Who should be nerfed/strengthened and how?

[smash_fo_life]

that is cool

 

[Kirby M.D.]

I'll make a start on "unbreaking" the game.

Captain Falcon: Need to make the Falcon punch what it was in SSB64, minus the
over the top damage and knockback.

Agreed. The Falcon Kick could be sped up a tad also

Sheik: Remove the chain grab by allowing large DI when reacting from
low-knockback throws. Like Marth, Shiek and Ice climbers.
Sheik: That godly fair must be killed.
Maybe not killed, just nerf knockback and maybe increase the trajectory angle. Therefore, it becomes less of a "you're dead lol" move and more of a volleyball spike attack
Sheik: The dair, nair, bair, and uair need to be "adjusted".
Shiek: The ftilt and utilt also need to be "adjusted".
Sheik: The usmash and dsmash also need to be "adjusted".
By "adjusted", I mean reduce the damage, increase the knockback (sans ftilt),
and make the hitboxes smaller.

Pikachu: B attack is completely pointless. Needs to do at least 10%.
Pikachu: Forward B needs to be a bit more like Pichu's, but not as powerful.
Pikachu: That bair needs usefulness like in SSB64.
Pikachu: The upb needs to do perhaps 3%.

Marth: Keep his deadly air game, that takes practise to get right.
Marth: Smash B: The 3rd hit needs less knockback and more stun if the 4th is the most powerful.
Marth: Wtf is up with that mad ranged f-smash? Needs less range and smaller hitbox.
Marth: F-Smash knockback at tip needs to be reudced.
Marth: F-Smash swing needs to be a tad slower though. Not TOO much slower.
Marth: Recovery is fine as is, but could do with some ending lag.

Jigglypuff: Needs to be heavier.
Jigglypuff: Would help if it were faster.
Pichu: Should be heavier than Jigglypuff. Even if he's a baby mouse, that's no reason
for him to be lighter than a ballon for ****'s sake.
Wholly agreed on Pichu, not so much Jiggs. She is a balloon Pokemon after all.

Bowser: Super armour: Suffer no stun or knockback at low %, only at higher %.
Like being metal. No real damage changes necesarry, this guy is EVIL.
Arguably, the same could be done for DK and Ganondorf.
Bowser: Needs an airdodge like everyone else.
Bowser: DSmash has more range

DK: The fair needs to be EXACTLY in between the way it was in SSB64 and
in Melee. It had almost no startup lag in SSB64, but became virtually unusable
due to an hour of startup lag. You could jump, and land before the attack executed.

Yoshi: Hover in place or move slightly when doing egg throw in the air.
Yoshi: Needs to have a better air dodge.
Yoshi: The fair needs the same treatment as DK's.
Yoshi: Have out of shield jump/wavedash
Yoshi: The dair should do an amount of damage that is in between what it did in SSB64
and what it did in melee.

Kirby: The stone needs less ending lag.
Agreed. The O SHI- portion could use a bit less lag also. A little more power/speed wouldn't hurt.
Kirby: That horribly useless uair needs to be replaced. It gets out-prioritorised
even WITH it's awful range.
Hmm, the Uair seems alright range wise. The Nair is somewhat useless though.
Kirby: Fix all those odd sweet spots.
Kirby: Needs less suicidal tendencies, e.g. the backthrow, the uthrow and that swallow.
I can't agree with you here. Kirbicides are an important and fun part of his game. The wiggle out of the fthrow needs to be 86'd though if it's still going to be Kirbicidal
Enemies need to not sink down so much when escaping the mouth.
The mouth also needs to be harder to escape, cos it's fun messing around in there.
Kirby needs that slide attack from his games.
Kirby's attacks need to be a teeny tiny bit weaker than they were in SSB64.
Not completely destroyed, like in Melee.
Kirby: Additional Stun and Damage to Aerial Hammer
Agreed. I was thinking that the Hammer should be like a less broken air Pound, with the enemy getting taken in the direction of the spinning hammer.
Kirby: Stone shield breaks (maybe like Pound), can be picked up when he is stationary and thrown, when you dash and input Bdown he does a dash attack(stone rolling move) similar to the current Melee one.
Kirby: Ground Hammer does heavy damage to Shield, OR is slightly faster.

Also, liking that "friend for Kirby" idea.

Ness: Needs the upB the way it was in SSB64.
Ness: The yo-yo glitch = gone.
Ness: Needs his yoyo from SSB64. That was nerfed into oblivion.
Ness: Lethal dash A needs to make a triumphant return from Melee.

Mewtwo: More like he was in the animé: Powerful.
Mewtwo: The charge ball is easy to dodge, weak, and takes time to charge.
Mewtwo: Needs a dair with a bigger hitbox.
Mewtwo: Needs to be heavier. He's actually pretty big.
Mewtwo: Trying to copy shiek's godly fair were you? Didn't work, did it.
Mewtwo: Needs more useful neutral a attacks, Usmash and Dsmash.
Mewtwo: SideB changes so that the reflected object becomes a shield for mewtwo (think like mario kart 64 where the triple shells rotate around him) Side b could also be
used to fire the item.
Mewtwo: Side B needs less startup lag to be useful if this is it's effect.
Another item can be picked up if an item is already surrounding Mewtwo from the side B.

DK: BDown has more range and can be cancelled faster for aerial juggles.
DK: Headbutt(BSide) should come out A LITTLE faster.

If anything, Mewtwo SHOULD be god-like.

Fox: The shine shouldn't jump/fall cancel.
Fox: The shine needs at least 2 extra frames of ending lag.
Fox: Make the Fsmash and Usmash less abusable by reducing
damage on the fsmash, and knockback on the Usmash.

Mario: Keep his moves, range and speed, but with Dr. Mario's power and knockback.
Agreed. Fuse the two trajectories of the his fireballs and Doc's pills
Mario's cape is more useful for recovery than Dr's

Peach: Killer 50% Dsmash must go.
Dear GOD yes.
Peach: HUT-CHAA must be de-prioritorised.
Hmm, the Arse Bomber doesn't seem to have that much priority to me. I was thinking a slightly shorter startup
Peach: Nair's knockback reduced.
Zelda: Nair more Knock Back and range.
Zelda: Din's Fire explosion does more damage and spikes =D
Delicious
Zelda: U Air stronger, and buff the Dair
Peach, Zelda and Bowser need a better air-dodge.

Luigi: Fireball becomes stronger
Luigi: have a fully charged missle have a similar affect to Miss Fire.

Link: Bow's start up faster.
Link: Allow 3 angle aiming of the bow.

Samus: Needs a more useful UpSmash, and similarly improved fair,
like they were in SSB64, only not THAT powerful.
Samus: Decrease knockback and increase damage from the Fsmash.

Ganondorf: Warlock Punch should be made more like Falcon Punch 64, but stronger.
There, now Ganondorf has at least ONE advantage besides strength over Captain Falcon.
Ganondorf: Make his utilt different, so it can be used in competitive play.

Falcon Punch and Warlock Punch should be cancelable by doing another attack.

I think I have it all covered.

I like the way you think man.

 

[Tyrannotaur]

I'll make a start on "unbreaking" the game.


Jigglypuff: Needs to be heavier.
Jigglypuff: Would help if it were faster.
Pichu: Should be heavier than Jigglypuff. Even if he's a baby mouse, that's no reason
for him to be lighter than a ballon for ****'s sake.

If anything, Mewtwo SHOULD be god-like.

I think I have it all covered.

I looked in my Pokédex... Jigglypuff weighs 12.1 lbs. Pichu weighs 4.4lbs. So I guess thats why Pichu is lighter than Jiggs in SSBM.

I agree with you about Mewtwo. He is supposed to be the most powerful of all Pokémon, genetically engineered to be powerful. But instead he gets beaten by Pikachu... I know they didn't want to make him too strong but still he could be stronger..or at least not have so much lag. Plus his downsmash needs to cover both sides of him. Maybe he could do it with both arms or something. Also Mewtwo Weighs 269 lbs. He should be harder to knock around. I know he levitates off the ground but still..

 

[LinkGadra]

No nerfs, only buffs.

Good characters stay good, bad characters get better. If Sakurai and pals can pull a Gulity Gear on Brawl, I'll be happy. I'd go into more detail, but I'm saving energy right now.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Speaking of ice climbers they should be strengthen themselves.

 

[Team Giza]

Remove Ice Climbers wobbling. Down smash and forward smash do less damage. Aerials have more priority and a bit better range. Tilts give a bit more shield stun and have slightly less lag. Forward throws allow you to chain throw floaty characters. Nana shields against (and crouches under when possible) projectiles.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Bowser Faster??!!??!! You Must Be Crazy!!

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Remove Ice Climbers wobbling. Down smash and forward smash do less damage. Aerials have more priority and a bit better range. Tilts give a bit more shield stun and have slightly less lag. Forward throws allow you to chain throw floaty characters. Nana shields against (and crouches under when possible) projectiles.

We should be striving to REMOVE chain grabs!

 

[Team Giza]

We should be striving to REMOVE chain grabs!

ummm.... why?

 

[greenblob]

I don't think chain grabs or other combos of any sort should be removed. However, long combos and zero-to-death combos should require tons of DI reading. I say if you can read your opponent's DI that well, you deserve the kill.

 

[Afro Boy2000]

Fox:
Nerfs: His up Smash needs to have less knock back, Shine needs to start at like 3 frames, u-air needs less knock back.

improvements: Up-b needs to start quicker, f-air needs to be like b-air, needs to fall slower, u-p needs more priority.

Falco
Nerfs: D-air needs to be a meteor, D-air needs to have less priority, down-b needs to start at 3 frames, needs a faster dash.

improvements: Faster starting up-b, more priority on u-b, longer up-b, needs to fall slower, more powerful up-smash (just enough so it can acctually kill), f-air needs to be like b-air.

Sheik
Nerfs: Chain throw needs to go away, f-air needs to be slower and have a higher knock back angle (kinda like Peaches), les comboable tilts, needles need much less priority.

improvements: F-smash needs to be one hit and more powerful, down air atleast needs a
powerful sweetspot (its f***ing worthless).

Marth
Nerfs: Needs to reduce release speed of f-smash, f-smash needs less knock back, 0 to death combos need to go away (f-air to spike stuff isn't cool).

improvements: Slightly bigger sweetspot on moves, 3rd hit of dancing blade needs to stun so the fourth hit connects, Spike needs less ending lag.

Peach
Nerfs: D-smash needs less damage, d-smash needs to loose the cheap "suck in" ability, no floating, lose the cheap KO turnip.

improvements: Make f-air come out faster, have Peaches f-smash be just one attack (rather than three random ones) with actual power.

C.Falcon
Nerfs: Make the knee have less power, make his first jump be reduced in distance (Falcon can follow almost any DI).

improvements: Up-b needs to have more a bigger hit box (for ledge sweetspoting), needs to land slower, Smashes need to be faster (so they can have a role in KOing).

Ice Climbers
Nerfs: Make their infinite chain grab go away, less power on smashes.

improvements: Need a faster dash.

Samus
Fine the way she is...

Jiggs
Nerfs: Rest needs much less knock back, less airiel priority.

improvements: More knock back on up-smash, less ending lag on d-smash, needs to wake up sooner when using rest, rest needs a bit less timing to sweetspo

Dr.Mario
betting he won't stay for brawl

Mario
Nerfs: Nothing

improvements: F-smash needs no sweetspot, needs Dr.Mario's d-smash, needs a threatning move (like the shines or the knee).

Luigi
Nerfs: Lose some knock back on d-air, fall faster.

improvements: Make his up-b have angling, faster dash, more width when jumping.

Link
Nerfs: Spin attack needs to send people higher.

improvements: F-smash be one hit, F-smash have less ending lag.

 

[Aminar]

How about a set of rules.

No chain throws or infinite grabs.

No Waveshineing.

No spikes, only meteors.

No hits that send people diagonally downward(w/out DI) from the stage below 50-60%.

Make recovery's harder to edgeguard.

That unbreaks the top tier, and from their you move the rest of the cast up in abilities to match. Peaches downsmash isn't so bad if you don't CC it, and that means you have to play smart. Marth's tipper is hard to hit a decent player with, and his only kill move once his spike is gone.
Fox's Upsmash can be fixed by fixing the falling physics, making it much harder to die off the top of the screen.

I like the speed power priority range thing. Everybody should have one attack like this though personally(it's call bacon)

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

i think sheik needs to be strengthened...she dies to fox too easy

 

[ender]

no sheik needs to definitely be nerfed because her needles are rly good plus she can do SWATSWATSWAT!

also they cazn make fox have havier because sometimes I loose because its hard to di.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

wtf no.....sheik's needles arent that good and fox is way overpowered....just look at his upB it goes so far and its practically invincible

 

[ender]

DUDE shut up. one time i was playing in melee stock mode and my friend did needle to foxes recovery,(his up+B) and i died because i thought i was gonna go back to the stage so then i just fell. see this can happen at any time this is why needels are no good.

see my point is foxes up b ISNT good and sheiks needles ARE REALY GOOD.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i think they should make bowser BIGGER because bigger is better

oh wait, they did that. nvm, nintendo's got my back.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

no way...all fox has to do is reflect the needles and they are useless....its not really that hard....meanwhile fox has that killed flip kick that hits them upwards

sheik DOES have that chain attack thing....but im pretty sure that's reflectable by fox's downB too

 

[ender]

no way...all fox has to do is reflect the needles and they are useless....its not really that hard....meanwhile fox has that killed flip kick that hits them upwards

sheik DOES have that chain attack thing....but im pretty sure that's reflectable by fox's downB too

uh,,,foxs down+b is only good when i used it against my friend who throughs the pokeballs at me or freizes and then it shoots back to him. unless u are talking about that move shind blind well i tried to but cant its really hard for fox to shind blind, i bet not even u could do it if shiek had that move! fox takes waaayyy more skills than sheik to play cuz you have to modve QUICKER than the opponent or else they can just do ez combos to you.

also bowser sucks and when bigger will sucks bigger lol.

 

[CHUK]

No nerfs, only buffs.

Good characters stay good, bad characters get better. If Sakurai and pals can pull a Gulity Gear on Brawl, I'll be happy. I'd go into more detail, but I'm saving energy right now.

Agreed. (10 characters)

 

[Xaron Fisk]

Just weaken (refuse to use the term "nerf") the ******* quartet. Fox, Falco, Marth, Shiek. Don't care what they do to them, just make them worse than everyone else. Fox is very due for his comeuppance...

 

[RAQU]

Everyone should be balanced, but we know that won't happen.

Peach needs a powerful move, a KO move. I think her Dair should be a spike. She doesn't have one move that kills at low percentages. That's just not cool.

her Nair is friggin ******** it kills just fine and is easy to land

 

[RAQU]

how i think the game could be un-broken

i personally dont think speed and power are the only ways to balance a game. i think what smash needs are more "unique" balancing ideas.

such as what they have done already which i feel will help a great deal, the no hit stun while doing certain attacks.

also no nerfing should be done(even tho the shine pisses me off to no end)

only those in mid tier and lower should be buffed.

i think they seemed to have addressed some of links flaws. his f tilt seems quicker. Fsmash's first swing seems to be swung more vetically and the second sends them flying horizantally. (no longer making him rely on the up b and Dair for actual KO's where as most of his kills without those 2 moves are falls)they gave his boomerang different abilities.and a chargable up b potentially making it a very very very deadly attack now.

now for my own ideas

link: he needs less shield stun from weak attacks like jabs and those not so powerful arials like marths Fair. his grab needs at least one of these improvements.
1. comes out faster.
2. longer reach, yes longer i kno its reach is good but that doesnt matter when your opponent can just dash out of the way. marth fox and shiek have done this countless times to me and they were right in front of me when i started the grab.
3. grab a jumping opponent (i dont mean aim upwards or anything, just that if they are a centimeter off the ground in front of your grab. it should grab em. cuz its just dumb how it goes through them when all other chars can grab an opponent out of the air)

Bowser: more vertical recovery on the up b (not a lot) more priority on the ground. side be should eat away at shields, like marths neutral b, if it doesnt land the grab. make his down b grab and slam an opponent down on the ground if done poiynt blank (mid air too). almost no stun from jabs and other attacks that do 6% or lower. when grabbed he should be able to get out very fast or be able to counter the grab of an opponent if he breaks free in time. such as an automatically landed grab of his own(it should alse be harder tobreak free from his grab). and a slight boost in his f smashs reach or make it have no hit stun from attacks that do under 15%. different Dtilt needs much more stun but should have a vertical trajectory and only be a single swing.

Kirby: nair needs to act like samus' up b so that way it sucks em in and scores mutli hits and has knockback. a fair that does one hit instead of that useless triple kick that rarely works. hammer needs higher power and knockback or needs to come out much faster and mid-air it should hit once and knock the opponent away. u throw and D thrown need less lag afterwards for combo potential reasons.needs about 3-4 more air jumps if he doesnt get anything like puffs pound. up b needs to spike much harder like it did in the first smash.

Roy(even tho i dun think hes gonna return,i hope ike will be similar what im about to write or better):get rid of his gimpy lame ol tipper that sounds like a roll of news paper swatting someone .he should only have the close range power hit and the mid range one with normal attack properties like links sword. i think that alone whould make him far better and he needs more vertical recovery with his up b. perhaps better or = to marths cuz he needs somethin better than marth =P. his counter should have more active frames like marth. he needs a useful up smash he lacks arial defenses.

Mewtwo:more reach with his Fair. Dair needs to hit the opponent at a higher velocity. scrap his current side b.its useless unless youre glitching XD.recovery should pass through walls such as go through the floor of BF when trying to recover. his down be needs to have more range or a longer stun time. all of his smashes need more knock back.

G&W: better graphics (XD) WHERES THE DETAIL!? <----- sarcasm
i just think he needs a diff down b and his up smash needs no flich boxes on his headmore knock back with his Fair and Fsmash. a roll with less lag (i really dont kno what else cuz i almost never use him)

more on this later

 

[Freedoves]

Empowerments:

Jigglypuff - God Tier

 

[GoldenS1104]

nerfed-no one

strengthened-everyone

That made me laugh so hard milk came out my nose. And I haven't had milk in over a week.

link: he needs less shield stun from weak attacks like jabs and those not so powerful arials like marths Fair. his grab needs at least one of these improvements.
1. comes out faster.
2. longer reach, yes longer i kno its reach is good but that doesnt matter when your opponent can just dash out of the way. marth fox and shiek have done this countless times to me and they were right in front of me when i started the grab.
3. grab a jumping opponent (i dont mean aim upwards or anything, just that if they are a centimeter off the ground in front of your grab. it should grab em. cuz its just dumb how it goes through them when all other chars can grab an opponent out of the air)

As some one who mains Link, I couldn't agree with you more. The consequences for missing a grab are grave since his recovery time is really long. That wouldn't be such a huge disadvantage if it wasn't so easy to avoid. Your three solutions would definitely make up for the fact that missing his grab leaves you wide out in the open. I especially agree with #3. I can't tell you how many times I've missed grabbing some one who was short hopping despite the fact that they were exactly were the tip of my hookshot was. If anything, it would be a practical update cause in real life that should grab them, but it doesn't.

 

[red stone]

i know some good enhancements

let mario be able to jump cancel his cape. make the fireballs faster and have a better trajectory

give sheik better smash moves to ko with. oh and let her shffl better. oh and extend her recovery a tad.

get kirby way better aerials with more knockback or combo ablity

let bowser have way faster moves and be able to combo much better. give him a better means of recovery

give marth a better downsmash

 

[Team Giza]

i think sheik needs to be strengthened...she dies to fox too easy

Sheik already ***** the majority of Melee's cast. She needs to be nerfed a bit. Fox just needs a even larger nerfing.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Screw everyone, Fox should stop taking damage when he attacks.
Shiek's upB needs to have the same strength as fox's usmash.

Marth's sword needs to be at least 1.5 times longer. Oh wait, that's Ike.

 

[LinkGadra]

...
Peach
Nerfs: D-smash needs less damage, d-smash needs to loose the cheap "suck in" ability, no floating, lose the cheap KO turnip.
...

Are you crazy? The floating is what makes Peach Peach! Getting rid of it practically makes her unplayable! And the stitchface isn't that bad! It's rarely even seen, and when it shows up, it's as easy to dodge as any other turnip!

Sorry for that, but I really can't take you seriously after that. What were you thinking when you said that?