Why are CPU's bad for practice?

[Kalomaze]

I know that they have frame perfect blocking which makes them a pain in the ass to punish at times, and that they do some very odd things. What are the other actions they take that are different from the optimal strategy of a human player? Does it give you a poor idea of what to do against a human player? And if so, in what ways is this true (i.e avoiding attacks in an sub-optimal way)

 

[Nah]

It gives you a poor idea of what to do against a human player because it's.....not a human player. Don't even have to get specific about it really, it's just an apples and oranges kind of thing really.

 

[BKC1992]

Because it's a computer. If you want to practice to beat other players, you have to practice against other players. Not trying to be mean or anything, but it's competitive logic.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You can't fight CPUs the same way as with a human player. On higher difficulty levels, they can potentially read your inputs, which is something that a human player can't do perfectly all the time.

Also, some CPU fighters tend to spam certain attacks too frequently, which can give you opportunities to punish them if you're using the proper fighter. A notable example is Bowser Jr., who tends to overuse his Clown Cannon or Mechakoopa special moves; for someone like Fox, the Clown Cannon can easily be used to his advantage, thanks to his Reflector.

Similarly, Dr. Mario has the tendency to use Dr. Tornado in a reckless manner, which is easily countered by counter attacks or shield-grabs.

 

[Locuan]

I'd like to provide a counter argument. CPU's can be good for practice. When I played competitive Brawl all I had for practice was against CPU's. Internet in my country was not great. This meant that I would constantly lag if playing against other people online. Additionally, I was new to the competitive scene so I had no access to practice against people irl at the time. By practicing against CPU's I was able to defeat or go to close sets against PR'd players in my region. However, CPU's should not be set to max level due to the statements others have made above. With these things mentioned, lets go into why practicing against CPU's can be helpful:

• Fundamentals: You can practice spacing your moves pretty well against CPU's. As well as getting a general game sense on the neutral game.
• Power Shielding: You can make it a small goal to power-shield the CPU's attacks so you have a general idea on the timing for certain characters moves.
• Combos: There are certain combos that, after initiated, work well against a wide pool of players.

I think these three points are well worth to practice against CPU's. In fact I'd say the first point is one of the most important. Having strong fundamentals can lead to much more wins that, from my experience, many players seem to not give credit to. That being said, make sure to not go against CPU's at max level since these will definitely employ what others have stated above. A good base point would be around level 6-7.

 

[Alsyght]

It’s not good when you’re trying to practice against a CPUlv9. I find it useful to practice combos and tricks on a moving target on a level 1 CPU, however, Their attacks are a bit unpredictable imo, but everything else it fine. They’ll give you a feel on non-online play, which slows down the frame rate of the controller to system, from what I’ve heard, and you’ll see improvement with your movement and gameplay. Otherwise, no, it’s not good to practice on a CPU.

 

[Bobert]

They're fine for a certain type of practice if you don't have them set to Lv. 8-9, which is when they start immediately reacting to your inputs. You will generally improve at any game if you play it for a long time, especially if you know what to practice. I used cpus a lot for practicing my spacing and frame traps/basic combos when I didn't have anybody else to practice with, and I still do occasionally. They can also be decent for learning basic things in match-ups, like punishing that characters recovery, or knowing what attacks in general are good for punishing the enemies attacks.

On the other hand, they don't really perform any combos or edge-guarding, they literally can't specifically target your bad habits like players will do because they're very simple AI, and they tend to throw out unsafe moves occasionally if you're even somewhat close to them. Good players will try to get in your head and will be better at keeping you in disadvantage than CPUS, so CPUS don't really prepare you for this sort of thing at all. They also tend to do the same things repeatedly and won't mix up their options. For example, Fox and Falco will literally Phantasm into you from offstage at the exact same height nearly 100% of the time whenever it's possible, and Roy will never recover low and will always sweet spot the ledge at the exact same angle every time. Playing them at a higher level than 7 is even worse because they will always use air dodging as a defensive option in the air, even if you attack them close to the ground which sets them up for the exact same air dodge punish multiple times in a row because of the landing lag on air dodging.

TL;DR: They're fine for practice/warming up if they're below level 8, but they're still not the best replacements for practice with a real human.

 

[Crystanium]

Humans adapt. AIs don't, or at least not to the degree humans do. AIs aren't interested in trying to improve with you. You're better off practicing combos on AIs so you have an idea of what you're capable of doing. Of course, this doesn't account for DI, although it seems AIs do DI at times. I suspect it's not intentional.

 

[DrPerplexion]

lvl 9 CPUs are spawns of satan.

 

[Uffe]

Basically a lot of what people said. Back in Melee, I actually did practice against a level 9 Fox, and it was a very horrible idea. I was able to predict what it was going to do next, and I'd punish it every time. Then I fought my brother's Samus, and I had a very hard time dealing with him because I had picked up very bad habits that would only work against a level 9 CPU and not an actual player. Keep in mind that I was able to deal with my brother's Samus prior to falling into bad habits.

 

[IJustMakeThings]

I know that they have frame perfect blocking which makes them a pain in the *** to punish at times, and that they do some very odd things. What are the other actions they take that are different from the optimal strategy of a human player? Does it give you a poor idea of what to do against a human player? And if so, in what ways is this true (i.e avoiding attacks in an sub-optimal way)

but when you think about it. its makes you better than a human if you practice enough.

 

[KirbCider]

It can be a bit of a 50/50 type of thing; however I will say you should not heavily rely on CPUs for practice.

As some have already stated in this Thread they can be used to help with specific things. Practicing certain combos for example can make a CPU a little useful as far as getting better goes. At the same time however, they can be pretty stupid too. They might instill bad habits onto you once you get used to playing against them. They may have some combos programmed into them but they will not know or use every combo/string that everyone else knows how to use.

On top of that, some do not use their tools or certain moves as effectively as real players do.

Some don't even know how to recover correctly for that matter and will normally not mix up their recoveries either. If you play against a CPU for too long you may get the wrong idea about how a character may work, but at the same time you can learn what KO's them at what percents and so forth at least.

So it could be a tiny bit effective, especially to a new player or if you know how exactly to practice against one.

But as I said at the start, if you use CPUs too much your growth as a player may get stunted pretty bad if you overuse them for practice.

 

[itsjustoskar]

If you are practicing for a match with a REAL person, you can play with CPU's but then also play Online mode. If you are practicing for CPUs (idk why tho) then go with CPUs

CPUs have specific types of commands to do and a person can do anything. So i mean, practice if you want with CPUs but don't make it your only type of practice for real human matches.

 

[Kugelhagelfisch]

You can't practice any aerials against them. Up to level 7 the AI is so bad that they are completely useless, from level 8 they will air dodge everything.
That alone takes out so much of what makes Smash what it is. You can't ever bait a lvl9 AI because they will only airdodge when you press a button. The only time you're ever going to hit them in the air is when the attack is completely unavoidable, which isn't something you'd need to practice.

That said, the AI just plain can't deal with certain things. I main Dedede and the AI can't deal with gordos. It only knows the vanilla forward one. A fast or tilted gordo will completely mess them up. They also have a hard time dealing with Ganondorf. You can just forward/downtilt them all day long or even down air them repeatedly because they can't handle with the massive hitbox they can't challenge.

I'd say that lvl 8 AI is the most useful one. It's not quite as big of a cheater as a 9 but also doesn't play like a person would. But you should absolutely be able to faceroll them at least with your main. I guess learning how to exploit their weaknesses is a bit like figuring out a player and maybe you could take that much away from them. Otherwise, use low level AI for combo practice. They will DI pretty randomly and are fine for that.
If you can, just go online for actual practice. The annoying Bayo/Cloud tryhards you'll need to learn how to deal with anyway and getting dunked on is the best lesson.