly, I think its a good thing. It really shows the skill of a player and the ability to learn and understand a character to discover new and useful techniques. It takes an even more skilled player to actually incorporate any of this tech at all. Its up to the player who makes a discovery to share or not. They have no obligation to any of you to do anything.

The community is also relatively bullheaded. You try to share anything and you've got 20 people immediately tell you that you're wrong, and you have to lawyer your discovery to some johns on the internet for more time than its worth.

 

[DunnoBro]

Lets not forget, actual competitive players don't just sit on For Glory and use tech that they found on Smashboards

...Well uh, some might. Dunno who.

 

[Random4811]

...Well uh, some might. Dunno who.

I had changed that bit before posting it but then my page refreshed and it got messed up
is fixed now

 

[Browny]

Some will say to this "you should go to the lab, no one HAS to tell you anything". And it's true that no one HAS to share information.

Shame on everyone who keeps these secrets.

Damn I came here late, my reply is less relevant now.

Firstly, the first thing is completely true.

'Withholding information' is a strong term that somewhat implies that the information can not be gotten easily and that you have some sort of right to it, information that you can't get unless you actually know that it is being hidden from you. For example, a shop that has a secret policy of no refunds on a certain product brand is not something you would actually know unless asked. If you asked and they say they don't know, but then confirm it after you've bought it (and they deliberately played dumb about it to secure a sale), they withheld the information deliberately since you have a right to know.

If there is a sign next to the product and you ask a new employee if it allows refunds and they say they dont know, they are not withholding information. The onus is on you to find that out, even if the employee should have known, the point is information was available, they didn't withhold anything, you just didn't find it.

An opposition team in a sports match can have a playbook, you ask to see it. They can withhold it because you have no right to it. There is significant time and money invested into it of which you have exactly no claim over.

In the case of smash, every player has the right to this information however unlike the first scenario, you can quite easily get the information. If you ask a metaknight main 'hey tell me what % DA confirms into a kill on ROB' and they say 'no that's secret', then you say 'grow up idiot' and go on training mode and spend a few minutes finding it out. if they say 'I don't know' and they are potentially lying about it, go on training mode and spend a few minutes finding it out.

Them not telling you is not 'withholding information' since you can easily get it yourself.

If the information was somewhat difficult to get and took a lot of effort, then your right to such information is far less. This is why consultants and lawyers etc exist. The information they have took a long time to get and you don't deserve it for free, because it cost them many hours and $ to get it. Even so, they are not 'withholding information', even if it is the sort of information that can save you going to jail, because you dont deserve it for free.

The point is, calling what MK mains are doing as 'withholding information' is too strong a term to describe what they are doing. What they are really doing is immature and dumb. Its not even unsportsman like, because it is stupid 100x over before it becomes an issue of 'fair'.

Now that that is out of the way;

People who withhold such information even when asked, are pathetic and are usually bad players. Remember the difference between choosing not to tell people because they werent asked, and actively saying 'no' when asked.

I got downvoted for this on reddit but its true. In every smash scene I've ever been to, and I've traveled a bit, the types of people who try to hide information from their opponents are bad, mid level players at best trying to get any advantage they can. Meanwhile, the players who teach the mid level players what counterpicks to use, how to DI out of combos and how to stop their tricks are always top of their scene. Is it any wonder that Zero spends so much time and effort teach, training and making guides to show people how to beat sheik, and he remains the best in the world?

Its simple. Because he knows that relying on 'hidden' information in order to win is going to make him a worse player. Eventually this information is going to be found out and he is not going to be caught on the backfoot, unable to adapt to someone who figured out his tricks from a lab. Why waste precious tournament practice time using an unreliable technique that will get exposed in the very near future when you could have been adapting for the next event. He only wants to know the best possible way to play and I can 100% guarantee you that the best players never rely on jank to win. They are prepared to win and know that playing in some sort of easy-win bubble will never last. They don't want unreliable wins today, they want guaranteed future wins and that comes from outplaying your opponents, you will never get better at the game if you don't force yourself to improve.

I don't believe Abadango is withholding information because him not telling people is remedied by people spending a few minutes in the lab and find out for themselves. What it is however, is stupid because its not going to last. People know the threat of Metaknight and are going to research for themselves. In all the time he, or anyone else, has spent hiding or lying about this information, they could have been learning to adapt to future playstyles where people dont fall for that jank. In effect, every match he plays and relies on not telling people anything and wins, sets his further back than any metaknight who tells their opponent the %'s, and still wins.

They can play dumb all the want, its a stupid tactic that NEVER lasts and sets them further behind the opposition.

I play Mewtwo, I could tell fox mains that if they reflector, jump and reflector again it refreshes it and actually guarantees a KO on me, instead of killing them at 0%. Now tell me, in a tournament situation and I going to gamble my stock on the opponent not knowing this, or would I learn how to play the matchup at a 2016 level and beyond, knowing that my jank is going to get me one cheesy win and then act like a smug idiot for people not knowing and they learn this matchup trick immediately after?

The people that hide information are a joke and should be laughed at, because their immature and stupid playstyle is setting them back while others around them improve. They can get their lame win for now, but it wont last. Unfortunately their stupid attitude is an affliction for life. Pity them.

 

[Random4811]

Damn I came here late, my reply is less relevant now.

Firstly, the first thing is completely true.

'Withholding information' is a strong term that somewhat implies that the information can not be gotten easily and that you have some sort of right to it, information that you can't get unless you actually know that it is being hidden from you. For example, a shop that has a secret policy of no refunds on a certain product brand is not something you would actually know unless asked. If you asked and they say they don't know, but then confirm it after you've bought it (and they deliberately played dumb about it to secure a sale), they withheld the information deliberately since you have a right to know.

If there is a sign next to the product and you ask a new employee if it allows refunds and they say they dont know, they are not withholding information. The onus is on you to find that out, even if the employee should have known, the point is information was available, they didn't withhold anything, you just didn't find it.

An opposition team in a sports match can have a playbook, you ask to see it. They can withhold it because you have no right to it. There is significant time and money invested into it of which you have exactly no claim over.

In the case of smash, every player has the right to this information however unlike the first scenario, you can quite easily get the information. If you ask a metaknight main 'hey tell me what % DA confirms into a kill on ROB' and they say 'no that's secret', then you say 'grow up idiot' and go on training mode and spend a few minutes finding it out. if they say 'I don't know' and they are potentially lying about it, go on training mode and spend a few minutes finding it out.

Them not telling you is not 'withholding information' since you can easily get it yourself.

If the information was somewhat difficult to get and took a lot of effort, then your right to such information is far less. This is why consultants and lawyers etc exist. The information they have took a long time to get and you don't deserve it for free, because it cost them many hours and $ to get it. Even so, they are not 'withholding information', even if it is the sort of information that can save you going to jail, because you dont deserve it for free.

The point is, calling what MK mains are doing as 'withholding information' is too strong a term to describe what they are doing. What they are really doing is immature and dumb. Its not even unsportsman like, because it is stupid 100x over before it becomes an issue of 'fair'.

Now that that is out of the way;

People who withhold such information even when asked, are pathetic and are usually bad players. Remember the difference between choosing not to tell people because they werent asked, and actively saying 'no' when asked.

I got downvoted for this on reddit but its true. In every smash scene I've ever been to, and I've traveled a bit, the types of people who try to hide information from their opponents are bad, mid level players at best trying to get any advantage they can. Meanwhile, the players who teach the mid level players what counterpicks to use, how to DI out of combos and how to stop their tricks are always top of their scene. Is it any wonder that Zero spends so much time and effort teach, training and making guides to show people how to beat sheik, and he remains the best in the world?

Its simple. Because he knows that relying on 'hidden' information in order to win is going to make him a worse player. Eventually this information is going to be found out and he is not going to be caught on the backfoot, unable to adapt to someone who figured out his tricks from a lab. Why waste precious tournament practice time using an unreliable technique that will get exposed in the very near future when you could have been adapting for the next event. He only wants to know the best possible way to play and I can 100% guarantee you that the best players never rely on jank to win. They are prepared to win and know that playing in some sort of easy-win bubble will never last. They don't want unreliable wins today, they want guaranteed future wins and that comes from outplaying your opponents, you will never get better at the game if you don't force yourself to improve.

I don't believe Abadango is withholding information because him not telling people is remedied by people spending a few minutes in the lab and find out for themselves. What it is however, is stupid because its not going to last. People know the threat of Metaknight and are going to research for themselves. In all the time he, or anyone else, has spent hiding or lying about this information, they could have been learning to adapt to future playstyles where people dont fall for that jank. In effect, every match he plays and relies on not telling people anything and wins, sets his further back than any metaknight who tells their opponent the %'s, and still wins.

They can play dumb all the want, its a stupid tactic that NEVER lasts and sets them further behind the opposition.

I play Mewtwo, I could tell fox mains that if they reflector, jump and reflector again it refreshes it and actually guarantees a KO on me, instead of killing them at 0%. Now tell me, in a tournament situation and I going to gamble my stock on the opponent not knowing this, or would I learn how to play the matchup at a 2016 level and beyond, knowing that my jank is going to get me one cheesy win and then act like a smug idiot for people not knowing and they learn this matchup trick immediately after?

The people that hide information are a joke and should be laughed at, because their immature and stupid playstyle is setting them back while others around them improve. They can get their lame win for now, but it wont last. Unfortunately their stupid attitude is an affliction for life. Pity them.

While hiding all information and being smug about it acting like you have a huge advantage due to it is foolish, there is legitimate merit in having more knowledge and having an edge on your opponent because of it. Everybody does it, even top players- especially top players

Its their job to know as much as they can about their character and about matchups, and to be highly skilled in game

If player X knows that their character has a hard time against player Y's character's ground game, and say its an uncommon match up with a lack of abundant and accurate data, but player Y doesnt know this. Its not player X's job to tell player Y, nor should he. Its player Y's fault for not knowing. The MU data might not be available online due to the rarity of the matchup (leading to little to no substantial discussion), but its not unavailable through playtesting.

Smash, and competitive gaming is a lot like the weapons race. Its not that the information doesnt exist and isnt out there. Its a matter of who discovers what first, and how its used. No amount of tech is going to make a player win EVO if they are a bad player. However, anything that can give you an edge in a competitive setting should be implored given its legal.
But whoever comes to these discoveries first has full control over what to do with the information, and they owe the rest of us nothing. Its not like we wont come to a similar or the same conclusion eventually

 

[Browny]

Thats true, but in a scenario where the information is both free and readily available, hiding it is futile.

Like in tennis someone might not tell their opponent their ability to do perfect drop shots, hiding it is worthwhile because the opponent cant possibly know that, they cant just learn this by doing research. That's the difference.

Trying to hide information which is easily accessible only hurts you in the long run, because other people will learn and then you've spent time practicing the wrong thing. If people start letting themselves eat 30+ damage to avoid those combos, which they will, your strategy is ruined. You should have adapted to that before it happened.

I fully understand the competitive merits to doing it. I'm just saying, top players regularly don't do this, they want to improve by their opponents being better. Those that try to hide such easily accessible information usually don't win actual events in my experience.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I play Mewtwo, I could tell fox mains that if they reflector, jump and reflector again it refreshes it and actually guarantees a KO on me, instead of killing them at 0%. Now tell me, in a tournament situation and I going to gamble my stock on the opponent not knowing this, or would I learn how to play the matchup at a 2016 level and beyond, knowing that my jank is going to get me one cheesy win and then act like a smug idiot for people not knowing and they learn this matchup trick immediately after?

Wait a minute, why don't I know about this?

 

[FSLink]

While I completely agree, the only thing I can say in Nintendo's defense is that they probably don't release patch notes for fear of confusing casual players.

It's not a GOOD reason, but it would at least explain it.

Yeah, it's a silly reason especially when Splatoon has patch notes (yeah yeah different developers), but it's not unheard of for other fighting games to do this. Capcom did this a lot previously in their games because they wanted people to discover the changes, which usually ends up with the community being annoyed for a week or two.

It's understandable but I do wish sometimes they'd give us a bit more information.

But regarding keeping secrets, it's kind of silly when it's not something obscure. Social media is a huge thing now, and you can bet that many people will just end up labbing it up and posting the MK death percents themselves now that it's known that it's being hid.

 

[Browny]

Wait a minute, why don't I know about this?

Only one person has ever done it to me, but its enough to make me never make that mistake again. Always fire FCSB from a larger than normal range when going for a reflect KO against fox or you open yourself up to the double reflect.

If you're lucky, they'll panic and hold shield. If theyre smart theyll do the double reflect, but you can jump out of the way (dont try to confuse it or shield it, it wont work lol). These are the sorts of things I think are important to know because if any Mewtwo main tries to get away with this cheesy KO method in tournament and dies to it (at 0%) its going to be highly embarrassing.

Also I was thinking of melee for a second, the fox doesnt jump cancel it. Just drop the reflector and do it again.

 

[LancerStaff]

I mean, I don't tell my opponents every secret I have before a match... If I did that'd take more time then Melee handwarmers do. When I pull something off and they have that silly look on their face I'll explain, and if they're struggling with something simple I'll tell them exactly how to stop it.

I'm not really here to win, but to advance the metagame. Pit's namely. Goofing around with tricks that'd only work once or twice is just slowing down that progress... Obviously need to try them on a wide variety of players and characters of course, but once you know there's an easy way out then that's it.

 

[RayNoire]

I withhold as much information as I can. One of the few advantages of playing a low-tier character is scarcity of information. I would be putting myself at a bigger disadvantage by sharing what I know than, for example, a Mario player would--not only because I have more exclusive knowledge due to no one playing my character, but also because my character is less fundamentally solid and more vulnerable to opponents exploiting MU knowledge.

Is it shameful? On the contrary, I think it's shameful to expect someone to share the fruits of their hard work and research for nothing.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

I think the problem with this mindset in general, is that while there is definitely benefit obviously in tournament to withholding every last bit of your findings (play to win, right?), it will only lead to momentary success. Even if people didn't figure it out by themselves, people are smart and will find these things eventually. You are only hurting yourself as a player if you rely on gimmicks and the unknown of your secrets when people eventually learn how to deal with it and suddenly aren't being carried by your gimmick, heh. It forces you to find workarounds problems that arise from people exploiting your play, and thus, getting better as a whole.

I dunno, it goes both ways. Yes, your hard work put into a character and your findings don't always necessarily have to be shared, and not everything should be offered on a silver platter. Yet when someone asks to demonstrate how something worked, I don't think it's too much to ask from someone who has a basic understanding of the characters strengths and such for instance, but are looking to find out more.

Knowledge is power~

 

[ForteX]

There's the really obvious double edged sword that I don't think anyone has pointed out yet (I'm more of a skimmer than a reader) that if you really do play for recognition, at least on some level, it's in your best interest to give out the information you find as soon as you find it and have reasonable proof that it works and wasn't a fluke - otherwise some other chump, possibly someone else who plays for fame and recognition, is going to beat you to sharing that information and now you look like a fraud for doing it. Yeah yeah, winning tournaments and whatnot, but this isn't the secret formula for coca-cola, this is a tech in a video game that will become antiquated as soon as the next version comes out, or hell, in our modern society, as soon as the next patch comes out. Rosalina example from the first page sums it up nicely - anything you're riding on as a victory condition is damaging to yourself - someone needs to know how to beat that so that you can find out how to beat it being beat. Victory is a road leading up a mountain with no peak. The mountain's name is Self Improvement.

Somewhere up the page there's a guy who types completely in a really poor readability blue font, and I'm too lazy to go back up there and get his name. He ended one of his posts with how you have to get a lawyer to verify your statements just so that ten or twenty randos on the internet will believe your information even though you've used it successfully in a tournament environment at least ten times and took home first place - this is one of the primary reasons I do my best to avoid talking tech. I don't have much of a name for myself so I feel like a lot of what I say is taken with a grain of salt. There's no reason for me to share anything interesting I find out, chances are pretty high that I've either been beaten to the punch by someone much more notable, or no one is going to take my word for it since I don't have any video recording hardware to demonstrate my findings with.

Smash 4, to me, has a good balance of game depth with the right amount of complexity. No one needs to give themselves joint damage to pull out competitively viable techniques, and no one needs to have the eyes of a DBZ character to see what just happened in a Smash 4 game. If you suspect someone's hiding some kind of tech from you, just watch their gameplay, and you'll probably become very familiar with whatever they're using to secure stocks or rack up damage. It isn't the kind of familiarity that teaches you to counter it, but it is the kind of familiarity that lets you know vaguely what to look for before it happens, kind of like with predicting tornadoes or earthquakes.

It's a strange topic, and the very bottom line for me is that I don't believe there are secrets being kept. A lot of people in this thread have mentioned how different it is to "keep a secret" and to outright refuse to disclose what you just did upon being asked, the latter scenario there being something I would have to file under "douchebag". If you're dedicated to a character, you'll likely stumble upon whatever combo you think is being hidden from you, or maybe find a new one. It's all about that mountain.

 

[Amadeus9]

The only reason why information has been "witheld" in the mk community is because of the backlash. People pointed at the percemt ranges and shouted "OP!"

Thats not a joke. It was publicly available but the person that put it up (@warionumbah2) was sick of recieving pms about and so on so he took it down. I honestly haven't seen anyone ask for percents since and not get them.

And when you're saying "mk community", Browny , I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're not talking about the mk community here on smashboards, because we (me, @warionumbah2, @Jamurai, @Ulevo, so on) active post meaningful information and participate in discussions all over this site. So honestly, I'm not sure who you're levying that "immature and dumb" comment at. Maybe you could go back and re-explain in a way that's not a useless personal attack.

And quite frankly, im not sure how any of this makes any sense at all. "your fighter is problematic, therefore we need a 500 page thesis on every technique and minute of your fighter that has an active community of about 5 members"

**** off mate

 

[Browny]

The only reason why information has been "witheld" in the mk community is because of the backlash. People pointed at the percemt ranges and shouted "OP!"

Thats not a joke. It was publicly available but the person that put it up (@warionumbah2) was sick of recieving pms about and so on so he took it down. I honestly haven't seen anyone ask for percents since and not get them.

And when you're saying "mk community", Browny , I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're not talking about the mk community here on smashboards, because we (me, @warionumbah2, @Jamurai, @Ulevo, so on) active post meaningful information and participate in discussions all over this site. So honestly, I'm not sure who you're levying that "immature and dumb" comment at. Maybe you could go back and re-explain in a way that's not a useless personal attack.

And quite frankly, im not sure how any of this makes any sense at all. "your fighter is problematic, therefore we need a 500 page thesis on every technique and minute of your fighter that has an active community of about 5 members"

**** off mate

Let me restate this for you, minus generalisations

If you are part of the mk community or not, if you main the character or you secondary him, if you only play FG or are a tournament regular;

If someone thinks hiding the kill combo % for things like ftilt-upb, dash attack to uair string or dthrow-upb is going to make them a better player then they are wrong, immature are dumb.

These things WILL be found out by the opponents in a short space of time.
They are NOT doing what they should to become a better player.
They are going to seem like a total jerk, and rightly so, to anyone who wants advice to get better at the game and they hide it from them.

I said mk community because thats what this thread was targetting. If you are one of the good ones that shares info with everyone then good on you, you're on your way to surpassing them in skill. No actual top player refuses to try and advance the character by hiding information. The downright awful ones like to hide information which is exposed in a matter of weeks/months and they refuse to get better by playing the game at the optimum level, only by relying on hidden information. Once that information is out there, they lose their advantage, seem like a total jerk and have fallen behind their competition who were improving on a deeper level instead of relying on a one-time trick.

 

[Dre89]

I don't think it's the place of people who don't place in money to tell people who do place in it to not withhold information that can help them make money

It's easy for players to have this philosophy when they don't have any money to lose from it

 

[Browny]

What a gigantic assumption.

Losing or gaining money from a video game tournament doesnt give anyone moral/ethical/any sort of high ground when talking about this.

Its called observing the habits of top players, watch how they always tell people what to do against them or share their knowledge via youtube or stream lab stuff like dkwill does. In fact he is probably the most prominent example of publicly sharing 'hidden' info that works against him, yet he manages to do quite well.

Now is the time when you list one top player who actively hides information about their character from the public.

 

[LightLV]

While I completely agree, the only thing I can say in Nintendo's defense is that they probably don't release patch notes for fear of confusing casual players.

It's not a GOOD reason, but it would at least explain it.

Yeah, it's still a terrible reason, because casual players would never look for the information in the first place. Because they're casual. It's just Nintendo doing silly Nintendo things.

And yeah nothing worth knowing will ever be hidden long enough to make a difference.

This is x10 for any mid/low tier character, since you're probably lacking options anyway.

 

[Quarium]

I unno, the smash community as a whole seems to share things a lot more nowadays than they did back in the old days! Especially with the accessibility of the internet.

For every person that hides something, there seems to be 5 that are doing their best to share information and feed the playerbase to make it more knowledgeable... is one better than the other? both have Pros and Cons but the thing they have in common is that they both are CHOICES at the end of the day, people can choose to withhold them without being demonized about it. After all, it ain't the same as not telling a new player they need to Up B after getting thrown away or not telling a baseball player what to do after hitting the ball, it's knowledge that can be chalked up to strategy and isn't needed to play the game in any shape or form, thus no one has an obligation to share or is being unfair by not doing so.

 

[T0MMY]

Cyberpunk philosophy: Information is naturally free, those who keep secrets are holding information hostage. A hacker sees it as their duty to free the information to its natural state so all many benefit.

As a competitive player I divulge all my information, not for the benefit of others, but for the benefit of myself. Because the time will come where the meta will advance and I will have grown too accustomed to playing it easy for too long. By giving the information to others I must adapt and can then stay a step (or two) ahead of the game. I benefit. You benefit. The meta advances.

 

[PStoken]

Its great to advance the meta by sharing your knowledge and experience, at the same time it's childish to complain about somebody keeping information(that you can find out by yourself putting in the time) from you or from a group of people. These two things are not mutually exclusive i think.
The thing of no patch notes by nintendo makes no sense, but really, i still can't believe they are actually patching balance stuff in the first place, so i don't complain.(samus buffs WHEN?)

 

[Sonicninja115]

What a gigantic assumption.

Losing or gaining money from a video game tournament doesnt give anyone moral/ethical/any sort of high ground when talking about this.

Its called observing the habits of top players, watch how they always tell people what to do against them or share their knowledge via youtube or stream lab stuff like dkwill does. In fact he is probably the most prominent example of publicly sharing 'hidden' info that works against him, yet he manages to do quite well.

Now is the time when you list one top player who actively hides information about their character from the public.

Adding on to this. If top players wanted to hide techs and combos, they would wait until tournies that really mattered. However, we consistently see ZeRo, Dabuz, Nairo and Esam showing off their new skills. It isn't obviously displayed, but it is there.

For example, you can smash DI Shuttle loop. ZeRo does it, and Esam took that knowledge and is now correctly DI'ing it.

 

[Machii]

While we're at it, why don't we ask pros to play for us?

Seriously, at what point is anyone obligated to inform the community? If you really want to know, I find that money carries great influence.
If you can't find the tech on your own, chances are you can't even execute the tech with the knowledge of it.

 

[Dr. Bread]

kinda like what everyone else said... there aren't really any other mk mains who would improve based on that information, the combo is extremely sensitive to even small changes in the way its done.

publishing the nitty gritty on it would most likely give a bigger advantage to opponents looking to survive it than meta knights looking to perfect it anyways, and like everyone said, in this day of information and datamining smash bros, there are no trade secrets, all guaranteed combos come down to time and space, you can theorycraft them with high school math, data spreadsheets, and the smash wiki.

wouldn't be much more boring and painful than the actual practice.