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Why do people think Wolf's slow?

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
Topic title sais it all. I keep constantly reading things like that. "Wolf is laggy, Wolf is slow" and stuff like that and I'd really like to know, where people get these ideas from.

I mean Wolf has a lot of fast attacks, with barely any lag at all (bair, 0 lag fair, nair, dtilt, shine) or attacks, that are hard to punish, when spaced correctly (ftilt, jab), yet some people still insist, that Wolf is supposed to be slow. I know Wolf has some very laggy attacks like fsmash but then again, every character, who's not called Metaknight has laggy attacks. Why exactly do people say, that it applies to Wolf but not some other characters?

I know, that Wolf has weaknesses but I doubt, that speed is one of them. It rather shows, that Wolf is simply underplayed or often used by newbies, who like to spam fsmash. But when you see some videos with GERM fighting you can see just how fast wolf really is. Yes, I know, that GERM is a highly skilled player but he's no magician though and he can't just make Wolf faster, than he actually is.

Do you feel the same way like me or is Wolf really that slow? Discuss!
 

E.M.

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
169
Wolf slow? Maybe his running speed ain't all that great but overall Wolf is FAR from slow.

Dude, get this, he's one of the space animals. How the hell can a space animal be slow. -_-
 

darkspatan117

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
364
He's only slow in the running speed but he attack quickly and his air speed is one of the fastest
 

Reddent11

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
20
Location
San Antonio
Yah, wolf is NOT slow!
As everyone else has said, its really only his running speed.
For me i like wolfs speed, attack wise because it is fast and efficient.
Hes a heavy char that isnt typically "slow" or thats just what i think.
Hey guys feel free to correct me cause i really am i n00b but i really dont think i said anything wrong this time :)
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
I know he's not slow. But some (or let's say: MOST) match-up threads always say: "Wolf's slow & easy to punish." Everybody, who mains Wolf knows, it's not like that. Why then do people still think that way?
 

Turbo Ether

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
3,601
I know he's not slow. But some (or let's say: MOST) match-up threads always say: "Wolf's slow & easy to punish." Everybody, who mains Wolf knows, it's not like that. Why then do people still think that way?
Because most of their Wolf experience is against people that predictably use the laggy Fsmash?
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
Location
Europe
And which is why many match-ups are considered to be against wolfs favour, even though it's not that way?
 

BanKai029

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
38
Location
Pwnville
Dont listen to people Wolf is a great character. He's only slow in running speed. and on the 0 lag fair is it jsut me or does it seem to have a very limited range because you have to use it very quickly
 

ArcPoint

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
1,183
Location
NorCal, California.
Wolf's moves have a touch of lag on them.

A LOT of people are fooled by the "Zero lag" Fair. To tell you guys the truth, it's not zero lag. You may have no lag upon LANDING. However, what about when you are in the air? You can't fastfall a Fair, otherwise it doesn't auto-cancel. I've actually timed the length of time in the air that Fair is, and guess what? 1/3 of a second, or about the length of an average spotdodge. So, if you hit a shield, they have about 1/3 of a second (Maybe a little less, due to shieldstun) to punish you. While you're still in the air.

Haven't you guys ever wondered why people can go so far backwards with a retreating Fair? The first thing is because Wolf has excellent horizontal mobility, and the second is that HE STAYS IN THE AIR FOR SO LONG. The real practical approach application of Fair is retreating, otherwise you're going to get punished while you're still in the air, before that zero lag part kicks in.

So yeah, Wolf's Fair can be punished if you don't retreat it. (I mean serious retreating, like, out of Fsmash range)

Nair is a similar story. Except you can fast fall it. However, it doesn't have the range like Fair does, and only the initial hit does damage =/ But yeah, if shielded, this generally will be punished, at least in-person. Because online is crap >_> The reason being, is because usually the shieldgrab input won't be registered by the time Wolf hits the ground from his Nair, in-person, the grab WILL register before Wolf hits the ground. So eh, thank you latency.

The Shine... starts fast, has invincibility frames, however the lag after it is pretty bad, if someone spotdodges this, or shields this, you're getting punished. This is why you shouldn't use the reflector offensively, because it IS a punishable move. Great move, just punishable, like every other counter.

Dtilt. A good solid move, it's range is beyond any shield grab, generally, if it hits a shield, you won't be punished, unless you do it more than once and the opponent rolls, but that's part of smart play. Dtilt is one of Wolf's good, solid, difficult to punish moves. It's just that the hitbox is low, so it doesn't work very well against a SHing opponent xD

Ftilt.... I don't really like this move, the time in between the first hit and the second hit can be shielded.
And just the last hit... it still has some cool-down time, however if it is spaced so that you only hit once, then you shouldn't be punished, but still, the damage offered by the last hit is not worth the effort it takes to space it correctly. I'd much rather a Dtilt, more damage than the last hit, faster, less punishable ^^.

Triple A combo... this is one of Wolf's fastest starting moves, the end lag is kinda bad, but you have three hits that you can switch up =) I.E. Jab jab -> Grab. Though, not much spacing required, you either hit it or you don't. o.O Overall a great move, I've been using this a lot, along with other jab combos such as Jab -> Dtilt. Jab -> Shine -> Fsmash. So this is a good solid move. Just I wish the range was more, but that's alright, I still hit with this =D

Bair. Oh man, Bair, last, but most certainly not least. This is Wolf's best move. According to some frame testing I've done, it the move starts in about 6 frames, that's pretty freakin' fast. It has rather little lag, can be fastfalled, everything. Great range, great priority. Although, with this move, SPACING IS KEY. If you do not space Bair right, it can be punished. It is recommended that you always fast-fall this, in order to remove any lag in the air. This is also helped by Wolf's fast falling speed =) Wolf's safest, fastest, longest ranged (Other than Fsmash xD ). You can fastfall this, you can space it so you only get the tip, and you can do several things after it... it's just a great move, that's why people have based playstyles after this.

That's probably why Germ seems so fast, because his playstyle is based almost entirely around Bair (ALthough recently, especially at BIO, his playstyle has diverted from Bair in the slightest) and fastfalling making use of Wolf's fastest falling speed.

A lot of Wolf's moves are punishable to a degree, however, Bair is the best of all of these. That's probably why they say Wolf is punishable. Slow due to his dashing speed... but still. He can be played fast. But not all of his moves are as unpunishable as one may think. At least in-person. Once again, online is crap for punishing people.

Just my two cents.

Edit: Holy crap, that was long O_O

Tl;dr version: Most of Wolf's move have a touch of lag on them that makes them punishable. However, Dtilt and Bair are very difficult to punish when used right. Fair has a lot of time in the air and thus is punishable when not retreated.
 
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