Who is the best edge guarder?

[Crosstails20]

I am curious about everyone's opinion on this question. The reason why I ask this is so I can hopefully learn that character and stand a chance against my Smash Club filled with Clouds.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Generally speaking, the following have strong edge guarding games:

• : Needles into Bouncing Fish, Fair, Nair (very effective at ledge-trapping with its large, long-lasting hitbox and frame 3 startup)
  
• : Multiple jumps, Dair sends foes at low angle, Nair is long-lasting, etc.
  
• : Cyclone besides the last hit sends the opponent downwards (make sure you practice button mashing!)
  
• : Excellent recovery and more options than your grandma would remember (Nair, Fair (can combine with footstool a la Fox), Bair (auto link hitbox), Uair (a small hitbox sends opponents horizontally), Thunder Jolt)!
  
• : Not very good offstage, but has some of the best ledge trapping tools (just watch ZeRo). Examples include Bananas, Dtilt (frame 4 startup with poking and combo ability), and Bair (frame 5 and decent knockback).

 

[KEYLIME SSB]

Learning a specific character for one purpose is not a good idea. Dont give up on your current main, and just learn how to edge guard with them. It's pretty intuitive after a lot of practice.

 

[WiFi]

Additionally to what Skeeter said, Fox and Mewtwo are good edgeguarders, but if you're going against Cloud, Pikachu is your best bet. Or Sheik. Fox has fair-footstool for edgeguarding though, so you can kill people at 0 if you're good enough.

 

[Crosstails20]

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

[WiFi]

Your main, Lucas, is a great edgeguarder too.

 

[Crosstails20]

I play a pretty good Lucina, Kirby, Falco, and Lucas.
An okay Duck Hunt, Roy, and Olimar who is also my actual main in PM.
A noobish Pit, Pikachu, and Yoshi.
And a pretty bad Grininja, MK, and Dr. Mario.

 

[MarioManTAW]

I play a pretty good Lucina, Kirby, Falco, and Lucas.
An okay Duck Hunt, Roy, and Olimar who is also my actual main in PM.
A noobish Pit, Pikachu, and Yoshi.
And a pretty bad Grininja, MK, and Dr. Mario.

IMO you should either learn Pikachu or use Kirby.

 

[SwagGuy99]

Generally speaking, the following have strong edge guarding games:

• : Needles into Bouncing Fish, Fair, Nair (very effective at ledge-trapping with its large, long-lasting hitbox and frame 3 startup)
  
• : Multiple jumps, Dair sends foes at low angle, Nair is long-lasting, etc.
  
• : Cyclone besides the last hit sends the opponent downwards (make sure you practice button mashing!)
  
• : Excellent recovery and more options than your grandma would remember (Nair, Fair (can combine with footstool a la Fox), Bair (auto link hitbox), Uair (a small hitbox sends opponents horizontally), Thunder Jolt)!
  
• : Not very good offstage, but has some of the best ledge trapping tools (just watch ZeRo). Examples include Bananas, Dtilt (frame 4 startup with poking and combo ability), and Bair (frame 5 and decent knockback).

Mario/Dr. Mario are as well. Cape/Super Sheet and Back airs are all really good for edgeguarding.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

If you decide to use Lucas, here are some edgeguarding options. I copied this from another thread.


"As for edgeguarding, Lucas can use PKT, Pk Freeze, bair, fair, dair, down smash, and down angle foward tilts at the ledge for low end lag and fast 2 frames so we can kind of spam it if we please. Unless we go spam crazy with down smash instead of aiming for an actual two frame since it is the popular option I see.

Lucas is also able to use PK Fire, magnet for positioning, Zair, and fast fall nair offstage into footstools."

 

[WiFi]

Hmm, as you mentioned that you had Cloud problems, I'd recommend using your Lucina against Cloud, as her matchup is better against Cloud. Using Lucina to edgeguard Cloud is easy, once you get him offstage, counter his Climhazard (Up-B) or just counter when you get in range. If he attacks or airdodges, chances are he'll be too low to recover and he'll die. You can also just attack him using Nair or Fair and if they aren't good at spacing they'll die. I wouldn't use your Kirby or Falco because Cloud eats low-tiers for breakfast, but if you are confident, both can go deep offstage for an edgeguard, but doing so requires winning neutral, of which Kirby and Falco get destroyed by Cloud.

As for Lucas, I'm not a Lucas expert by any means, but if he's offstage, many of Lucas's special attacks are great edgeguarding tools. Same with Duck Hunt. As both are zoners, use projectiles to wall Cloud out, and if he gets in grab him and throw him offstage. However, if the Cloud plays really campy and Limit Camps, you're screwed, as once Cloud gets Limit he becomes a whole different animal. To avoid this, fight from a medium range, just outside his swordlength.

After looking this through, your best bet is Lucina or Lucas, as they are both really good at edgeguarding, and they don't get absolutely destroyed by Cloud. Even then, your probably best off with Lucina, as Sword characters do pretty ok against Cloud, and he can't Limit Camp Lucina.

Hope this helps.

 

[GokuEllis]

Surprised with how little people have mentioned Cloud or Sonic tbh. I’ve had a lot of success with edge guarding with both of them

 

[Scorpion17]

I am curious about everyone's opinion on this question. The reason why I ask this is so I can hopefully learn that character and stand a chance against my Smash Club filled with Clouds.

shorthop dair off edge works for some characters, but projectile characters like duckhunt can be really annoying when off the edge (one of my good friends has a solid duck hunt) especially for characters with linear recoveries.

 

[Dr.Betes]

I think overall sheik is one of best edge guarders

 

[Thatonehelper]

For edgeguarding offstage the general consensus is that Villager is the best and pikachu is second best. Both have strong ledge traps, as every good ledge guarder does. There are actually very few characters WITHOUT good ledge traps. The top 2 are top just because of how safe they are no matter how far they go.
I would say the first 2 are generally agreed upon universally, taking all characters and situations into account. All my opinion though.
All these characters have great coverage. If one thing fails, they generally have something else that will.
1. Villager
2. Pikachu
3. Luigi
4. Bayonetta
5. Sheik
6. Jigglypuff
7. ZSS
8. Lucas
9. Mario
10. ???? idk honestly for 10 and beyond. Sonic? G&W? Pacman? So many characters decent at edgeguarding...

-Ledge traps are their own beast. See this BSD video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZnjQZGUnqI
- Old video but has some explanation of some strong edge guarders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB4Xz6QDHCM

A quick rant on a few characters that come to mind. I can literally talk about the stupid stuff every character has.

• Villager: tree setups, watering can, lloyd rocket, dash attack pot, bowling ball, fair, bair, nair, dair are all great for edgeguarding. Like king Dedede's gordo stick setup, it takes forever to get out but if it's setup correctly its almost guaranteed death. Extremely great coverage, variety of techniques, safety, amazing range. Let's not forget trump to back air.
• Pikachu: a myraid amount of ways to kill and edgeguard and it is very easy for Pikachu to recover. All his aerials are great for edgeguarding, thunder jolt, and thunder are great offstage. He also has many set ups to get opponents offstage (ahem grab... fair planes ahem). All in all, great coverage, variety of techniques, and great safety. Oh and axe for style. Goes deep easily and comes back effortlessly. Goes deep easily and great at coming back.
• Luigi cyclone is gimp city. Many characters cant deal with it and the best way to get around it is to either go high and risk death if they dont cyclone or use a combination of air dodge and saving/using your double jump at a good time. If you get hit by a Luigi who has mastered getting the few hits in on cyclone, even the best SDI is usually not enough to get you into the last hit to launch you up. Better be ready to tech that lest you get stage spiked and DI correctly if sent away. Cyclone, when timed correctly has ridiculous coverage and is very easy to set up. Also has ridiculous ledge traps thanks to all his aerials auto cancelling. Uair links to almost anything. Bair is very strong and also great after a trump. fireball spam is extremely safe.
• Bayonetta: Oh bayonetta... Mini rant.. she has so much ridic... not even gonna touch the tip of the ice burg...Very good recovery, Ridiculous frame data, rage monster, ridiculous priority, witch time, triple jump, easy 0 to deaths. Let's see... Up special turns back recoveries around, comes out frame 4, and has ridiculous priority as well as great vertical distance for recovery. Everyone knows she can come back from anything with triple jump and can easily return to stage if there's a wall to bounce off of or wall cling to. And if you mastered triple jump then super easy. Oh yeah, did I mention that her aerials are ridiculous? dair will spike and kill even at 0% and If you're at stage level when using it offstage, you're guaranteed to make it back (like sonic). Many set ups for dair and its true after a footstool to make it worse. Footstools spell death offstage for many characters already, so you can rub it in even more just cuz. Can even just spam dair or dsmash on stage and if it 2 frames then easy money. Backair does 13 damage very good damage and range. You bet she's good at trumping and to top it off, if you witch time an opponent who has a hitbox on their recovery, then you're gonna trump them unless they buffer an option in time. You can fair string the fast fallers off the side easily when they're at lower percents. Then there's the lingering forever, huge hitbox nair for spin 2 win. BULLET ARTS oh yeahhhhhhh~ charge that b button and shoot lead. Yeah she has many tools...
• Sheik is a very strong and fast ledge guarder as well with lots of tools to pressure offstage and come back easily. Needles, bair, nair, fair, vanish, and bouncing fish make quick work of many characters.
• King Dedede's gordo stick trap is almost guaranteed death with the correct setup. However, it takes forever to get it set up from advantage state. Standard gordo trap is efficient and is extrememly effective against characters with bad getup options like Bowser and DK.
• Cloud has strong attacks and ridiculously strong and easy ledge traps
• Diddy Kong has extremely strong ledge trapping game. Banana makes getting up tricky as diddy has coverage for everything. And can do well even without banana. Popgun and fair spam at ledge is extremely safe. No slouch offstage either with dair and being a fast faller (don't airdodge. See captain falcon & Falco). Of course bair and fair are useful in their own right.
• Lucas: mixup king. Like ZSS he will make it back from anything and got a ton of aerials, specials, and zair to deal with everything. PK fire? awesome. All the aerials are great except uair obviously. Also like ZSS, has ridiculous mileage from throws. If it's a good Lucas player they'll know the percentages for the mixups and you're dead. Hang too long and you're eating a bair, dtilt, or dsmash. Also like ZSS, tether trump to bair and bye bye. His great air speed makes a world of difference. Oh yeah there's also PK thunder tail, Magnet hitbox/windbox, and PK freeze. Great recovery and coverage.
• ZSS: Hit confirm and you're dead. Flip kick, fair, bair, zair are strong offstage. Has a ton of strong at ledge traps. Namely braindead dsmash at ledge where the follow-up that will literally kill you if the ZSS player is good. Little macs and Ness players will know. Tons of mileage and mixups on throws as well. Being a fast faller helps her offense in this regard. Recovery and instant trump are very easy to do.
• Lucario: Aurasphere + rage (80%+ ahem... godmode) and you're almost always dead unless you get back on perfectly, hit him, have something to absorb the sphere, or Lucario player messes up. A good lucario player will be able to cover all the get up options.
• Sonic: Spring ruins bad recoveries. Great recovery with spinshot. Fair and bair are useful. Very effective ledge traps. The braindead Fsmash at ledge; Olimar and Metaknight agree on brain dead fsmash.
• Jigglypuff: One fair, bair, or nair setup at the correct percentage and hit angle and OOF you better bet your stock is gone against a good Jigglypuff. Wall of pain. Even 1 stray hit or a few can kill you just as easily.
• Mario: cape and fludd make quick work of any mistakes in bad recoveries. All aerials are great when combined with his great air speed and becomes a monster with rage. Oh yeah and if you DI in or airdodge poorly then he's gonna slam you straight down with fair.

 

[Crosstails20]

I would like to thank everyone again for their responses.

 

[LaneTip]

well, I'm not 100% on top tier edgegauders (not as in top tier like tier list, but as in they're good at edgegaurding)
but charizard can do a number on clouds when on the edge.
get cloud off stage, and use flamethrower, he can grab the ledge then
afterwards, use down smash then
unless that was patched it should be an amazing match up for cloud

 

[Crosstails20]

What is no one going to say Pit?

 

[Lukingordex]

As times passes i'm more and more inclined to agree that edgeguarding is essential for Yoshi and is actually one of his best ways to take stocks. I'm consistently getting Dair gimps in a lot of matches lately, and Cloud is one of the easiest characters to get dair gimps on.
However, considering you're apparently specifically looking for a character to use against Cloud, I would not recommend Yoshi since it's agreed to be one of his worst MUs, and the edgeguard factor is actually the only thing that makes it somewhat playable for Yoshi

 

[DakotaBonez]

Wii Fit Trainer is the ledge queen.

the volleyball header seems to have been designed as the ultimate ledge camping tool.

 

[SwagGuy99]

For edgeguarding offstage the general consensus is that Villager is the best and pikachu is second best. Both have strong ledge traps, as every good ledge guarder does. There are actually very few characters WITHOUT good ledge traps. The top 2 are top just because of how safe they are no matter how far they go.
I would say the first 2 are generally agreed upon universally, taking all characters and situations into account. All my opinion though.
All these characters have great coverage. If one thing fails, they generally have something else that will.
1. Villager
2. Pikachu
3. Luigi
4. Bayonetta
5. Sheik
6. Jigglypuff
7. ZSS
8. Lucas
9. Mario
10. ???? idk honestly for 10 and beyond. Sonic? G&W? Pacman? So many characters decent at edgeguarding...

-Ledge traps are their own beast. See this BSD video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZnjQZGUnqI
- Old video but has some explanation of some strong edge guarders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB4Xz6QDHCM

A quick rant on a few characters that come to mind. I can literally talk about the stupid stuff every character has.

• Villager: tree setups, watering can, lloyd rocket, dash attack pot, bowling ball, fair, bair, nair, dair are all great for edgeguarding. Like king Dedede's gordo stick setup, it takes forever to get out but if it's setup correctly its almost guaranteed death. Extremely great coverage, variety of techniques, safety, amazing range. Let's not forget trump to back air.
• Pikachu: a myraid amount of ways to kill and edgeguard and it is very easy for Pikachu to recover. All his aerials are great for edgeguarding, thunder jolt, and thunder are great offstage. He also has many set ups to get opponents offstage (ahem grab... fair planes ahem). All in all, great coverage, variety of techniques, and great safety. Oh and axe for style. Goes deep easily and comes back effortlessly. Goes deep easily and great at coming back.
• Luigi cyclone is gimp city. Many characters cant deal with it and the best way to get around it is to either go high and risk death if they dont cyclone or use a combination of air dodge and saving/using your double jump at a good time. If you get hit by a Luigi who has mastered getting the few hits in on cyclone, even the best SDI is usually not enough to get you into the last hit to launch you up. Better be ready to tech that lest you get stage spiked and DI correctly if sent away. Cyclone, when timed correctly has ridiculous coverage and is very easy to set up. Also has ridiculous ledge traps thanks to all his aerials auto cancelling. Uair links to almost anything. Bair is very strong and also great after a trump. fireball spam is extremely safe.
• Bayonetta: Oh bayonetta... Mini rant.. she has so much ridic... not even gonna touch the tip of the ice burg...Very good recovery, Ridiculous frame data, rage monster, ridiculous priority, witch time, triple jump, easy 0 to deaths. Let's see... Up special turns back recoveries around, comes out frame 4, and has ridiculous priority as well as great vertical distance for recovery. Everyone knows she can come back from anything with triple jump and can easily return to stage if there's a wall to bounce off of or wall cling to. And if you mastered triple jump then super easy. Oh yeah, did I mention that her aerials are ridiculous? dair will spike and kill even at 0% and If you're at stage level when using it offstage, you're guaranteed to make it back (like sonic). Many set ups for dair and its true after a footstool to make it worse. Footstools spell death offstage for many characters already, so you can rub it in even more just cuz. Can even just spam dair or dsmash on stage and if it 2 frames then easy money. Backair does 13 damage very good damage and range. You bet she's good at trumping and to top it off, if you witch time an opponent who has a hitbox on their recovery, then you're gonna trump them unless they buffer an option in time. You can fair string the fast fallers off the side easily when they're at lower percents. Then there's the lingering forever, huge hitbox nair for spin 2 win. BULLET ARTS oh yeahhhhhhh~ charge that b button and shoot lead. Yeah she has many tools...
• Sheik is a very strong and fast ledge guarder as well with lots of tools to pressure offstage and come back easily. Needles, bair, nair, fair, vanish, and bouncing fish make quick work of many characters.
• King Dedede's gordo stick trap is almost guaranteed death with the correct setup. However, it takes forever to get it set up from advantage state. Standard gordo trap is efficient and is extrememly effective against characters with bad getup options like Bowser and DK.
• Cloud has strong attacks and ridiculously strong and easy ledge traps
• Diddy Kong has extremely strong ledge trapping game. Banana makes getting up tricky as diddy has coverage for everything. And can do well even without banana. Popgun and fair spam at ledge is extremely safe. No slouch offstage either with dair and being a fast faller (don't airdodge. See captain falcon & Falco). Of course bair and fair are useful in their own right.
• Lucas: mixup king. Like ZSS he will make it back from anything and got a ton of aerials, specials, and zair to deal with everything. PK fire? awesome. All the aerials are great except uair obviously. Also like ZSS, has ridiculous mileage from throws. If it's a good Lucas player they'll know the percentages for the mixups and you're dead. Hang too long and you're eating a bair, dtilt, or dsmash. Also like ZSS, tether trump to bair and bye bye. His great air speed makes a world of difference. Oh yeah there's also PK thunder tail, Magnet hitbox/windbox, and PK freeze. Great recovery and coverage.
• ZSS: Hit confirm and you're dead. Flip kick, fair, bair, zair are strong offstage. Has a ton of strong at ledge traps. Namely braindead dsmash at ledge where the follow-up that will literally kill you if the ZSS player is good. Little macs and Ness players will know. Tons of mileage and mixups on throws as well. Being a fast faller helps her offense in this regard. Recovery and instant trump are very easy to do.
• Lucario: Aurasphere + rage (80%+ ahem... godmode) and you're almost always dead unless you get back on perfectly, hit him, have something to absorb the sphere, or Lucario player messes up. A good lucario player will be able to cover all the get up options.
• Sonic: Spring ruins bad recoveries. Great recovery with spinshot. Fair and bair are useful. Very effective ledge traps. The braindead Fsmash at ledge; Olimar and Metaknight agree on brain dead fsmash.
• Jigglypuff: One fair, bair, or nair setup at the correct percentage and hit angle and OOF you better bet your stock is gone against a good Jigglypuff. Wall of pain. Even 1 stray hit or a few can kill you just as easily.
• Mario: cape and fludd make quick work of any mistakes in bad recoveries. All aerials are great when combined with his great air speed and becomes a monster with rage. Oh yeah and if you DI in or airdodge poorly then he's gonna slam you straight down with fair.

Dr. Mario has back airs and cape too.

 

[Crosstails20]

Ya, but it is less than stellar.