We have those very popular threads like Confirmed Character Discussion and Who Is Going To Return. But I searched for a thread that talked about Who Isn't Going To return and found zip. So I'm opening a discussion on which characters will not or probably will not make it into Brawl. My goal here is for this topic to get at least 1000 posts in any way possible except double posting.
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Who Isn't Going to Return
- Thread starter Bombco101
- Start date
Pit 42
Smash Lord
Umm...Ok...thanks for sharing your personal goals...
Anyway, I don't think Pichu or the Ice Climbers should return. Pichu is kind of annoying, and the Ice Climbers are not very good at all.
Anyway, I don't think Pichu or the Ice Climbers should return. Pichu is kind of annoying, and the Ice Climbers are not very good at all.
Diddy Kong
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For goodness sake... The Ice Climbers ARE very good! Not that that should mather, since Melee preformance shouldn't affect if a character should return or not. If they'd had those sorta rules for Melee, we probarly wouldn't have seen DK, Link or even Jigglypuff in Melee. Now Jigglypuff is considered as a rather good character in competive play, so you don't hear complains about her.
The Ice Climbers are probarly the most unique characters in SSB, so I see no reason for them NOT to return. They are adding new retro characters as Pit, so why would they cut other retros? Also Sakurai LOVES the Ice Climbers... So there's a HUGE change they'll return.
I'd much rather have clone characters cut, mostly Dr.Mario. Dr.Mario, added to the Melee roster only to have an excuse to use his music should be the character who first should be kicked out the roster. Now I hear all of you Doc lovers scream: "BUT Y!??11?? DOC IS TEH KEWLZORZ!!!1111" Then again, that's only Melee performance... Characters are gonna change... Doc WOULD change to if he where in Brawl, which I honestly doubt. And it's not that bad for you guys, since Doc and Mario aren't THAT diffrent.
The only original characters I think have huge posibilities of getting cut are Sheik and Mr.Game&Watch. Sheik because she's not in Twilight Princess, the Zelda game where the Zelda characters are most likely gonna be based of... Also because Zamus moves alot like her. GAW because well... I think another character deserves the "WTF character" slot.
The Ice Climbers are probarly the most unique characters in SSB, so I see no reason for them NOT to return. They are adding new retro characters as Pit, so why would they cut other retros? Also Sakurai LOVES the Ice Climbers... So there's a HUGE change they'll return.
I'd much rather have clone characters cut, mostly Dr.Mario. Dr.Mario, added to the Melee roster only to have an excuse to use his music should be the character who first should be kicked out the roster. Now I hear all of you Doc lovers scream: "BUT Y!??11?? DOC IS TEH KEWLZORZ!!!1111" Then again, that's only Melee performance... Characters are gonna change... Doc WOULD change to if he where in Brawl, which I honestly doubt. And it's not that bad for you guys, since Doc and Mario aren't THAT diffrent.
The only original characters I think have huge posibilities of getting cut are Sheik and Mr.Game&Watch. Sheik because she's not in Twilight Princess, the Zelda game where the Zelda characters are most likely gonna be based of... Also because Zamus moves alot like her. GAW because well... I think another character deserves the "WTF character" slot.
Diddy Kong
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Double post, delete this please. (**** quick reply... -_-)
I hope Doctor Mario doesnt return. To me, he's pretty redundant considering we already have a MARIO in the game. If anything, there should be a doctor Luigi! (j/k)
Seriously though, I think one mario and one Luigi is good enough. I also think 1 pikachu is good enough too. Theres not much need for Pichu imo.
Seriously though, I think one mario and one Luigi is good enough. I also think 1 pikachu is good enough too. Theres not much need for Pichu imo.
MetalLuigi1209
Smash Ace
I think Pichu, Mewtwo, and Dr. Mario may leave. There should only be 2 pokemon in a game, and like eazail said, Mario and Luigi is all we need.
Young Link may go, but only if they have the WolfLink Combo. (Wolf Link and Midna) Then there would be 3 Links, and 5 people from Zelda altogether (6 if you count Sheik).
Young Link may go, but only if they have the WolfLink Combo. (Wolf Link and Midna) Then there would be 3 Links, and 5 people from Zelda altogether (6 if you count Sheik).
marthsword
Smash Ace
Doc - It's been said many times before, he's a lot like mario, so make him an alt costume.
G&W - I just pwned my friend using g&w, and I realize I really like his moveset. His aerial is godly, don't forget that, but I truly do believe, as Diddy Kong said that we need a different character to fill the "wtf" slot.
Pichu - Pichu is my favorite character to play, He has a ton of potential, be watching Chu Dat's Pichu. Really though, it's best if he left.
Ness - Ness I would remove, but if you gave him pk rockin, or SSB64-ified him, all would be good.
ICs- Diddy Kong summed this up. Keep IC's! They are the most unique characters.
Roy - I despise roy. AXE~~!
G&W - I just pwned my friend using g&w, and I realize I really like his moveset. His aerial is godly, don't forget that, but I truly do believe, as Diddy Kong said that we need a different character to fill the "wtf" slot.
Pichu - Pichu is my favorite character to play, He has a ton of potential, be watching Chu Dat's Pichu. Really though, it's best if he left.
Ness - Ness I would remove, but if you gave him pk rockin, or SSB64-ified him, all would be good.
ICs- Diddy Kong summed this up. Keep IC's! They are the most unique characters.
Roy - I despise roy. AXE~~!
Doc. Probably isn't going to make it. Unless he gets an alternate moveset like they did luigi................................................................................................................................................................................................And eazail, if you didn't notice, your sig doesn't fit.
D3monicWolv3s
Smash Ace
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Doc. mario- He was not a big enough change.
Pichu- I like him, but I would rather have different characters
Roy- I like him and use him alot, but I think he has a high chance of leaving.
Pichu- I like him, but I would rather have different characters
Roy- I like him and use him alot, but I think he has a high chance of leaving.
Destruction_King
Smash Ace
Dr. Mario, Y. Link, and Pichu. We don't need two forms of one character taking up space on the select screen. Roy also has a pretty good shot of going.
@Bombco101. Not true. Marth was the most requested character to be in Melee in Japan when a poll was taken there in 2000. I doubt they'll kick him out of Brawl.
@Bombco101. Not true. Marth was the most requested character to be in Melee in Japan when a poll was taken there in 2000. I doubt they'll kick him out of Brawl.
Pit 42
Smash Lord
I also don't see why Marth should return. We have had none of his games stateside, and we barely even know who the guy acctually is (OK, so we know some things about him by looking at his Melee trophy but to me that's not enough). I think Marth has a good chance of not returning.
Pit 42
Smash Lord
And of course, the same goes for Roy. Why should we get characters we don't even know about?
Of course, if Japan doesn't want Marth to leave, we could have seperate versions of Brawl, which to me seems unlikely. Maybe we will just have to comply with Japan's ultimate rule over our video games...
I guess I'm contradicting myself. To sum it all up, though, I really don't think Marth or Roy should be in Brawl.
Of course, if Japan doesn't want Marth to leave, we could have seperate versions of Brawl, which to me seems unlikely. Maybe we will just have to comply with Japan's ultimate rule over our video games...
I guess I'm contradicting myself. To sum it all up, though, I really don't think Marth or Roy should be in Brawl.
HyperKirby123
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I just don't see why JigglyPuff should stay, she's kind of useful but toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo light. Anyway, Pichu should never stay, everybody says she stinks. I also think the Fire Emblem won't make it to SSBB.
HyperKirby123
Smash Rookie
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Sorry, my mistake, Pichu is a he.
HyperKirby123
Smash Rookie
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Ditto? Um, maybe fdijkghfsjdkgjdsugfjndikjdsafjsfljdslf;kdaj. Oh well, I messed up.
Volrec
Smash Lord
I dont think Falco will return, due to Fox's improvement.
Nothing says flaming nintendo wont work;..
"FALCO 4 BRAWL LOLE"
Nothing says flaming nintendo wont work;..
"FALCO 4 BRAWL LOLE"
It was supposed to be for the last post, don't make a fool of yourself.
marthsword
Smash Ace
Falco must return. I really don't consider falco a clone of fox, they are completely different.
Pit 42
Smash Lord
I agree, if Falco would get a new moveset, then he should stay.
OysterMeister
Smash Journeyman
Fire Emblem is obviously going to make it back in Brawl, I mean, the Fire Emblem STAGE is in there. And I seriously doubt that the classic Fire Emblem games aren't going to appear on the virtual consol, so if you really wanted to, Im sure, eventualy, that knowing who Marth is will just come down to a matter of having enough wii points.
And Roy... well, I'll admit he doesn't have much reason to stay, but the same could be said of nearly all Fire Emblem lords. At least Roy's got his fire going, which is a whole lot more than some other lords. And he also has the one huge advantage of already being a Smash Bros character. I think his biggest flaw is that he's a middle tier clone of a top tier character, but that won't carry over to Brawl.
As for pokemon: Mewtwo and Jigglypuff stay. Both have significance and recognition in the series. Pichu is on shakier ground, not because of his bad moveset (remember: melee performance has no bearing on Brawl eligability) but because of his redundancy. I'd say cut him, but he's just so cute....
Ice Climbers and Game&Watch also stay, because they're so awesomly unique.
Sheik also stays. I don't buy into the whole she'll-be-replaced-by-Zamus theory. True, she wasn't in Twilight Princess, but she's popular, recognisable, and has a serious fan base. I'd be surprised if Sakurai decided to anger that many fans.
Young Link.... it depends on what they do with him. As he is, he needs to go, but he could be given new purpose, too. Personaly, I think that if he was changed to represent the new, cartoony link from minish cap and phantom hourglass (and, yes, wind waker too), then he should stay.
The only character I'm really sure about leaving (only 75% sure about Pichu) is Dr. Mario. True, he's better than Mario, but none of that is relevent to Brawl, where all characters will be tweaked and clones will be given new movesets. I say axe Doc because he's redundant, and unecessary, and because if SOMEBODY has to go (and according to Sakurai, somebody does) then it should be the least important character. His music can be used without him, anyway.
And Roy... well, I'll admit he doesn't have much reason to stay, but the same could be said of nearly all Fire Emblem lords. At least Roy's got his fire going, which is a whole lot more than some other lords. And he also has the one huge advantage of already being a Smash Bros character. I think his biggest flaw is that he's a middle tier clone of a top tier character, but that won't carry over to Brawl.
As for pokemon: Mewtwo and Jigglypuff stay. Both have significance and recognition in the series. Pichu is on shakier ground, not because of his bad moveset (remember: melee performance has no bearing on Brawl eligability) but because of his redundancy. I'd say cut him, but he's just so cute....
Ice Climbers and Game&Watch also stay, because they're so awesomly unique.
Sheik also stays. I don't buy into the whole she'll-be-replaced-by-Zamus theory. True, she wasn't in Twilight Princess, but she's popular, recognisable, and has a serious fan base. I'd be surprised if Sakurai decided to anger that many fans.
Young Link.... it depends on what they do with him. As he is, he needs to go, but he could be given new purpose, too. Personaly, I think that if he was changed to represent the new, cartoony link from minish cap and phantom hourglass (and, yes, wind waker too), then he should stay.
The only character I'm really sure about leaving (only 75% sure about Pichu) is Dr. Mario. True, he's better than Mario, but none of that is relevent to Brawl, where all characters will be tweaked and clones will be given new movesets. I say axe Doc because he's redundant, and unecessary, and because if SOMEBODY has to go (and according to Sakurai, somebody does) then it should be the least important character. His music can be used without him, anyway.
tstumo
Smash Journeyman
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well said. i hate when people say mewtwo and IC's should get cut. i dont think mr game and watch should get cut. again another unique character and he represents the 2d flat handheld era of nintendo. i dont like him much but he's a classic. shiek i dont know. it wouldnt make sense if Zelda tranforms into shiek anymore. not because Zsamus is in it but if they are sporting their TP look like Link has.then it's unlikely. and i dont think they are going to give shiek an individual character slot.
T-major
Smash Champion
Dr. Mario and Pichu are the only characters that deserve to go. people say Roy should leave, but I say different. Roy's Game (Fire Emblem 6) signifies the revival of the FE franchise. FE was considered a dead series since FE5, but when FE6 came out it renewed the franchise. which is pretty important if you ask me! Roy stays!... also, he can't be a clone. simply because his sword is compleatly different from anyone elses (two handed sword)
Paranoid_Android
Smash Lord
Pichu, Dr. Mario, Young Link and Roy get the giant boot. The rest can stay (with some uncloning of course. If I don't see Gannon with a giant sword in the next Smash, Sakurai's getting it).
greenblob
Smash Lord
Clones:
Brawl should have 3 FE characters--one representing each of the weapon types: sword, lance, and axe. If this is followed and Marth stays, Roy should get cut.
Pichu...he's fun to play (not just as a "I'm going to give myself a handicap" character, but in general) but I don't really see him coming back. There are enough moves to give him a completely different moveset, but there still really isn't any point of keeping him. They should just give Pikachu his speed/jump/size/power without transferring the self-infliction damage and weight.
Doc: Similar to Pichu--merge him with Mario (looks like they already did that with the fair).
Falco: Completely different moveset please--maybe except for lasers (but those should be nerfed), fair, fsmash, and utilt and give Fox his 64 fair, fsmash, and utilt.
Ganon: different moveset. I think everyone agrees.
Young Link: Link has so many incarnations and moves that you could probably have 3 versions of Link in Brawl and not have any of them be clones. But I like the idea of having 3 characters representing Zelda--one for each triforce. Those would of course be Link, Zelda, and Ganon.
Other characters:
People have always mentioned Jiggs, Ness, Climbers, and G&W in these types of threads. None of them should leave. They're all unique and represent Nintendo's history. And Nintendo knows that EB has a cult status.
So Roy, Pichu, Doc, and Young Link should be cut and everyone else stays...
Brawl should have 3 FE characters--one representing each of the weapon types: sword, lance, and axe. If this is followed and Marth stays, Roy should get cut.
Pichu...he's fun to play (not just as a "I'm going to give myself a handicap" character, but in general) but I don't really see him coming back. There are enough moves to give him a completely different moveset, but there still really isn't any point of keeping him. They should just give Pikachu his speed/jump/size/power without transferring the self-infliction damage and weight.
Doc: Similar to Pichu--merge him with Mario (looks like they already did that with the fair).
Falco: Completely different moveset please--maybe except for lasers (but those should be nerfed), fair, fsmash, and utilt and give Fox his 64 fair, fsmash, and utilt.
Ganon: different moveset. I think everyone agrees.
Young Link: Link has so many incarnations and moves that you could probably have 3 versions of Link in Brawl and not have any of them be clones. But I like the idea of having 3 characters representing Zelda--one for each triforce. Those would of course be Link, Zelda, and Ganon.
Other characters:
People have always mentioned Jiggs, Ness, Climbers, and G&W in these types of threads. None of them should leave. They're all unique and represent Nintendo's history. And Nintendo knows that EB has a cult status.
So Roy, Pichu, Doc, and Young Link should be cut and everyone else stays...
digifreak642
Smash Journeyman
I decided to put all changes to characters into this post.
Dr. Mario: I beleive he should leave. If you run through the current Mario characters, (Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, Peach, Bowser, Dr. Mario) Dr. Mario just doesn't fit. Now Toad, there's someone who fits! :D
Pichu: I'm torn on this Pokemon. He seems pointless, but he is the best pokemon to represent the 2nd gen of Pokemon. He could go either way.
Young Link: Other than TP and OOT, Link has always appeared as a boy. I don't want him to be changed to WW Link, but I do think he should get a few more different attacks.
Roy: I think both Marth and Roy should stay. Just a personal op.
G+W: He's gotta stay. Yes, we do need another WTF character, but that doesn't mean we should kick the original.
IC: The Ice Climbers are great. Why would anyone want to get rid of them? There is no other pair of fighters that could replace them.
Sheik: Unfortunatly, I do think that Sheik may be leaving.
Mewtwo: Make him stronger
Falco: Should get different attacks so he isn't the same as Fox.
Ganondorf: I still don't understand why he was a clone. He has so much potential not to be.
Peach: Replace Toad with Toadsworth for shield. This is not as much needed as other changes, but it would increase Toad's chances.
Otherwise most characters are pretty much ok. :D
Dr. Mario: I beleive he should leave. If you run through the current Mario characters, (Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, Peach, Bowser, Dr. Mario) Dr. Mario just doesn't fit. Now Toad, there's someone who fits! :D
Pichu: I'm torn on this Pokemon. He seems pointless, but he is the best pokemon to represent the 2nd gen of Pokemon. He could go either way.
Young Link: Other than TP and OOT, Link has always appeared as a boy. I don't want him to be changed to WW Link, but I do think he should get a few more different attacks.
Roy: I think both Marth and Roy should stay. Just a personal op.
G+W: He's gotta stay. Yes, we do need another WTF character, but that doesn't mean we should kick the original.
IC: The Ice Climbers are great. Why would anyone want to get rid of them? There is no other pair of fighters that could replace them.
Sheik: Unfortunatly, I do think that Sheik may be leaving.
Mewtwo: Make him stronger
Falco: Should get different attacks so he isn't the same as Fox.
Ganondorf: I still don't understand why he was a clone. He has so much potential not to be.
Peach: Replace Toad with Toadsworth for shield. This is not as much needed as other changes, but it would increase Toad's chances.
Otherwise most characters are pretty much ok. :D
Numa Dude
Smash Lord
Pichu and DR.Mario cut
ICs G&W Marth and Roy I don't care what happens to them
Sheik will probably stay
Falco Ganon and Y.link get a new moveset.
ICs G&W Marth and Roy I don't care what happens to them
Sheik will probably stay
Falco Ganon and Y.link get a new moveset.
Kirye
Smash Ace
For those wanting to remove Marth, your reasons are beyond invalid, just to point that out.
A) "He hasn't been in any US Games!" : But he's been in the japanese versions, no? You seem to forget that Smash Bros. is a Japanese game that also satisfies the japanese players, not just the US standards. Sakurai did say he wasn't gonna add so many japanese only characters, BUT, Marth became a huge hit on Melee, to the point where thousands of people main him. Fire Emblem is also a hugely popular game in Japan, and that's honestly where it matters.
B) "I don't like him, so he should be cut! =[" : You can all just die.
I can honestly only see Pichu and Dr. Mario getting the boot, because they were pretty much the useless clones. POSSIBLY Game and Watch, though who knows what'll happen there. Ice Climbers and Ness should stay, they have their own movesets, Ness has been in since 64, and IC are a force to be reckoned with if used well.
Roy.. Who knows, he can do with a new moveset though, he's still an important FE character, and a strong one at that. Of course if Ike or BK makes it in, he might get the axe. We'll see.
And I agree, Falco and Ganon need a new moveset, and Ganon getting his new TP look.
Note: It's also possible that Falco might keep his moveset, and Fox change slightly. Now that Fox has his gun out, he might be fairly different, then again who knows, just an idea out there. Except for Falco's short range Up-B, I like his moveset.
A) "He hasn't been in any US Games!" : But he's been in the japanese versions, no? You seem to forget that Smash Bros. is a Japanese game that also satisfies the japanese players, not just the US standards. Sakurai did say he wasn't gonna add so many japanese only characters, BUT, Marth became a huge hit on Melee, to the point where thousands of people main him. Fire Emblem is also a hugely popular game in Japan, and that's honestly where it matters.
B) "I don't like him, so he should be cut! =[" : You can all just die.
I can honestly only see Pichu and Dr. Mario getting the boot, because they were pretty much the useless clones. POSSIBLY Game and Watch, though who knows what'll happen there. Ice Climbers and Ness should stay, they have their own movesets, Ness has been in since 64, and IC are a force to be reckoned with if used well.
Roy.. Who knows, he can do with a new moveset though, he's still an important FE character, and a strong one at that. Of course if Ike or BK makes it in, he might get the axe. We'll see.
And I agree, Falco and Ganon need a new moveset, and Ganon getting his new TP look.
Note: It's also possible that Falco might keep his moveset, and Fox change slightly. Now that Fox has his gun out, he might be fairly different, then again who knows, just an idea out there. Except for Falco's short range Up-B, I like his moveset.
Diddy Kong
Smash Obsessed
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Am I the only one who thinks Sheik isn't going to return? I mean, for me it's pretty oblivous she'll not be in Brawl because of her absence in Twilight Princess... And I honestly doubt they're giving Sheik a own character spot. Zero Suit Samus also moves suspiously like her, meaning that perhaps she'll be Sheik's replacement.
Really, think about it.... In Melee, Zelda had a faster yet so called "weaker" version of herself, that didn't worked out too well since Sheik was so much better than Zelda that almost ANYONE prefers her over Zelda. Now we have Zero Suit Samus, it's already been stated that if Samus loses her Power Suit she'll lose stamina and strenght, in trade for more speed. Whereas Sheik is just plain better in everything than Zelda except for recovery, it seems that Zamus is a litte more balanced so people might still prefer the original character above her...
Ofcoarse Sheik was still an unique character, but I honestly doubt she'll return in Brawl. The only way I can see her making it, is if she was in Phantom Hourglass... But then again, we'll need celshaded Link as a character to make it work...
That was my little rant about Sheik...
Really, think about it.... In Melee, Zelda had a faster yet so called "weaker" version of herself, that didn't worked out too well since Sheik was so much better than Zelda that almost ANYONE prefers her over Zelda. Now we have Zero Suit Samus, it's already been stated that if Samus loses her Power Suit she'll lose stamina and strenght, in trade for more speed. Whereas Sheik is just plain better in everything than Zelda except for recovery, it seems that Zamus is a litte more balanced so people might still prefer the original character above her...
Ofcoarse Sheik was still an unique character, but I honestly doubt she'll return in Brawl. The only way I can see her making it, is if she was in Phantom Hourglass... But then again, we'll need celshaded Link as a character to make it work...
That was my little rant about Sheik...
Sculelos
Smash Journeyman
Hmmm, I think Roy, Pichu and doc might get axed, if roy doesn't get axed I hope they change him to where he wields a two handed sword instead.
LemonManX
Smash Lord
I agree with Diddy and his rant about Sheik. I also see it as very unlikely for her return.
Especially if they go with the TP design for Zelda. She could either be in Phantom Hourglass (which I doubt) or maybe they could leave her in as a tribute to Ocarina of Time (which is loved by so many Zelda fans) but honestly... I don't know if she'll get a spot in the Brawl roster.
Especially if they go with the TP design for Zelda. She could either be in Phantom Hourglass (which I doubt) or maybe they could leave her in as a tribute to Ocarina of Time (which is loved by so many Zelda fans) but honestly... I don't know if she'll get a spot in the Brawl roster.
OysterMeister
Smash Journeyman
Well, I personaly believe that all returning clones will be given a new moveset, and seeing as Roys sword is supposed to be two handed, I belive we can look forward to a much improved Roy in the future.
And I belive that sheik will return. Diddy Kong, Bombco101, if you'd allow me to explain myself:
Although it's possible Zamus may be the new Sheik, I find it doubtful. Sheik was a ninja, everything she did was ridiculously acrobatic. Now, Samus has never shown any inclination to moving like that, and I don't think that removing her Powersuit is enough to warrent her behaving in a very un-Samus-like way.
Also, I belive you may be puting more emphasis on the Twilight Princess models than you should. Yes, Link looks like his TP incarnation, but that doesn't mean that this is the Link from TP, or that this Link is soley based on TP. In Melee, they used the OOT model for Link, but he still used his Boomerange, something that shouldn't have happened if he was truley based of the game his Model came from. In other words, the Link who appears in Smash Bros is an amalgamation of all Links to appear thus far, and does not just come from the most recent game. The same can be said of all Smash characters (such as Fox). Similarly, Zelda won't be missing Sheik just because she wasn't in the most recent game any more than Mario in Melee was missing his fireballs just because he couldn't use them in Sunshine.
And why, then, would they be useing the TP model for Link? Well, why not? Adult Link has only appeared in 2 3D games thus far: OOT and TP. Now, OOT was used for Melee, because the only alternative was to design an entierly new look for Link, and why do that when a finished design already exists? Now we have Brawl, and lo and behold we also have a second, prettier 3D Zelda game from which to draw character models. Naturaly, the developers chose to just use the newest, prettiest Link model rather than design a new one once again.
And I'm sure they'll do the same for Zelda and Ganondorf as well. Which is where the problem arises. Would you argue that, just because they have no new model for Shiek, they would leave her out of the game? I think we all have more faith in the Brawl developers than that, right? All TP models look similar to their OOT forerunners, it wouldn't be hard to update Sheiks design at all.
Well, there you have it, my overly-long rationalization for the return of Sheik.
And I belive that sheik will return. Diddy Kong, Bombco101, if you'd allow me to explain myself:
Although it's possible Zamus may be the new Sheik, I find it doubtful. Sheik was a ninja, everything she did was ridiculously acrobatic. Now, Samus has never shown any inclination to moving like that, and I don't think that removing her Powersuit is enough to warrent her behaving in a very un-Samus-like way.
Also, I belive you may be puting more emphasis on the Twilight Princess models than you should. Yes, Link looks like his TP incarnation, but that doesn't mean that this is the Link from TP, or that this Link is soley based on TP. In Melee, they used the OOT model for Link, but he still used his Boomerange, something that shouldn't have happened if he was truley based of the game his Model came from. In other words, the Link who appears in Smash Bros is an amalgamation of all Links to appear thus far, and does not just come from the most recent game. The same can be said of all Smash characters (such as Fox). Similarly, Zelda won't be missing Sheik just because she wasn't in the most recent game any more than Mario in Melee was missing his fireballs just because he couldn't use them in Sunshine.
And why, then, would they be useing the TP model for Link? Well, why not? Adult Link has only appeared in 2 3D games thus far: OOT and TP. Now, OOT was used for Melee, because the only alternative was to design an entierly new look for Link, and why do that when a finished design already exists? Now we have Brawl, and lo and behold we also have a second, prettier 3D Zelda game from which to draw character models. Naturaly, the developers chose to just use the newest, prettiest Link model rather than design a new one once again.
And I'm sure they'll do the same for Zelda and Ganondorf as well. Which is where the problem arises. Would you argue that, just because they have no new model for Shiek, they would leave her out of the game? I think we all have more faith in the Brawl developers than that, right? All TP models look similar to their OOT forerunners, it wouldn't be hard to update Sheiks design at all.
Well, there you have it, my overly-long rationalization for the return of Sheik.
Moon Monkey
Smash Hero
Dr. Mario., Y. link, Roy and pich should be cut
they should just remake Falco and Ganon
they should just remake Falco and Ganon
King_cobra3600
Smash Apprentice
50$ says that Pichu is very, very,likely never to come back...
Diddy Kong
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
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Ofcoarse I'll allow you to explain... You've made a good point there!
However... It's not just that Sheik didn't appeared only in Twilight Princess, it's just that I think that we won't see Sheik again in any Zelda game in the future. Ofcoarse Link isn't soley based on Twilight Princess... No this Link in Brawl represents the hero of all future Zelda games, this is how the devlopers want us to "remember" him. Thats why he isn't 100% based from Twilight Princess, otherwise he'd have the Gale Boomerang.
But because Link is representing the future games he's gonna star in (except Phantom Hourglass, but who knows?) Zelda, and almost every other character should to... With the exception for retro characters and timeless characters as Mario and Donkey Kong. And since there are more princesses called Zelda, I think it should be made clear that this Zelda is the Zelda in Twilight Princess... Even though her role is rather minor...
You might ask me then: "But why was Sheik in Melee then?" Well, allow me to explain...
In SSB 64, Link wasn't 100% based on Ocarina of Time. I'd rather think of Link in SSB 64 was representing all Links from older games. Even though OoT was released earlier than SSB, Link didn't looked or moved like OoT Link perse. But in Melee, the devlopers knew that OoT was the Zelda game which would be most regonised... So they based Link's look more on him, and added Zelda characters who where introduced in OoT like Sheik, Ganondorf and Young Link (Ganondorf not perse but he had devloped better as a person in OoT).
Now with the Wii released, and Twilight Princess being a release game... It's fair to say that almost everyone with a Wii, has got and beaten the game before Brawl's release. They'll probarly remember Zelda as Twilight Princess's story... And I think the change is very high that we'll see a "real" Twilight Princess character in Brawl... Because why stick with the older ones? I think it's a far better idea to lets say... Add Midna in there for marketing Twilight Princess for people who didn't bought it...
That's why I think Sheik won't come back, same goes for Young Link but he still has changes because of the Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass... And you gotta agree that the whole idea of Zero Suit Samus is very Sheik-like... Atleast, when I first saw Zamus I thought of Sheik.
Btw, Samus is pretty acrobatic... Even with her Power Suit on. Samus is some sort of space bountyhunter, like C.Falcon, Fox and Falco... All speedy characters. So it makes sence for me atleast that Zamus is a very acrobatic character. Her lasergun/whip thingie also looks alot like Sheik's Chain move... And even though Needles and Lasers aren't basically the same, I think Zamus could have some sort of move similair to Sheik's needles.
I think Sheik won't be in Brawl, but feel free to laugh and throw needles at me when she is.
OysterMeister
Smash Journeyman
Hmm, okay Diddy Kong, I see where you're coming from. However, I still have a few more counter-points.
1) Before I really get into anything, look at thiese pictures:
Now try and tell me that Link from Smash Bros 64 didn't look like his OOT model.
Okay, now that that's out of my system...
2)I wouldn't say that Link in Melee was based more off of OOT than the Link from smash bros 64 was. Link in Melee was based off of OOT only because OOT was still the only 3D appearance of link to go on. I'd say that every Link from every smash bros so far has been representing all the Links from all the Legend of Zelda games. Similarly, I'd also say that when Zelda and Ganondorf were added, they weren't made in their OOT images because they were representing the game, but because thus far they hadn't yet made another 3D appearance to go off of. (Ganondorf is a slight exeption, as OOT was his first appearance, but I'd say that since he's continued to appear in Zelda games that it was more of an evolution of an existing character of Ganon, NOT the creation of a new one).
Sheik was added not for her own sake, but because she happens to be something Zelda can do, er... something she can be.
3) And you may be right, Sheik may not appear in another Zelda game, but is that any reason to cut her as a character? I say no.
Now, you suggested Midna (or anyone from TP) as a character. But can you really expect Midna to appear in another Zelda game after TP? Not really. No more than you would expect to see agahnim, or Ralph, or Skull Kid, or Veran, or any of those other characters who will only ever appear in one Zelda game. However, although Sheik is a part of this crowd, I'd say she has a few qualities that cause her to stand out from the rest of the pack, the most important of which is this: Sheik is Zelda.
4) Okay, THIS is why I believe Sheik was added. Zelda needs something to do. The appearance of Sheik was Zelda's first real step away from being the captive princess. In OOT you found out that she was useing her magic to disguise herself and actively fight against Ganondorfs rein. Now, I haven't played all of TP, but I'm assuming she does the same thing (fight against her captor, not becoming Sheik). Zelda's sheika disguise personifies her ability to fight against her captor. In it's in this respect that I believe that Sheik stands apart from the other one-shot characters.
5) Sheik has already appeared in smash bros and is already really popular. In this respect she's already a Nintendo all-star. Cutting her just to keep with the current games seems, well, odd and counter-intuitive when it comes to making a game with such high expectations as Brawl does. Just my opinion.
6) Okay, fine, I'll admit that Zamus seems Sheik like. But we haven't seen all that much of her, so you never know.
1) Before I really get into anything, look at thiese pictures:
Now try and tell me that Link from Smash Bros 64 didn't look like his OOT model.
Okay, now that that's out of my system...
2)I wouldn't say that Link in Melee was based more off of OOT than the Link from smash bros 64 was. Link in Melee was based off of OOT only because OOT was still the only 3D appearance of link to go on. I'd say that every Link from every smash bros so far has been representing all the Links from all the Legend of Zelda games. Similarly, I'd also say that when Zelda and Ganondorf were added, they weren't made in their OOT images because they were representing the game, but because thus far they hadn't yet made another 3D appearance to go off of. (Ganondorf is a slight exeption, as OOT was his first appearance, but I'd say that since he's continued to appear in Zelda games that it was more of an evolution of an existing character of Ganon, NOT the creation of a new one).
Sheik was added not for her own sake, but because she happens to be something Zelda can do, er... something she can be.
3) And you may be right, Sheik may not appear in another Zelda game, but is that any reason to cut her as a character? I say no.
Now, you suggested Midna (or anyone from TP) as a character. But can you really expect Midna to appear in another Zelda game after TP? Not really. No more than you would expect to see agahnim, or Ralph, or Skull Kid, or Veran, or any of those other characters who will only ever appear in one Zelda game. However, although Sheik is a part of this crowd, I'd say she has a few qualities that cause her to stand out from the rest of the pack, the most important of which is this: Sheik is Zelda.
4) Okay, THIS is why I believe Sheik was added. Zelda needs something to do. The appearance of Sheik was Zelda's first real step away from being the captive princess. In OOT you found out that she was useing her magic to disguise herself and actively fight against Ganondorfs rein. Now, I haven't played all of TP, but I'm assuming she does the same thing (fight against her captor, not becoming Sheik). Zelda's sheika disguise personifies her ability to fight against her captor. In it's in this respect that I believe that Sheik stands apart from the other one-shot characters.
5) Sheik has already appeared in smash bros and is already really popular. In this respect she's already a Nintendo all-star. Cutting her just to keep with the current games seems, well, odd and counter-intuitive when it comes to making a game with such high expectations as Brawl does. Just my opinion.
6) Okay, fine, I'll admit that Zamus seems Sheik like. But we haven't seen all that much of her, so you never know.