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Why can't there be an AI programmed to guess more instead of having a crazy reaction time?

Zeekfox

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
68
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
So, I love playing Smash, but I really don't have people to play offline all that often, and my internet is awful to the point where I'd rather play the AI than try to play online and lose due to the intense lag. It gets pretty bad when my recoveries get me killed free because by the time I see my opponent move towards me, it's too late to get my character to actually do something about it.

But when I set the AI to level 9...the computer will often react instantly to whatever you do. I find that an aireal AI opponent, if they aren't hitting me, air dodges something like 80% or more of incoming attacks. However, if you play against an AI and just never attack, they never air dodge at all. They might tap the shield some, even sidestep randomly, and certainly they'll roll about, but they won't air dodge until you hit an attack button.

Not only is it annoying for the AI to react so fast to inputs, but an integral part of the game involves aireal situations where failing to air dodge an attack either gets you killed. Because of that, you might elect to attack an opponent as soon as you're close enough, or hope they anticipate the immediate attack and hit them after they air dodge. The AI? Your best bet is to attack immediately every time, because if it's going to dodge, it'll dodge regardless of your timing, and delaying an attack often leads the AI to decide to press a button and hit you first.

I'd love it if the AI would air dodge too soon every now and then. It shouldn't happen so reliably that it's exploitable, but enough so that it rewards you for at least attempting to hit aireal opponents for an edgeguard or up-air that kills because you're closer to the blastzone. Because, you know, I like practicing these techniques for when I get to play real opponents, even though they very rarely work on the AI. Mostly I just try to make it so the attempt was aimed correctly (so that the AI's godmode dodge was necessary for them to survive), despite the lack of a KO result.
 

Megane-for-Life

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
41
NNID
megane-for-life
3DS FC
0533-5491-3147
I know what you mean man, it gets so annoying. I also find the perfect shielding every single attack I throw out part of them too! They perfect shield any attack I try and just punish hard. Counter characters are cheap too...
 

EarthBoundEnigma

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
214
Location
EST
NNID
EarthBoundEnigma
AI doesn't have what's called "Working Memory."
For it to have some level of prediction, it would need to be able to hold your last few behaviors (or matches) in memory to even begin to discern your habits and patterns.

Our working memory is what makes us superior to CPUs despite their often faster reaction times.
 

Newt Floss

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
219
You're talking about the singularity. You're going to have to wait until Skynet starts making Smash Bros.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,423
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
TPitch5
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
I know what you mean man, it gets so annoying. I also find the perfect shielding every single attack I throw out part of them too! They perfect shield any attack I try and just punish hard. Counter characters are cheap too...
Even using the Wario Bike isn't foolproof, as the CPU can easily shield-grab Wario after blocking the bike.
 

EarthBoundEnigma

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
214
Location
EST
NNID
EarthBoundEnigma
Exactly. If Amiibo are able to do it and are held back by the limited memory available on the actual figure imagine if they had access to the Wii U hard drive.
Amiibo don't possess working memory, and they are only slightly different than the standard AI.
The few bytes of data they store are only for their generational learning results.
Amiibos form habits more than they actually "learn."
Someone made an amazingly detailed post on this somewhere...
 

shane3x

Saint of Swords
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
656
Location
Australia
Amiibo don't possess working memory, and they are only slightly different than the standard AI.
The few bytes of data they store are only for their generational learning results.
Amiibos form habits more than they actually "learn."
Someone made an amazingly detailed post on this somewhere...
Still better then the perfect frame AI built into the game.
 

shane3x

Saint of Swords
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
656
Location
Australia
It is the same AI. It is just a different flavor of it, with different tendencies and move preferences selected at random.
It's still better even if its a variation/clone of the normal AI. As per this example from that same thread:

For example, normal CPU's don't aim to attack Rosalina's Luma, nor do they register him as a threat. They only register his immediate attacks as threats, and will dodge or shield them, but they don't attack Luma back. This is because they haven't been programmed to target Luma like a player character, but they have been programmed to avoid incoming attacks, and Luma's attacks count as that, so they simply try to dodge or shield his attacks, without retaliating. This makes Rosalina completely broken against Level 9 CPU's in 1v1.

My Amiibos, however, have learned to attack Luma, and will do so if I leave him separated from me for too long, or if I get knocked away from my Luma.
 

platologic

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
29
It is the same AI. It is just a different flavor of it, with different tendencies and move preferences selected at random.
The AI may be the same, but that's not the point. Fighting an Amiibo feels different than fighting a "plain" CPU precisely because of the different tendencies and move preferences.

There's no technical reason why CPUs can't utilize the same "memory" technique used by Amiibo, and it would help make CPU matches more interesting but not necessarily harder.
 
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