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Why are so many created stages so crowded?

hpkomic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
21
I've been trying to glean as much information about the stage editor in Brawl as humanly possible and it's one of the first features I'll dive into when I get the game. In ANY game that allows me to make levels I go all out and make the best levels I possibly can.

However, any stages I have seen produced by people have been crowded and poorly laid out. I've only seen a few stages that looked like serious stages to play on. Hell, most of the good ones are remakes of prior Smash Bros stages.

So, can anyone point out any good stages? When I say good, I don't mean "lol flat no variety", I mean stages that would be great to fight on. Not "spikes everywhere, falling blocks, bigger than hyrule temple". I guess what I am looking for is the less is more approach. I found one stage that is similar to what I'd imagine a good stage being like, but it' hard to find any others that aren't remakes of 64 stages.

So am I the only one who has noticed many stages that people have made are just... not that good for fighting on? Has anyone else noticed this?
 

Riakou

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
120
Cant say, i guess were just not perfect enough to make the perfect stage to satisfy you :)
 

SD3

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
23
I completely agree with the TC here. The majority of stages I've seen are full of spikes, springs, falling blocks and crowded corridors, and they just seem frustrating to play on. Maybe people make them because they can't wait to hear the lamentations of their friends.

I've been planning out some stages since the stage creator update, and I think at least a few of them are reasonable. Can't wait until I can find out for sure.

Here is a link if you want to see for yourself (warning, large image):

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/053/9/e/Brawl_Stages_by_Shagg3.png
 

hpkomic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
21
Cant say, i guess were just not perfect enough to make the perfect stage to satisfy you :)
No need to be a jerk about it. People can make whatever stages they wish, that's the beauty of the editor. I just want to see some stages that look more serious attempts at finding the right layout. I enjoy a crazy joke stage as much as anyone else, but it's frustrating to not see any that look like good battlegrounds.

Seriously though, comments like that are the reason people mock SmashBoards. :rolleyes:

The game is new so it makes sense that people want to make crazy stages.
That's perfectly fine and I'd expect people to do that, but my concern is I've seen little if any serious attempts, and I am hoping people could show me some so I can get a feel for what the stage editor can truly achieve.

I just want to something aside from the normal crazyness is all.

I completely agree with the TC here. The majority of stages I've seen are full of spikes, springs, falling blocks and crowded corridors, and they just seem frustrating to play on. Maybe people make them because they can't wait to hear the lamentations of their friends.

I've been planning out some stages since the stage creator update, and I think at least a few of them are reasonable. Can't wait until I can find out for sure.
SD3, thank you for undertsanding my point. As for your stages, better than most. My favorites are Duel Cave, Endless Staircase, Dust Bowl and Smash Factory.

Duel Cave: Perfectly balanced level, play will gravitate towards the center of the stage, and it highlights the mushroom stucture. The gaps with the platforms can create a lot of tension, and I enjoy the slope leading into either gap. Do the platforms make their way into the pits? If so, that'd be awesome. Imagine being saved from falling down by landing on the platform at the last minute! This is the type of think I like to see.

Endless Staircase: The staircases should make for interesting fights, you'd think a person who is higher up would have the upper hand, but it's smash, so all rules are out. It seems to me like this would be a great stage for air-combat since there isn't a lot of level terrain. The only change I'd advice is to take out that center pillar, or at least try it without it. You could replace it with two longer pass-though platforms offset from one another. This can keep the staircase-pattern, and opens the stage up signifigantly.

Dust Bowl: The only thing that seems arguable about this stage is the pinning-edge walls, but you wouldn't have much of a bowl without them, right? Maybe you can replace the edge blocks with a sloped platform? You can keep a bowl-shape that way, but avoid the pinning-aspect. Can you set pass through platforms at angles? If so, maybe you can leave the bottom of the bowl as solid blocks and make the slopes leading up the sides as pass-through platforms. One reason for this, it doesn't make recovering as bad, and you can actually use the platforms to your advantage. Imagine going underneath the bowl to strike at the other players.

Smash Factory: I wish people would use the converyor-belts more. They seem like such a great addition to me. I like the converyor structure here, it's too bad they're so out of the way. It seems to me like people would just focus most of their fighting efforts on that large-ground area you have. Consider replacing it with a couple of smaller platforms and make the conveyor belt area the focus of the fight. Kudos on the floating pillars there. They're the right kind of disruptive since you have try knocking out the opponent in ways where they won't bounce of the surface.

Anyway, I hope people aren't thinking of me as some kind of "my way only" person. I'd just rather see some stages that aren't completely over-the-top.
 

Tristan Darkshade

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
35
I have to agree with you. Sure, people want to make crazy stages, but there should be some more creative stages. When I'm getting the game, that (and a stage based on something) are gonna be two things I do. Something that has style! And substance!

I wish you could make walkoff custom stages...

Also, from that list... "Star Fox - Team Galaxy"? Whoever put that there clearly doesn't know their teams. That's the Diamond/Pearl team of the game. Known as Galactic in the US, if I recall.
 

J18

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
333
Location
Wisconsin
well people are just trying to have fun, not create tournament worthy stages.
 

hpkomic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
21
well people are just trying to have fun, not create tournament worthy stages.
I'm not talking about tourney-worthy stages though. I'm not a tourney player, and I love items.

I am talking about stages that are focused on creating interesting fighting rather than relying on massive sizes and random bits of things stuck together.

I am not saying people SHOULDN'T make these crazy stages, I am just looking for examples of people trying to make more serious ones, because I've not seen many.
 

Kuroneko

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
95
Location
Northern Virginia
Most people are just trying to make something different. Once things settle down they will make more conservative stages.

As to answer your question, I think this stage is the best, posted in another topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7V25TdJhU

Has the variety, while not looking sloppy. They did say they made it in 5 minutes though ( I believe it was the one, the stage was favorited so I didn't check back to the topic when posting this)
 

SD3

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
23
Thanks for your advice! I took note of it, and i'll try it out when I get my copy of Brawl.
Also, from that list... "Star Fox - Team Galaxy"? Whoever put that there clearly doesn't know their teams. That's the Diamond/Pearl team of the game. Known as Galactic in the US, if I recall.
For that stage, I meant I would use music from Star Fox or the Team Galactic theme. Sorry, that was a little unclear. :) I believe they are Galactic in the U.S., but it's been a while since I played Pokemon Diamond and I forgot.

More on topic, I found a user on YouTube who has some videos of some pretty cool custom stages he made. Here is a link: http://uk.youtube.com/user/Twilitblack

If we keep this topic going, maybe more well-designed stages could surface.
 

SmashWolf

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Basicly, I always try to make a both quite full as well as playable stage. Which means having plenty of options to move and KO people. I always use a fight between bots to see how hard it is for them to score a KO. I normally always do large stages, but sometimes I find myself having a hard time filling it up. Also, there should always be multiple ways to get upstairs or downstairs in a stage. It sucks to have your opponent spam a certain place because you can only take 1 way to get to him.
 

Grining_Ghoul

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
131
Location
Tx
Don't worry, i've seen a few posts from ppl here that are planning and sketching out some very fun and reasonable stages! Maybe they made those stages with a lot of "contraptions" as more of a "Lets see who can survive the longest" theme in mind?

:3
 

BigRick

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
3,156
Location
Montreal, Canada AKA Real City brrrrrrrrapp!
Most people are just trying to make something different. Once things settle down they will make more conservative stages.

As to answer your question, I think this stage is the best, posted in another topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7V25TdJhU

Has the variety, while not looking sloppy. They did say they made it in 5 minutes though ( I believe it was the one, the stage was favorited so I didn't check back to the topic when posting this)
lol this stage is not good at all, like he said he made it in 5 minutes

the towers theme has alot of potential though... with some work it could be good
 

hpkomic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
21
Here a few of my own stages. Just goofing around with the editor.

Plus you get commentary about how the stages will likely work, based on what I know of the peices. That being said, not sure how any of them will work until I get Brawl. Only a few more days left to find out, right?



First stage I created when I discovered the flash editor. Not much to say, I like the single long slope coupled with so many platforms on the other side. I'm sure it'd play well, but judging by people's tastes, I'm probably in the minority in enjoying it.



I really, really like this one, symmetrical, but not overly so. The middle section would be awesome to fight around, especially on the lower portion. Wall bouncing, pass through platforms and plety of fighting space. The two moving platforms are simply embellishment, though I can see them being used rather well in battle.



This one is probably a bit larger than it should be, and the sloping floor on either side can probably be reduced and I should remove the down-slopes on either side. That being said, I think the floating platforms would be really useful in the fight, plus there's plenty of open space below for people who prefer a ground-game.



I really like this one. Reminds me of Kongo Jungle in Melee with it's emphasis on layered platforms or a small, bottom level. I love pass-through platforms. There's some excellent variation here, I think. The tiny platforms below the main stage, as well as the vertical moving ones on either side of the stage make for great recovering opportunities.



I'll be interested to see how I can replicate this one in Brawl's editor. Can you set passthrough platforms on top of solid blocks? I don't remember if that's what I did here, but we'll see. Levels can easily be fixed afterall. Once again, symmetry, nobody can complain about unfairness, the pits are entirely avoidable. Moving platforms, once again, are entirely padding, but I think they're adding something pretty neat to the rest of the stage.



I've seen a lot of people replicate Saffron City from SSB, and I can understand why. It's a great stage and sky-scraper fights are awesome. That's why Fourside is my all time favorite Melee stage. This stage is definitely smaller and flatter, but the princible is the same. Along the sides of the building I threw up platforms. Good for recovery and might make for interesting building-side fights. Moving horizontal platforms are probably not needed, once again, added for embellishment. The verticle moving platform in the center gap is something I like.




Trying to find a balance between the stage gimmicks can be challenging. Too little of them on the stage makes you wonder why you bothered, while too many makes the stage look too over the top. Here I think I found a balance. The blocks that fall create gaps between the three fighting platforms. I like the floating pass-through platform on the left, and the moving ones on the right balance out the stage a bit so it doesn't feel like it's leaning in a certain direction.



Simple. Like Battlefield, except with more stuff to do. *shrug*

Anyway, maybe once I get into the actual editor. I'll submit some more.
 

Talendime

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
559


I really, really like this one, symmetrical, but not overly so. The middle section would be awesome to fight around, especially on the lower portion. Wall bouncing, pass through platforms and plety of fighting space. The two moving platforms are simply embellishment, though I can see them being used rather well in battle.
That one is amazing. Awesome. I'm totally making it as exact as I can.
 

Billiards Koopa

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
11
I'm actually planning two stages. Both remakes.

Mario's Cement Factory. Remake of the G&W game.

Metal Kingdom. Remake of Metal Mario's stage in the first SSB.
 

hpkomic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
21
it's just what people like and i think you can do whatever you feel looks right.
That's fine. If you read the thread, you'd see that my intent was not to dictate how I feel stages should be made, but requests for examples of stages that are more serious in their structure.
 

TiersAreReal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
146
hpkomic, I really like those stages, especially the first two and the last one.
 

BX3

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
9
hpkomic, I am so stealing those stages. They look awesome.

BTW, can someone be gracious enough to give me a link to this web stage creator tester thing? I've had some stuff planned in my mind and it'd be nice to have on a format. Kinda like a blueprint so I don't forget.

EDIT*
nvm, found it. again hpkomic, great layouts.
 

courte

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
1,679
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NY
but from what i've seen don't all of the stages have that bottom space?? there appears to be no way to make a stage which extends all the way to the bottom... or are people so against such mushroom kingdom concepts from tourney's acting against such layouts is against their dna
 

J0™

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
91
Location
The Netherlands
I also highly dislike the random/chaotic/messy stages, this is what I made some weeks ago, looks pretty fun to me:



Translation: Name:"Castle Thingy" and Comment:"Hi" (posted it on a Dutch forum 1st)

You could also change the stage any way you like, by removing the spikes or lowering the walls e.g.
 

Mic_128

Wake up...
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but from what i've seen don't all of the stages have that bottom space?? there appears to be no way to make a stage which extends all the way to the bottom...
True, you can't have it go all the way to the bottom, but you can do it so that even if they go under there's still no chance of living. Just take a look at any Safron City remake.

I made a couple that Aren't Too Bad
 

Giga Hand

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
218
Location
Final Destination
I've thought of a couple of REALLY playable stages. They're about as intricate as Battlefield, and one of them even has an origin. Sadly, I can't work the flash stage creator, so I'll just describe them. Here goes...

Halberd Bridge

Long, solid and flat floor with a large-ish fall through platform in the top right. Where Kirby usually faces Meta Knight in his games.


Ruined Destination

Basically Final Destination with holes. Good for aerial battles.


Like them?
 

Senshuu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
447
Location
TN, USA
Something about the crowded created stages is funnier. A lot of them were made to be intentionally chaotic, which was also my first impulse. Gonna get all the chaotic stages out of my system when I get the game, then settle in and focus on some really nice ones.

I like the stuff posted in this thread.
 

rude6767

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
7
Hmmm...i know what you mean. Stages are usually overcrowded. A good stage should take one concept, one idea and build on that. Not just throw platforms around and have mushrooms hanging in the air. I will also be diving into the stage editor myself but in the meantime...

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=149934

...give these a go. And please, by all means, criticize away. I want as many opinions and adjustments lined up before I get the game so I got me a good blueprint to work with and I'm looking for EXACTLY the kind of opinion as you. So please, drop by :)

EDIT: Actually, here's the direct link http://www.filefactory.com/file/9cfeab/
 

hpkomic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
21
I'm quite pleased by how this thread is going, especially since I am one of those cursed "casuaaaaaaaaaaals!". I'll be sure to look and give my thoughts on all the stages people have shown off so far, once I get some essay-work done. I guess at this point I am sort of a stage-critic?

Anyway, thanks for everyone who understood what I was getting at with this thread, and thanks for your kind words on the stages I posted! I actually have more to share! Some are much better than the others, and I think that's because of me not having all the peices in this flash editor as I would in brawl. I also have some questions about peices and certain stages I made, but we'll get to that at each stage. If anyone makes them in brawl, let me see how they look, since a few people have the game right now.

Anyway, some stages.



I hadn't used mushrooms much before, but I like them since they're three platforms in one package, right? Not much to say here. Simple and effective. The slopes limit players a bit, but the floating platform makes up for that, which I can see as being the "main part" of the stage. Once again, I know how basic this is.



From what I can tell about the tourney scene, a lot of level bans are the results of exploits by Fox, right? I crafted this stage as a kind of anti-fox/falco spamming tactic. No long stretches for laser spamming (coughcoughFinalDestination) and a focus on air-combat. Once again, very simple, and you should notice at this point that I LOVE those pass-through platforms SO much. I'm a Ness player, so nothing is greater than being able to PKThunder2 myself through the platform into a crowd of people fighting.



I am not quite sure on all the specifics on Ice. Can the blocks be melted by fire in combat? Can blocks of ice have different shapes such as slopes? Not knowing all the details on the ice block, I decided this may work. You have three main floating plaforms, below you have your last chance recovering area, as well as a more dramatic section with the ice. Any problems with this stage I would attribute to not knowing enough about the way the ice works.



A combination of my crumbling tower stage as well as the first temple stage I posted here. You do have a spot where you can jam someone up against a wall, but not for long since the block will fall. Once again, tried to make the idea of the falling blocks a vital part of the stage, so once their gone, the stage gets much smaller for a while. The moving platforms are entirely optional.



My first real attempt at a stage that controls the movement of the fight. Here, you should really only be able to KO people above, to the left, or below if you can clear out the falling blocks. Lots of moving platforms, and probably the busiest and crowded stage I've done in this editor yet. Strip out the moving platforms if you desire.



A more streamlined version of the prior Layers stage. Should be good for jumping and air-fighting.



This stage is one I really want to see work. However, I know very little about how the conveyor belts work. My original concept was a small platform of solid blocks with a couple right-moving conveyor belts to the right, and the opposite on the left. Unfortunately the converor belts in the flash editor are not level with the blocks. So, anyone, in Brawl, can the conveyor-belts be level with the standard blocks? That being said, this would be a hell of a fun stage. The fact the entire stretch of the stage is a converyor belt requires you to focus on your air-movements. We'll assume that at the middle the right side goes right and the left side goes left. This is one I really want to see become a major level people play, I just need to know all the details and refine it from there. So if anyone can give me some more information, I'll be very grateful.



This was loosely based on the "Fight Club" in Melee's Hyrule Temple. The section at the bottom of the stage with the ceilings, the bouncing, and the small platform to the side. Please ignore the open spots and ramps built into the middle of the lower part of the stage, they were my attempt at tacky decoration.



Not much to say. My least favorite of this batch.
 

Whatnow88

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
13
Location
Central California BFC 0516-6973-7296 Up for anyth
I think at first people feel the need to "fill" the grid area. So they add things to add them without considering that they might want to leave two or three spaces between everything so characters can use their movesets more effectively.

Then their are the novelty stages. The rooms with nothing but spikes at the bottom , and the boxes that can't be escaped.

Most of this will end with time a natural evolution if you will. Already the custom box stages that used to never end now have holes or drop block portions to make it so eventually characters will be knocked out.

Don't get angry but do observe others stages and learn from them.

Here are some of the stages I've liked.


Unknown- uses falling blocks of different sizes in an interesting way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmFhcebChAI


Crazy Stage- Has all the novelty of The Box or Infinite stages but with an interesting twist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p08QDBmjl0&feature=related
 
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