Why are people so ashamed at admitting defeat to a level 9?

[LavisFiend]

It is kind of funny really. It is like they are afraid to come out and just say that they were ***** by a level 9 Lucario, Pikachu, or Metaknight.

It is even more of a hilarity when they try to downtalk their skill when clearly the level 9's in this Smash are a force to be reckoned with.

In Melee, Level 9's had a very limited repertoire of skills and combat prowess. Not to mention, once you found out the simplistic pattern, you could thrash them.

In Brawl however, Level 9's don't screw around. They will use items, They will perfect shield (nearly 85% of the frickin' time) They roll, they use full smashes, they ledge grab, AND they gimp! That is just the surface, as their whole AI patterns seem to be a lot more complicated in the sense that they seem to use moves that counter your own, AND seemingly can "predict" what you are going to do before you do it. So if you are predictable, there is a chance that they can "adapt" to that and punish for you.

I say "adapt" but it is obviously not the same as a human's adaptation. They can seemingly adapt because the patterns you exhibit are far more frequent, and become common, so the AI repeats it's pre rendered pattern to abuse for it.

I just don't understand how silly people can be when it comes to admitting defeat to a smart computer. Don't assume that something is wrong with you if you lose to a level 9 in BRAWL, because a level 9 in Brawl is far more smarter than a level 9 in melee will ever be.

As a matter of fact? Play a level 7 in Brawl. They are very reminiscent of a level 9 computer from Melee. THEN, play a level 9 in Brawl. The differences are big.

Computers can now be used for great practice, but should not be the only practice, nor is it the best. Human vs. Human will always be prevalent, and far more preferred, but don't assume that you can not gain anything by facing a level 9 brawl computer. You can learn so much about another characters moves and what to counter with when the computer is hard pressing you with the full extent of his character's moveset. At the very least, it makes good training if you have a friend who uses a character you can't best.

Meanwhile, I am trying my hardest to beat a team of a level 9 Marth and a level 9 Ike. I get very close, managing to drag them too one stock, but I slip up and they **** me.

So what are your views on the whole level 9 thing?

 

[MyRevenge.]

I just witnessed a level 7 computer beating a level 9 by two stock...
Therefore melee level 9s are better?

Haha, Just kidding... yea level 9s are pretty tough in this game...
But you should never lose to them... especially if you on smashboards

 

[blayde_axel]

People are afraid to admit defeat to Lvl 9's? Why? They're good! lol.

Then again, I haven't been on as much. I guess the "No Johns" rule is out these days.

 

[Frey]

Lvl 9s actually are good practice for reflexes and follow ups, because in brawl they actually usually get out of any non-real combo, so you need to find out good follow ups, which when i play online, work with humans pretty well. I have died many times when i started maining dedede against lvl9s but they teach you how you should play your character in order to win.

 

[WuTangDude]

Because level 9's are easy to beat. I've lost a few (mainly to Pikachu), but I still win the majority.

 

[Mr.Lombardi34]

I don't know, I, being the Metagame failure that I am, had a bit of a tough time with certain melee level 9's. In brawl, though, as long as I use a character that I am decent with, I can beat them 9/10 times. I don't know, maybe it's because I'm better at brawl than melee...

 

[shizzlee]

Level 9's are good practice, but I have never lost to one.

 

[Tore' Kong]

I've lost to level 9 cpu's a few times, but those losses have made me a better player.

I have learned some neat Samus strategies from level 9 Samus CPU's, but I still can't get over how good level 9's are at perfect shielding.

 

[Cinatas]

I lost to a lvl 9 the first few times i played, they are allot better and i was kinda new to the feel of brawl but after a few or more matches its easy to pick up there strategy. i think there allot funer to play with than the melee lvl 9s, better practice

 

[Spellman]

I usually win, but not by any great amount. It's usually close. I go in with a pretty clear head. I have lost though. I've only played level 9 computers on the Halberd, Final Destination, and some of the medium sized simple maps that I made in the stage builder.

 

[Tyros]

I actually love how the computers in Brawl know how to hold their own. I'll proudly state that I've lost a good few matches at the hands of certain Level 9 Computers. But I'll also offer this possible explanation:

Computers are much better at the physics of Brawl than we are. They needed no transition from Melee to Brawl. As for us... We may have issues with trying to play Brawl like we're playing Melee, and so we get punished for it.

All I'm really saying here is that, maybe in a year or so, when everyone's fully used to the transition... maybe they won't be as fearsome as they can be now. Either way... I am grateful for a more competent computer to fight against.

- Tyros

 

[pirkid]

I prefer level 8s to Level 9s. Just because in an FFA match, ALL THE CPUs aim for you no matter what, until your dead, with everything they've got.

Yes, I've lost quite a few matches to them. No I am not ashamed. I will continue to train on them.

However, considering that Brawl is only a fortnight old, perhaps some of us just haven't mastered everything there is to master. I speak of those who have admit to losing and are not ashamed.
Most of us are still at the "floor" level, and in a few years we all might be perfect shielding with ease and air dodging everything, while laughing at our former selves when we thought level 9s were hard.

Who knows.

 

[RedMage8BT]

Eh, Melee level 9's were harder IMO.

Having never played Sheik, I 2-stocked a Level 9 Marth in Brawl.

 

[Chaosblade77]

I'm not too ashamed of losing to level 9 computers in Brawl when it's played fairly. A lot of people go into matches with level 9 computers and find ways to gimp the A.I. and use cheap tactics to win. When you do that every match and see a player who admits to losing to a level 9, they are going to use their past experience with the computer to determine how much of an embarrassment it is.

I think the problem that people have with the A.I. is they focus too much on "doing anything to win" rather than doing something more useful, like practicing timing and reflexes, learning characters and match ups (at least in this stage of the game), and combos or follow ups to your attacks. Personally, I'd rather lose a match to a level 9 computer and enhance my reflexes against those input-reading machines rather than gimp the system and win.

Edit:
And from my experience, I do think the AI has some sort of learning going on. I believe part of that massive block of save data on your Wii actually goes toward the games AI. While it's nothing drastic, I think it does take notes on not only things that work against the people who play the game, but things that don't work and things that the player does that is effective.

Evidence? The AI got noticeably better one day, and I couldn't explain it. One night I was playing and was consistently beating the level 9 CPUs. Got home from class the next day and things were completely the opposite... ok, not quite. I lost a few matches before I got back into it and started winning. Maybe I just needed to warm up? Maybe it was an off streak? I don't know, all I know is they definitely seemed better.

Other evidence is that the A.I. seems to do things more often now than they did when I first got the game. The most noticeable thing is edgehogging. I get edgehogged by the A.I. (attempted, at least) at least once a match. When I was playing them right after I got the game, they wouldn't edgehog intentionally. It would be a rare occurrence and I would be like "Wow, the CPU just tried to edgehog..."

Or maybe I'm crazy... but if the CPU does take notes on your tactics and attempts to build tactics to compete, that would be really nice.

 

[TheJalapeno]

They get close. **** close.

But it's frustrating how good they can be.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Honestly, I can 3-stock a level 9 Ike. Toon Link, on the other hand, I want to rip his little face off.

 

[tafutureboy]

I beat a level 9 mario today..and won with 1 stock left 182%

They are difficult...but I'm training with my main right now, so I need to beat them easier

 

[Christova]

With a couple of my mains I sometimes end up going into SD with lvl 9s for timed brawls, and since I usually practice the most with DeDeDe and Zelda I can usually sideB and blow them away quickly.

In stock matches I always seem to win, though. I really don't know why. Maybe seeing my little character's faces at the bottom of the screen motivates me.

 

[Tofu Beast]

Dude, level 9s pwn

 

[Drclaw411]

dude level 9s arent hard to beat.....

 

[feyth]

I can usually manage a level 9 or two, but honestly, it doesn't bother me if I lose.

I think it's just human nature. Most people don't like admitting they lose, to save face. Just my idea, anyway. I generally use them to practice new characters and to see if I can actually use certain techniques in actual Brawls... They're closest I can get to a human player imo.

Just my two pence. ^^

 

[KiteDXX]

The thing about Lv 9s is that they're not human. They have the ability to respond to things frames after they happen, something humans cannot do.

Sure, it may be possible to consistently beat them, exploit them, etc., but they're generally tough opponents.

 

[Supax]

I can usually manage a level 9 or two, but honestly, it doesn't bother me if I lose.

I think it's just human nature. Most people don't like admitting they lose, to save face. Just my idea, anyway. I generally use them to practice new characters and to see if I can actually use certain techniques in actual Brawls... They're closest I can get to a human player imo.

Just my two pence. ^^

Uhmmm... Maybe 1, but you can't beat 2.. No offense.. I don't know anyone that can consistently beat 2 level 9's.

To respond to this thread... Level 9's aren't bad if you play them like humans, but if you learn their patterns, then they become easier. It's better to play them like humans for practice though, because learning to outsmart a computer won't work on a human.

 

[killbeast301]

The computers are better than melee.
I used link's b-air on a lv.3 fox, and the fox powersheilded both kicks. I can still beat the comps, I was just surprised to see a lv.3 powersheild...especially two hits in a row like that.

 

[OddCrow]

Level 9 CPU's make me angry, they have perfect timing and avoid nearly every attack, their game is purely defensive. I lose every now and then, but <____> their reflexes are super-human.

 

[feyth]

Uhmmm... Maybe 1, but you can't beat 2.. No offense.. I don't know anyone that can consistently beat 2 level 9's.

Ah, sorry, I didn't mean at the same time, I meant more... one once in a while.
My bad, I didn't write that too clearly.

 

[BOTA]

haha the cpus are really good in this game, i compare a lvl 9 from melee to about a lvl 3 in this game but yeah whenever i play vs one its always close

 

[Flamesamurai]

I lose too level nines if there is no items on. The highest i can beat without items is a level 7.

 

[Marie_54]

At first i got owned by level 9s. (Probably because i started with the Wii-Mote and Nunchuck) but now they seem to be lacking to me, compared to cpus in *INTENSE* All Star Mode, I usually was like "OMG you did not just do that mother f***** it was only an illusion!" and then the continue was what 100,200, or 300 coins? I can't remember but i was like NOoooooo my money!!

Meh, i should try again now, that was the second time i had played All Star.


Anyways level 9s aren't evil... Level 5s are... Seriously, i was playing with a friend of mine that is really good at smash and we always played against each other and level 9s and one of us always won, then our smash n00b friend arrived and i said: "Hey lets lower the cpu level for this poor lil' n00b!"

After that the level 5 won at a 4 minute match... Twice.

We were like WTF!? and my n00b friend started laughing.

Although now I believe we were too focused on killing each other while the cpu killed the n00b and the computer did stupid things that we didn't expect to be so stupid and it killed us a few times... Like punching a bomb in front of him... Yes we should have turned items off...


Stupidity kills...

Edit- Noticed i didn't write down intense in all star mode...

 

[Rash]

I can usually beat level 9s, but they've always given me a certain level of trouble at first, both in Melee and in Brawl. You shouldn't be ashamed to lose to one in Brawl, because they're actually competent opponents in Brawl. Yeah, they may not give you the same mindgames and may sometimes be strategically predictable, but unlike in Melee, they're a halfway decent alternative to fighting human players when you're in need of working on your reflexes. The kinds of maneuvers they can pull are definitely impressive; probably the best you'll see in a Smash Brothers game.

 

[BrawlBro]

Someone on here said, I forget who, that practicing on level 9s actually makes you 'worse' which caught my attention. I forget what their argument was but i think it had something to do with how unhuman they are, they play good but they do play like a computer.

So now I always mix up the computer level I play against so I get hit with different tactics and stuff.

Practicing on lower levels is goos combo practice too because the level9 blocks anything thats not perfect..

 

[Maldazzar]

Level 9 CPUs can be very hard to beat, expecially if you have multiples of them (either teamed against you or FFA) since they tend to gang up on players. So yes, I have lost a few times while I figured out "Hey, this is FFA but they are ganging up on me!"

Also, I'm not ashamed to admit that I have lost to them multiple times while practicing Brawl's new characters on them. It's just part of getting used to the newest character additions.

 

[J0K3R]

It is kind of funny really. It is like they are afraid to come out and just say that they were ***** by a level 9 Lucario, Pikachu, or Metaknight.

It is even more of a hilarity when they try to downtalk their skill when clearly the level 9's in this Smash are a force to be reckoned with.

In Melee, Level 9's had a very limited repertoire of skills and combat prowess. Not to mention, once you found out the simplistic pattern, you could thrash them.

In Brawl however, Level 9's don't screw around. They will use items, They will perfect shield (nearly 85% of the frickin' time) They roll, they use full smashes, they ledge grab, AND they gimp! That is just the surface, as their whole AI patterns seem to be a lot more complicated in the sense that they seem to use moves that counter your own, AND seemingly can "predict" what you are going to do before you do it. So if you are predictable, there is a chance that they can "adapt" to that and punish for you.

I say "adapt" but it is obviously not the same as a human's adaptation. They can seemingly adapt because the patterns you exhibit are far more frequent, and become common, so the AI repeats it's pre rendered pattern to abuse for it.

I just don't understand how silly people can be when it comes to admitting defeat to a smart computer. Don't assume that something is wrong with you if you lose to a level 9 in BRAWL, because a level 9 in Brawl is far more smarter than a level 9 in melee will ever be.

As a matter of fact? Play a level 7 in Brawl. They are very reminiscent of a level 9 computer from Melee. THEN, play a level 9 in Brawl. The differences are big.

Computers can now be used for great practice, but should not be the only practice, nor is it the best. Human vs. Human will always be prevalent, and far more preferred, but don't assume that you can not gain anything by facing a level 9 brawl computer. You can learn so much about another characters moves and what to counter with when the computer is hard pressing you with the full extent of his character's moveset. At the very least, it makes good training if you have a friend who uses a character you can't best.

Meanwhile, I am trying my hardest to beat a team of a level 9 Marth and a level 9 Ike. I get very close, managing to drag them too one stock, but I slip up and they **** me.

So what are your views on the whole level 9 thing?

I can 3 stock level 9 comps in brawl with most characters. lol.

 

[SharkAttack]

I've lost and won some matches against level 9's. My saying is that if you can't beat a level 9 there's no way your going to stand a chance against a pro using the same character. Because of this I keep playing 11 minute level 9 matches to get the handle of the opponents nature along with learning new tricks of my own.

 

[shatoga]

I noticed the learning thing to.Hell maybe it's just a coincidence, but when i started blocking wolf's lasers, he started coming at my full force.Whenever i changed my plan he changed his to beat mine.

 

[Cheezball]

I don't know, I, being the Metagame failure that I am, had a bit of a tough time with certain melee level 9's. In brawl, though, as long as I use a character that I am decent with, I can beat them 9/10 times. I don't know, maybe it's because I'm better at brawl than melee...

What he said. I can't beat a level 9 melee Marth, while I can defeat a CPU 9 in brawl without losing any lives (I normally do 4 lives).

 

[ChromeSonic00]

I like to face level 9's so I can see the improvement they have made from Melee (And they have improved a lot.) I can beat and have fun facing them, even if I lose. (Except for Pit, I always lose to him)

 

[Supax]

I've lost and won some matches against level 9's. My saying is that if you can't beat a level 9 there's no way your going to stand a chance against a pro using the same character. Because of this I keep playing 11 minute level 9 matches to get the handle of the opponents nature along with learning new tricks of my own.

Why wouldn't you be able to stand a chance against a pro???? A lot of pro smashers win off mind games (those that aren't as technical as others) and mind games aren't possible then level 9s... If you know what you are doing and you can out smart a good player, there is no reason you can't beat him...

 

[SharkAttack]

Why wouldn't you be able to stand a chance against a pro???? A lot of pro smashers win off mind games (those that aren't as technical as others) and mind games aren't possible then level 9s... If you know what you are doing and you can out smart a good player, there is no reason you can't beat him...

Very true. Anytime one can outsmart an opponent a victory is very likely. What I should have stated better was that if one can't beat a level 9 because they don't have the skill or the knowledge of how their character works there is no way or a very slim chance that same player will defeat a human opponent that has mastered combos and skills for their player. A player that has mastered their character always beats level 9's one on one because they know how to beat a computer that can't play mind games. (When playing seriously) True anyone can win at anytime, but it's more likely that those that can beat level 9's will generally beat those that normally can't or struggle to. No one should be ashamed to lose to a level 9; but instead realize there is room for improvement.

 

[chrisking570]

i win the majority of my matches against lvl 9s, but i have lost a few, mainly to Toon link and Marth, although i have only played against Ike, Pikachu and Mario once or twice, and won against each of those although it was VERY close (i play 20 stock against cpu, and they had me down to like 2-5 stock by the time i won)