gmBottles
Fun Haver
Sort of a bad example, since Ken is still referred to as the King of Smash
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Who will be the first Melee God to fall?
- Thread starter sadweather
- Start date
Diosama
Stand User
Dude, Hbox just won Dreamhack LOL. He has no reason to quit now. Mang0 is still a great player, but he just loses in really stupid ways (I still have nightmares about what happened at this year's EVO). He's losing focus, but I hope he smartens up soon.
Archelon
Smash Journeyman
He plays no lamer than anyone else, except maybe Mango.
xxdavis97
Smash Rookie
you don't revoke a god's status just as Ken is, and always will be "The king of smash" he's not great anymore but he still is the king of smash
Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
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GuardianTalos
Smash Rookie
The only reason i say hbox might quit is because it just seems like he might get tired of smash. idk, just seems like he would.
gmBottles
Fun Haver
And this is based off of what exactly??
GuardianTalos
Smash Rookie
ShadowKing
Smash Ace
No because even if he was "dethroned" he's still king of smash
Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
How does mango seem like he's making a comeback? Summit?
You know, looking back I'm not sure why I said that. I guess it just feels like it? I have no idea lol
I think the most likely thing is that all of the gods will drop to non-god status but Armada. The only non-top 6 loss Armada has taken in about 5 years is to Silentspectre. He is on another level right now and if he keeps it up I think we'll see what essentially amounts to a 2nd king of smash.
GuardianTalos
Smash Rookie
It's like a legacy thing I guess. Like Mang0 will always be the GOAT.
Kekker
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2015
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- 34
I'm going to side with the majority here and say that M2K will be the first to "fall", and quite honestly think he already has.
I'd be interested in who will take his place. I think Leffen and Westballz will hold the "Smash God" title in the near future, and maybe Plup and Axe. Westballz needs to seriously work on his consistency, he either plays amazing or super sloppy. Leffen is well on his way to God status, but I'd love to see him try another character. I haven't watched very much Plup since he picked up Shiek, and as much as he is good I think just being Samus helped him in a lot of matches. Axe is very technical, but he hasn't picked up a top tier (and I doubt he will) and does have a harder time against the best of the best than smashers like Leffen and even sometimes Westballz.
I'd be interested in who will take his place. I think Leffen and Westballz will hold the "Smash God" title in the near future, and maybe Plup and Axe. Westballz needs to seriously work on his consistency, he either plays amazing or super sloppy. Leffen is well on his way to God status, but I'd love to see him try another character. I haven't watched very much Plup since he picked up Shiek, and as much as he is good I think just being Samus helped him in a lot of matches. Axe is very technical, but he hasn't picked up a top tier (and I doubt he will) and does have a harder time against the best of the best than smashers like Leffen and even sometimes Westballz.
Archelon
Smash Journeyman
You don't think Leffen's there yet?
ShadowKing
Smash Ace
Even if m2k falls hell be still considered a god
Kekker
Smash Cadet
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I'm not sure. He is a superb player, but I just feel it's too soon to call him a god. He's relatively new to the scene, I'd like to see a couple more tournaments and maybe a couple other characters before I give him the title of "Smash God".
Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
Because Hbox is definitely known for having a diverse set of tournament ready characters at his disposal
Archelon
Smash Journeyman
Like Ness
Kekker
Smash Cadet
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He doesn't play other characters competitively, no, but he does have a badass Ness and some have commented he has a solid Fox. I haven't seen nor heard of Leffen playing any characters other than Fox. Also, given that he's the only competitive Puff that I've ever seen, I'm willing to allow him some exclusivity with his characters.
That said, you do have a fair point. HBox is unique.
Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
Watch the guild of stitch face, Leffen went random characters all tournament until he lost in winners finals, then went Falco when he won extremely convincingly. Or watch Heir II where he went secondaries all tourney and still did decently, or some random other thing that he won over Android with Marth. Leffen has a good Falco, Yoshi, Marth, and other characters but there's no reason to use them in a serious tournament because they are worse than his Fox.
On top of that, using multiple characters is completely irrelevant for judging someone's skill.
lordvaati
Smash Master
Mew2King is like everyone's brother that can be annoying sometimes but we all care about....
Which is why it's hard to think about that he will most likely be the first to go, as he has been saying his hands have been reaching their limits over the years. I mean I know not many here give a damn about the game they play but ZeRo owes his entire reason for playing Smash 4 and the like to the guy, as well as many others.
Which is why it's hard to think about that he will most likely be the first to go, as he has been saying his hands have been reaching their limits over the years. I mean I know not many here give a damn about the game they play but ZeRo owes his entire reason for playing Smash 4 and the like to the guy, as well as many others.
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Kekker
Smash Cadet
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Sounds interesting, I'll take a look.
I disagree. Being really good at one character is a show of your skill with that particular character, but being good at characters other than your main shows your skill and understanding of the game as a whole (IMO).
Being good at multiple characters shows that you are good at using multiple characters. Winning shows your understanding of the game as a whole.
Kekker
Smash Cadet
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Again, I disagree. Knowing a character and being good at a character is one thing, understanding matchups and how to win them is another. Mastering different characters shows mastery of the game. This is my opinion, and I'll agree to disagree with those who think I'm "wrong".
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Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
I don't understand how sticking to one character in tournament means you don't understand match ups
Archelon
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, lol, he he probably gets them better.
Kekker
Smash Cadet
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I never said that, but my post was worded badly so I can see why you think I did. Playing a character and knowing matchups are two different things. You can know one without the other. Doesn't mean you can't know matchups AND how to play a character. The vast majority of competitive smashers know matchups for their main, but casuals just know what moves are good and what moves are bad, and maybe a few combos. Using one character does not in any way mean you don't understand matchups.
Understanding many characters and how to play their matchups is a level above knowing just one character and how to play his/her matchups.
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Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
But if I play Falco why should I learn the Falcon Marth match up? It's a complete waste of time and energy that I could invest into refining the character that I actually use so that I get better instead of developing my roster for 26 character iron mans that won't ever happen and wouldn't be important anyway. Seriously, it's 100% useless if I don't use multiple characters in tournament.
Kekker
Smash Cadet
- Joined
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If you think learning another character is useful, I'm not going to bother explaining my point. It's a complete waste of time and energy that I could invest into refining my characters that I use so that I get better instead of arguing about the usefulness of secondaries to someone who won't ever listen and isn't important anyways.
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Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
I will leave it at this. I play Fox and Falco and I have a decent Falcon who I do not use in tourney, my other characters pretty much suck. My closest friend and primary practice partner can play Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Puff, Falcon, Climbers, Samus, Pika, and Doc/Mario. We play together all the time and are pretty much at the exact same skill level, yet I outplace him. Riddle me that
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Kekker
Smash Cadet
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I would, and easily could, but that's a conversation I don't feel like starting at the moment. Not trying to be rude or anything, I'm just busy with other stuff and I've already spent too much time on the forums today.
Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
If you actually want to talk about it I'll edit this with real thoughts later tonight, my last post was mostly joking.
EDIT:
I'll just put my thoughts in a spoiler so they don't clog the thread
The main way I have heard playing other characters is useful is to experience the match up from the other side, or to take things from that character and apply it to your main. However, playing multiple characters is not the only way to do this by any means. To illustrate I'll give a couple examples from my own play. A while ago I was playing a Marth and I realized he was using the platforms way better than me, both in terms of taking advantage of me being on the platforms and using them to move around my attacks and hit me. I realized this while playing him and thought, "I need to be doing this." So, I thought about many things including how I could cut off my opponent's platform movement, how to bait and punish approaches from the platforms, and how to safely come back down when I am stuck on platforms myself. The next time I played I found I was doing much better. I didn't have to play Marth to understand what Marth was doing in those moments, I just had to look at how I was getting hit and why. There was also a time before I learned how to use ground movement, and whereas I could've tried to use a grounded character and implement that into my game I just looked at what my opponents were doing: how they avoid approaches, how they create openings, how they space themselves in general, and so on. Using another character could've also worked well in both those instances, but at the end of the day it is how well I can do with my main that will determine how good I am, meaning my other characters aren't important if I don't need to pick them up to improve.
And let's look at m2k and hbox, two fairly polar examples on number of characters used. Hbox almost only uses Puff, while having a Ness he used like once against a Zelda and spacies he has used sparingly to pretty much no success. Yet, he was ranked 2nd for the year and is inarguably top 3 in the world right now. Now let's look at mew2king. He is known for having tons of good characters and would probably beat anyone in a 26 character iron man. But let's look at where those characters have gotten him this year, specifically his Fox. It's gotten him one janky (single game) victory over Axe at HTC, middling success in a few Fox dittos, getting four stocked by Armada's Peach at TBH5, and a 1-7 record against Hbox. Would you call that a good investment? Would you say that his ability to play Fox shows how good of a player he is? Because I would argue the exact opposite, because his Fox has done pretty poorly this year and honestly he probably would've been better off sticking to his Marth and Sheik. Mango has also recently stated being a dual main harms him. Anyway the point of looking at these players was to show that playing different characters doesn't necessarily make you better and can actually be quite detrimental.
And say you can play all the top 8 characters at a pretty solid level and I only play Fox, but I beat you every time. Does that make you a better player because you have a diverse knowledge base even though you always lose to someone who is more focused? Not really. You can play all the characters you want and that's cool, but if that doesn't help you win tournaments and beat good players then you are not a better player than people who do so with only one character.
And let's look at m2k and hbox, two fairly polar examples on number of characters used. Hbox almost only uses Puff, while having a Ness he used like once against a Zelda and spacies he has used sparingly to pretty much no success. Yet, he was ranked 2nd for the year and is inarguably top 3 in the world right now. Now let's look at mew2king. He is known for having tons of good characters and would probably beat anyone in a 26 character iron man. But let's look at where those characters have gotten him this year, specifically his Fox. It's gotten him one janky (single game) victory over Axe at HTC, middling success in a few Fox dittos, getting four stocked by Armada's Peach at TBH5, and a 1-7 record against Hbox. Would you call that a good investment? Would you say that his ability to play Fox shows how good of a player he is? Because I would argue the exact opposite, because his Fox has done pretty poorly this year and honestly he probably would've been better off sticking to his Marth and Sheik. Mango has also recently stated being a dual main harms him. Anyway the point of looking at these players was to show that playing different characters doesn't necessarily make you better and can actually be quite detrimental.
And say you can play all the top 8 characters at a pretty solid level and I only play Fox, but I beat you every time. Does that make you a better player because you have a diverse knowledge base even though you always lose to someone who is more focused? Not really. You can play all the characters you want and that's cool, but if that doesn't help you win tournaments and beat good players then you are not a better player than people who do so with only one character.
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Kekker
Smash Cadet
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Eh, I'd rather just respect your opinion, and you respect mine. It's a bit easier that way. I don't think there's many facts to this argument, just different interpretations of different observations.
Dolla Pills
Smash Ace
Well I ended up editing the post anyway, you can check it out if you want to
Kekker
Smash Cadet
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I went ahead and read it. I definitely see your point, but I'm going to stand by my opinion.
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TheJolteon
Smash Apprentice
I think Mango will be the first to fall because he stated himself he only has 1 or 2 good years left in him. Mew2king is off and on. He was getting decimated early in 2015 but then he made a big comeback later because of the 6-0 on Leffen and getting 2nd at Paragon over Hungrybox. Armada doesn't show signs of stopping. Don't know about PPMD. And Hungrybox doesn't show signs of stopping either. And the cherry on top is that this was the year where H-Box beat Mango.