PK Illuminati
Banned via Warnings
Ness in doubles is amazing. Its basically a free Yoyo glitch, free jacket, and with all the new techs, U-smash jacket refresh, its weird that Ness is so slept on. They also make an explosive duo when its two Nesses.
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Why do so many people sleep on Ness in doubles?
- Thread starter PK Illuminati
- Start date
steakhouse
Smash Apprentice
Ness still has crap kill options and abysmal range, and his reliance on his team mate to setup YYG is hindering.
gemigumi
Formerly gemininoiser
Also correct me if I'm wrong but, wouldn't one jacket have the potential to hit both enemies and your partner.
Not sure how close it is to viable, but still being able to hit both with something like thunder jacket is ridiculous.
It'd be a pain to set up though. It could work with the right team mate able to control space for half the stage for you or something.
Though you're still damaging your team mate as well... A team mate that can take hits and not die at least could be helpful.
I really don't think Ness-Ness team is great though.
I don't think Ness in doubles would be revolutionary or anything for the doubles metagame, but in comparison to his singles play, might seem to be of worth.
Another thing to consider though could be Ness taking advantage or YYG on Needles or Arrows too.
Ness-Sheik sounds like a reasonable team, though I really don't know much about doubles.
Edit:
Also if Ness YYG's and the upsmash hitbox is left on the ground. Normally in singles your life is over when it gets touched, because you can't do anything more with the glitch. However in doubles, if only one person touches the upsmash trap hitbox, you can still jacket or deadline his partner.or your teammate.
Not sure how close it is to viable, but still being able to hit both with something like thunder jacket is ridiculous.
It'd be a pain to set up though. It could work with the right team mate able to control space for half the stage for you or something.
Though you're still damaging your team mate as well... A team mate that can take hits and not die at least could be helpful.
I really don't think Ness-Ness team is great though.
I don't think Ness in doubles would be revolutionary or anything for the doubles metagame, but in comparison to his singles play, might seem to be of worth.
Another thing to consider though could be Ness taking advantage or YYG on Needles or Arrows too.
Ness-Sheik sounds like a reasonable team, though I really don't know much about doubles.
Edit:
Also if Ness YYG's and the upsmash hitbox is left on the ground. Normally in singles your life is over when it gets touched, because you can't do anything more with the glitch. However in doubles, if only one person touches the upsmash trap hitbox, you can still jacket or deadline his partner.
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PK Illuminati
Banned via Warnings
if both are ness mains im pretty sure they'll know correct spacing to yyg lol
also
''Also if Ness YYG's and the upsmash hitbox is left on the ground. Normally in singles your life is over when it gets touched, because you can't do anything more with the glitch. However in doubles, if only one person touches the upsmash trap hitbox, you can still jacket or deadline his partner.
what? every ness main never leaves it open
as soon as it gets enable they do u-air or d-air jacket instantly to keep it to you, either use that or you can go for a thunder jacket
performing yyg and u-air literally takes 1 second
ggg
EddyBearr
Smash Lord
Twice the opponents plus one team mate means more than twice the chances to get exposed as an atrocious character.
He is too slow, is awful in 2v1's, has awful moves and range for participating in 2v1's (only nair is semi-decent), can't set up his zoning game, has a terribly destructive recovery (that's terrible as well), and his being pretty easy to combo is exacerbated in teams.
He is too slow, is awful in 2v1's, has awful moves and range for participating in 2v1's (only nair is semi-decent), can't set up his zoning game, has a terribly destructive recovery (that's terrible as well), and his being pretty easy to combo is exacerbated in teams.
PK Illuminati
Banned via Warnings
(that's terrible as well)
don't wanna turn this into an arguement but his PK Thunder on his feet is the same distance as Fox's recovery
but yeah, i agree with everything else
Stride
Smash Ace
It also takes longer to start up, can't be angled anywhere near as easily/precisely, has much heavier landing lag, doesn't protect Ness at all during startup, and can be beaten simply by falling into the PK Thunder before Ness can direct it into himself (Shy Guys can intercept it too). It's amongst the worst recoveries in the game in every respect but distance.
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PK Illuminati
Banned via Warnings
gemigumi
Formerly gemininoiser
Yeah you're right about the YYG weak hit thing I was talking about. I'm pretty dumb sometimes.
Though, it's not like you can't teach your partner the correct spacing, or best way to get hit to activate the glitch
Like I said I don't know much about the doubles meta so this is more just a thought or question but, would it even be possible for your teammate to keep both players out while you go put up a thunder jacket? If feel the best teammate would be a character who could do this most efficiently. Well, maybe not the best teammate, but the best teammate if you want to YYG.
Has anyone played Ness in doubles and tried to YYG, and want to say how difficult it was to set up?
PK Illuminati
Banned via Warnings
Massive
Smash Champion
Coming from someone who has played a lot of Ness, YYG is a novelty.
Even if you could do it reliably, it would only move Ness up a few spaces in the tier list. It's not going to stop him from having a slow, predictable, easily gimped recovery or allow him to ledgeguard or control neutral any better than he does already.
That being said, literally every character is viable in teams assuming you have someone to compensate for their weaknesses or accentuate their strengths. The big problem is that since every character is viable, people will stick with the characters they are comfortable with, and very, very few people can play Ness comfortably at a high level.
Even if you could do it reliably, it would only move Ness up a few spaces in the tier list. It's not going to stop him from having a slow, predictable, easily gimped recovery or allow him to ledgeguard or control neutral any better than he does already.
That being said, literally every character is viable in teams assuming you have someone to compensate for their weaknesses or accentuate their strengths. The big problem is that since every character is viable, people will stick with the characters they are comfortable with, and very, very few people can play Ness comfortably at a high level.
PK Illuminati
Banned via Warnings
While I agree with everything you said, as I play Ness aswell, YYG is NOT a novelty.
(Everything below will be about singles, NOT doubles)
Honestly, in my opinion, if you pull off YYG in one stock, you basically have the whole game. Misconceptions like jacket running out on first hit aren't true. You can u-smash the jacket and make a whole new YYG.
How?
If you pull a YYG, do NOT hesitate to pull off a jacket immediately. In my opinion DJC D-air is fastest.
Then you could either go use another jacket or keep the one you have.
Don't just stand in place either, if you upsmash somebody, the YYG glitch is still active, AND you hit them with the jacket!
Then, another jacket from the STILL ACTIVE yyg!
Even if you DON'T use these tips, if you pull it off you have a guaranteed stock, minimum.
Sorry if I got a bit ranty there, I just am so nerdy for YYG.
Heres some of my vids about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj-DhfjHew8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6daS3GkwDyc
EddyBearr
Smash Lord
Even pulling a rest or wobble off one stock doesn't equate to winning the game, and those are both easier to set-up, more guaranteed, more threatening, and accomponied by characters that are quite good otherwise.
PK Illuminati
Banned via Warnings
A wobble and a rest is one stock. It's a completey different situation. If you get a wobble, you can't continue it throughout your opponents full whole stocks. No **** a wobble doesn't mean the end of the game, because it doesnt LAST the end of the game, while the YYG can!
Massive
Smash Champion
YYG doesn't even remotely guarantee a stock.
Realistically the only jackets you have time to equip after connecting usmash are dair or uair. The dair jacket is only marginally better than a regular dair, which is basically only useful as a juggle. Uair is decent, but it's still not going to kill anybody unless they were at a % that you could've just killed them with the bat instead of tossing out usmash to begin with. However, the biggest problem with YYG is that you can disarm his jackets by simply shielding the hitbox.
I like Ness as a character but the ability to stick one of his "ok" aerials to his body or drag a hitbox/grab through the stage isn't going to redeem the other, glaring flaws preventing him from being considered even remotely viable in the modern meta.
If I get the itch to play Ness, I usually just turn to PM. He is completely viable and really fun to play there and those Magicant Pajamas sold me so hard that Melee ness just doesn't have the appeal he used to.
Realistically the only jackets you have time to equip after connecting usmash are dair or uair. The dair jacket is only marginally better than a regular dair, which is basically only useful as a juggle. Uair is decent, but it's still not going to kill anybody unless they were at a % that you could've just killed them with the bat instead of tossing out usmash to begin with. However, the biggest problem with YYG is that you can disarm his jackets by simply shielding the hitbox.
I like Ness as a character but the ability to stick one of his "ok" aerials to his body or drag a hitbox/grab through the stage isn't going to redeem the other, glaring flaws preventing him from being considered even remotely viable in the modern meta.
If I get the itch to play Ness, I usually just turn to PM. He is completely viable and really fun to play there and those Magicant Pajamas sold me so hard that Melee ness just doesn't have the appeal he used to.
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Regarding YYG in teams. It something your partner has to be in on and they have to know how you need things to be for doing it. Its also something to setup when at least one opponent is off stage.
PK Illuminati
Banned via Warnings
If my partner is a random guy, yeah I guess there is a problem.
It goes without saying that if you guys havent practiced it enough to where both of you know when to go for and how to do without having to say anything then its not gonna be fast enough. Its like trying to heal when your partner isnt ready....too slow
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
A good ness in doubles is an amazing partner. But he needs to have a good character watching his back, like falcon or one of the spacies or shiek or wtv. I don t think dual ness is a good choice, but I think ness has more options in doubles than in singles.
Also his Bair is a great move to just throw out there to set up edgeguard situations. The only real issue is how easy it is to run off stage and get hit by pk thunder when he is recovering, hence why you need a terammate to watch your back.
Also his Bair is a great move to just throw out there to set up edgeguard situations. The only real issue is how easy it is to run off stage and get hit by pk thunder when he is recovering, hence why you need a terammate to watch your back.
dan smith
Smash Champion
can't argue with this