Why am I so predictable as Sonic now?

[shinhed-echi]

I haven't had too many opportunities to play as the blue blur with friends, so I've only been able to test him out on WiFi matches.

But for some reason, people adapt EXTREMELY quickly to my playstyle.

Bear in mind I've played Sonic competitively throughout Brawl, and I "naturally progressed" him to SSB4.
But for some reason, even though he's been buffed and all, every match I play as him is a hard one due to my opponent reacting EXACTLY like they should.

Is Sonic THAT easily read in SSB4? Am I relying on my same old tricks? Or am I feeling the limitations of a lack of C-Stick in my arsenal? Is SSB4 still a defense-oriented game?

It's hard to say for me since I've been using the same strategies that placed me high in Brawl tournaments where I live in.
BTW, I totally hate his new Uair. I can't connect the 2 hits to save my life.

 

[Jaysonic]

If you seem too predictable, change it up. Use different moves in different situations to see what happens. You have nothing to lose anyway. See what other Sonic's are doing and try to do some things they do too.

 

[SmashBro99]

Because Sonic is predictable, I doubt it's your fault.

90% of Sonic's I face only do:

-Dash Attack (shield grabbed)
-Side B - Uair (easy to dodge)
-Neutral B (easy to avoid with how it works, punishable)

He has a lot of good stuff, I don't think he's bad at all, just having seen much from this character besides what I listed.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

The "good" thing about 90% of the Sonics being predictable is that it's highly probable that you'll find someone who's already conditioned to fight those kinds of Sonics.

Yesterday I fought a (quite good) Ness player and he'd ALWAYS try to Uair OoS when I hit his shield with a roll special.. After he noticed it, I was then having a field day alternating between SD to aerials and destroying his shield with SCR->turnaround->SCR->Ftilt.

 

[Camalange]

Because Sonic is predictable, I doubt it's your fault.

90% of Sonic's I face only do:

90% of Sonic's you face are bad.

Predictability, at it's core, is the fault of the player. If anything, Sonic actually has more tools than most for mix-up options, as is the nature of a bait-and-punish character.

Especially with all this debate about Sonic being in the upper echelon of the cast, players can only blame themselves. Don't use your character as a scapegoat for your own shortcomings. Acknowledge their strengths and weaknesses, yes, of course... But just because a lot of people are playing a character predictably doesn't mean it's an inherent fault in the character.

 

[Shiny Shovel]

If I become too predictable, I like to hang out on the opposite side of the stage and force them to approach. How many Sonics have you seen just chillin on the other side? Also, mix up your side and down special. Even so, don't always SCJ-Uair.

S.S.

 

[Camalange]

After he noticed it, I was then having a field day alternating between SD to aerials and destroying his shield with SCR->turnaround->SCR->Ftilt.

I'm definitely going to be exploring these options more. I see great potential.

ALSO...

Noticed you said SCR... Are we finally classifying each roll as they should be? Can we do this now? Are they two different moves?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I think so. I mean, it's likely (not to mention highly possible) that both moves still share the same stale move negation data but the sheer fact that the roll from SD is a single hit and the one from SC is a multihit should be enough to warrant them their own names from now on.

Not to mention the different knockbacks on SDJ and SCJ (SCJ sounds a bit weird to me, though)..

 

[Camalange]

I think so. I mean, it's likely (not to mention highly possible) that both moves still share the same stale move negation data but the sheer fact that the roll from SD is a single hit and the one from SC is a multihit should be enough to warrant them their own names from now on.

Not to mention the different knockbacks on SDJ and SCJ (SCJ sounds a bit weird to me, though)..

I totally agree. The only thing concerning me was stale move data, but it has been bothering me that we universally referred to things as SDR or SDJ when they have different properties.

Let's push the movement.

EDIT: Does that mean we now have VSDJ and VSCJ?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I totally agree. The only thing concerning me was stale move data, but it has been bothering me that we universally referred to things as SDR or SDJ when they have different properties.

Let's push the movement.

EDIT: Does that mean we now have VSDJ and VSCJ?

Interesting question, I'll try it out later.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Huh, get this: absolutely no change in VSDJ knockback. Charge doesn't change anything either.

However, SDJ is still stronger than SCJ..

Also, when using VSDJ, the "front" part of the attack is actually stronger than its "back" (quite negligible, but still..).

If you wanna try it out, I've tested this against Jiggs on Battlefield @ around 208%, resetting after every hit.

Oh, and as someone's already pointed out, the VSDJ knockback now works like HA's: it will always send the opponents in the direction that Sonic's facing.

 

[Kinzer]

Because Sonic is predictable, I doubt it's your fault.

90% of Sonic's I face only do:

-Dash Attack (shield grabbed)
-Side B - Uair (easy to dodge)
-Neutral B (easy to avoid with how it works, punishable)

He has a lot of good stuff, I don't think he's bad at all, just having seen much from this character besides what I listed.

I was going to roast you for making the remark; but, then I saw:

90% of Sonic's you face are bad.

Predictability, at it's core, is the fault of the player. If anything, Sonic actually has more tools than most for mix-up options, as is the nature of a bait-and-punish character.

Especially with all this debate about Sonic being in the upper echelon of the cast, players can only blame themselves. Don't use your character as a scapegoat for your own shortcomings. Acknowledge their strengths and weaknesses, yes, of course... But just because a lot of people are playing a character predictably doesn't mean it's an inherent fault in the character.

And all was right in the world.

I'm just glad that Sonic is now a character that actually rewards you for good play. F*** actually being better at this game than my opponent but he wins anyway just because of ONE glaring weakness in my character rather than my mid-match misplay.

He's not stupid easy like MK in Brawl who just had everything which allowed him to get away with so many mistakes and still go places if he was so much as played somewhat efficiently.

There's no excuse other than the player's shortcomings. Sonic has everything necessary to win.

 

[shinhed-echi]

After playing with a lot more dedication, I'm finally having better results online.

Not sure what exactly changed in my game (I'm getting good at reading reactions perhaps, and I might be adapting to no C-Stick) but I'm finally winning a lot.

I agree it's not the characters fault. I know I was doing something wrong.. Maybe I still am, although a lot less.
Maybe, and it's ridiculously silly, I was still stuck on Brawl Sonic.
But I'm doing a lot better. I'm going to be asking fellow Sonic mains to spar with me sometime.

 

[Camalange]

Huh, get this: absolutely no change in VSDJ knockback. Charge doesn't change anything either.

However, SDJ is still stronger than SCJ..

Also, when using VSDJ, the "front" part of the attack is actually stronger than its "back" (quite negligible, but still..).

If you wanna try it out, I've tested this against Jiggs on Battlefield @ around 208%, resetting after every hit.

Oh, and as someone's already pointed out, the VSDJ knockback now works like HA's: it will always send the opponents in the direction that Sonic's facing.

Interesting. I'm sure these are things that could be included in the moveset guide, no?

I unfortunately didn't get to play any Sm4sh yesterday to test for myself, but I definitely want to investigate.
Wait, sorry if I'm dumb, but I actually can't recall if VSDJ and SDJ have different damage outputs or anything like that or not. I feel like they do, but now that I'm typing here I can't say with 100% certainty. Because if we have SDJ and SCJ working differently, that would further make me want to believe that there could be a VSDJ and a VSCJ.

And all was right in the world.

There's no excuse other than the player's shortcomings. Sonic has everything necessary to win.

I wish there was a thumbs up emoticon, but alas, there is none.

After playing with a lot more dedication, I'm finally having better results online.

Not sure what exactly changed in my game (I'm getting good at reading reactions perhaps, and I might be adapting to no C-Stick) but I'm finally winning a lot.

I agree it's not the characters fault. I know I was doing something wrong.. Maybe I still am, although a lot less.
Maybe, and it's ridiculously silly, I was still stuck on Brawl Sonic.
But I'm doing a lot better. I'm going to be asking fellow Sonic mains to spar with me sometime.

Now that's the spirit.

Keep at it.

Also, it's not silly at all to say you're stuck on Brawl Sonic. In fact, I think a lot of people are still playing this game like it's Brawl when there are clear differences. It's a habit I'm having myself sometimes even. I'm trying to force myself to discover new things and grow as well. It's time to start playing Sm4sh, not Brawl.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Interesting. I'm sure these are things that could be included in the moveset guide, no?

I unfortunately didn't get to play any Sm4sh yesterday to test for myself, but I definitely want to investigate.
Wait, sorry if I'm dumb, but I actually can't recall if VSDJ and SDJ have different damage outputs or anything like that or not. I feel like they do, but now that I'm typing here I can't say with 100% certainty. Because if we have SDJ and SCJ working differently, that would further make me want to believe that there could be a VSDJ and a VSCJ.

Yeah, working on it.

The damage outputs for SDJ/SCJ and VSDJ are the same: 6%. It seems that only the knockback is changed.

I have absolutely no idea why they work differently as a "diagonal jump" but the same as a "vertical jump". Must be because some kind of wonky variable from SDR/SCR carries over to SDJ/SCJ, making them act differently. Since VSDJ doesn't need to transition from a roll before starting, it won't have that variable modified by the SDR/SCR.

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, working on it.

mah man

The damage outputs for SDJ/SCJ and VSDJ are the same: 6%. It seems that only the knockback is changed.

I have absolutely no idea why they work differently as a "diagonal jump" but the same as a "vertical jump". Must be because some kind of wonky variable from SDR/SCR carries over to SDJ/SCJ, making them act differently. Since VSDJ doesn't need to transition from a roll before starting, it won't have that variable modified by the SDR/SCR.

The mysteries of Sonic the Hedgehog.