Who is ness's worst matchup?

[Ademisk]

Uhm, if you have problems with Captain Falcons or Ganondorfs, try nair. It's the perfect edgeguard to their recovery, try around 65% and you can usually sneak in a kill. And like I said before, uairs and utilits against Captain Falcon, bairs and fairs tend to pwn Ganondorf. Shiek is much worse because she destroys Ness in the air, so you REALLY have to rely on those djcffled attacks low to the ground.

 

[Gannondorf the fifth]

Actually, everything is good against ness....he's one of those characters in the game that just CAN'T reach the tournament level play. Why? Because he was a rushed, last minute character that hal labs threw in the game very quickly, and obviously, very sloppily and with quite a few glitches. Ness isn't for true competitors.

 

[Ademisk]

Ness is for anyone who wants to play Ness.

 

[thesage]

Actually, everything is good against ness....he's one of those characters in the game that just CAN'T reach the tournament level play. Why? Because he was a rushed, last minute character that hal labs threw in the game very quickly, and obviously, very sloppily and with quite a few glitches. Ness isn't for true competitors.

Actually, Gannondorf was the last character to be put in. He was originally supposed to have a sword, but the programmers ran out of time and rushed him in as a Falcon clone.

Ness isn't one of the glitchiest characters in the whole game. Have you ever seen an expert Fox (SHL, Shine), Samus(SWD, Missle cancel, beam cancel), Peach (turnip stuff, FC), and almost every other character as a glitch associated with them.

Please STFU.

 

[Ademisk]

You know I heard they just cloned an old SNES fghting game and put in Nintendo characters and updated graphics, please come on, stop talking about crap you've only heard in vague rumors. It's stupid.

 

[thesage]

You know I heard they just cloned an old SNES fghting game and put in Nintendo characters and updated graphics, please come on, stop talking about crap you've only heard in vague rumors. It's stupid.

Wait are you talking to me? It IS true! Ganondorf was supposed to have a sword. There's even a code on action replay that gives him one. I find it kinda interesting actually because Ganon on the AR char select is the last "regular" character available (the non-reg being Master Hand, Crazy hand and such).

Another interesting fact is that there is a code listed somewhere that allows ganon's sword to affect gameplay but it doesn't work. The closest you can get is picking up a beam sword. =p

(the sword mentioned is the one he uses in his victory dance btw).

If you don't believe go to the AR thread in MD and ask. Everyone there will confirm my story. I think there's a vid somewhere but... sleep.... *reads OC3 results thread for daily soap opera dosage*

 

[mood4food77]

ICs, fox and g&w are the glitchiest characters in the game

ness' YYG is put in on purpose, i mean, it acts more like an easter egg than a glitch, just yo-yo glitch sounds cooler than yo-yo egg, and it seems glitchy

i mean, hitting your opponent with a single hit of hi yo-yo smash charge deploys a hitbox on the ground....doesn't sound like an accident

but ness hates sheik, marth, ganon, jiggs, and g&w the most

 

[thesage]

I can't see ganon being harder than CF. I've never had a problem with a ganon. I think it's an even matchup.

 

[Ademisk]

there probably is no worst character for Ness, it really depends on the style of play of the person you're fighitng VS your style, character plays in, but beyond segregating it into something like a top 5, there's no real absolute worst character for Ness(except Shiek)

 

[Gannondorf the fifth]

Actually, Gannondorf was the last character to be put in. He was originally supposed to have a sword, but the programmers ran out of time and rushed him in as a Falcon clone.

Ness isn't one of the glitchiest characters in the whole game. Have you ever seen an expert Fox (SHL, Shine), Samus(SWD, Missle cancel, beam cancel), Peach (turnip stuff, FC), and almost every other character as a glitch associated with them.

Please STFU.

Allright tough s h i t, let's dance! I wonder how, by your logic, they could actually create an entire moveset, with a few differences, including not only number logical differences but also graphical as well. HOW, oh how, would taking out a sword be harder then giving a character a whole different set of moves with their own unique strenghths and differences as compared to a sword???? And um, yeah, you talk a lot of dumb s h it! CLEARLY you don't understand the difference between a GLITCH and STRAIGHT UP SKILL!! What you listed for fox, samus, and peach...well, absolutely nothing you listed is a glitch (swd the exception).

 

[Ademisk]

Well it is kinda wierd, since Sakurai has said that his moves are taken from his actual moves during OoT, and yet, other than a few minor differences in appearance(the difference in actual use are only differences in their hitbox and timing) his moves do look exactly like Captain Falcon's.

 

[dan smith]

Actually, Gannondorf was the last character to be put in. He was originally supposed to have a sword, but the programmers ran out of time and rushed him in as a Falcon clone.

Please STFU.

OOH! You owned that guy! Internet high five!!

Anyway...Sheik, Peach, Jiggs, and Marth are the toughies. Not so much Marth once you get it down. Ness does have a lot of up hill battles (most characters) but few as bad as those.

G&W is an obnoxiously viable counter too.

 

[Ness_STFU]

It's my opinion that Ness's reason for generally sucking isn't attributed to his late addition to the game, but rather his role in N64 Smash Brothers.


As far as Meta game goes, Ness was GOD mode in N64, at the Intermediate level. And as we all know, N64 Smash never realized the same level of success as Melee, therefore the majority of Ness players were intermediate. HAL saw this, and nerfed him accordingly. Unfortunately, they nerfed him a little too hard.

As you can see, his most powerful moves (remember, speaking at the intermediate level, not at the advanced level), have become his some of his worst.

PKT2 could propel Ness... probably in the area of 20 body lengths in N64. Now I'd guess the number to be closer to 6-8.

Additionally, look at his Down-Air. In N64, the move was instantaneous and long lasting, to the point where you could spam it for a 0-death combo. Now, in Melee, it has horrid lag and has a quick hit box.

Anyways, it seems that Ness was just nerfed a little too hard.

This is my opinion as player whose main was Ness in N64 and still is in Melee.


Regardless, I still believe that Melee Ness's true potential has yet to be unlocked, much like Falco or Ice Climbers were initially.

It's beginning to happen though. There are combos which I've pulled out on friends that make their jaws drop (0-death on fast fallers using nothing but U-tilt, U-air and U-throw). The secret lies in DJC SHFFLs. At the very fastest level, you can throw them out faster than wavedashes.


Time will heal Ness, as the few players who play him grow in skill level (hopefully).


But it is tough being the underdog...

 

[Ademisk]

Actually, his dair still has a pretty long hitbox, longer than it looks, at least.

 

[indie_dave]

dan! u been missing all teh lulz action on nessboards lately XD

 

[GildedPunch]

Actually, I completely agree with stfu when he says that he has yet to be unlocked.
BUUUUT!
Brawl is comin' out soon so I guess we're pretty much too late to show some SERIOUS difference.

 

[thesage]

Ness sucked in ssb64. He had no approaches...

@Ganondorf the fifth:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5PrAauiwBa0

If you're trying to tell me that turnip canceling and the vidjo drop aren't glitches please just stop. Almost every character has something similar to shl and missle cancel (Mario's fireballs, Doc's pills, Luigi's fireballs not sure about the electric rats and IC's netrual b). It takes skill to use these (for you at least, they are honestly not that hard you could probably get it down in an hour), but they are glitches nonetheless. Do you honestly think that the game designers wanted Fox and the IC's to have infinites, for some characters to have NO lag after using a move?

Thanks to M4F for reminding me about the gay glitchiness of the IC's. They are def the glitchiest chars in the game.

 

[GildedPunch]

Ness sucked in ssb64. He had no approaches...

@Ganondorf the fifth:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5PrAauiwBa0

If you're trying to tell me that turnip canceling and the vidjo drop aren't glitches please just stop. Almost every character has something similar to shl and missle cancel (Mario's fireballs, Doc's pills, Luigi's fireballs not sure about the electric rats and IC's netrual b). It takes skill to use these (for you at least, they are honestly not that hard you could probably get it down in an hour), but they are glitches nonetheless. Do you honestly think that the game designers wanted Fox and the IC's to have infinites, for some characters to have NO lag after using a move?

Thanks to M4F for reminding me about the gay glitchiness of the IC's. They are def the glitchiest chars in the game.

Niiiiiiice.

 

[Deleted member]

sheik fox and peach are the worst, in that order.

 

[knightpraetor]

@thesage - didn't read all of the posts here, but honestly, are you any good at 64 at all..ness has no approaches?

ness isn't ranked 3rd in that game without reason...and that's at advanced level play.

at intermediate level throws plus dair combos place him on par with the top two...unfortunately z -cancelling helps kirby and pika a lot more than it helped him..because the gameplay shifted away from an overfocus on the throw game.

Anyways, how can anyone think ness sucks in 64??!!

as for approaches...approaching from above is almost always safe with ness except against people like pika who have ridiculous priority everywhere...slight dangers against fox..mainly because even if you had equal chances to hit...if the fox hits he gets upair chains...

also, DJC approach..just dash dance arouna and punish with that seriously..

now you could argue at low level play that DJC isn't incorporated...but at that level then ness's throw is ridiculously powerful kill move..just dash dance / roll around....without z-cancelling it's hard for people to punish throw happy ness's.

however, with z-cancelling in that game creating no lag shield grabbing is much weaker

 

[kenny10]

sheik fox and peach are the worst, in that order.

I don't think that Fox is that bad against Ness. Fox is a fast-faller and we all know that Ness can destroy fast-fallers with throws, uairs, and finishing with a bair or backthrow. I would replace Fox in that list with Jiggs because of her edgeguarding and it's really hard to combo a decent Jiggs.

 

[dan smith]

Mow is right, in a sense, which is how he always is. Fox can destroy Ness...but not a run of the mill Fox! Your average Fox isn't that bad. Which is kind of more important, unless you're at a big tourney.

STFU is 100% correct on why Ness is low tier. Same is true of Kirby. My mates and I joke about how bad Fox and Sheik are going to be in Brawl due to overcompensation.

 

[Deleted member]

in many ways, fox and sheik are the worst possible characters for basically anyone in mid tier and down, since they lack ways to deal with shine, lasers, and his raw speed. Tournament wise, fox can ban FD against ness and can DI to survive his backthrow until at least 130% and live on all neutrals I think.

Also, a fox that doesn't DI ness's upthrow, and DIs to a side from the DJC headbutt doesn't get combo'd past that, eliminating ness's 1 advantage on fox, his ability to combo him.

 

[dan smith]

I think in many ways it's an interesting match up, I enjoy talking about it...but ultimately yeah, a Fox who knows what he's doing is going to shine you all the way to the edge and then beyond.

 

[indie_dave]

pichu is a BEAST!!!!11!1
XDXDXD

 

[indie_dave]

i realized how much i like this topic after reading through it again. BUMP