Who do you think will finally take down ZeRo?

[JD .]

Props to vinnie! Very close to taking Zero out!

 

[Kaladin]

EVO, ZeRo 3-0'd in grands. SSC, ZeRo was taken to game five. PAX, someone took a set. Paragon... ZeRo gets second?

 

[thehard]

I totally forgot that Vinnie took ZeRo to last hit in the EVO crew battle (Sheik ditto)

I think he might be a better technical Sheik than ZeRo

 

[ArikadoSD]

I totally forgot that Vinnie took ZeRo to last hit in the EVO crew battle (Sheik ditto)

I think he might be a better technical Sheik than ZeRo

That was pretty damn obvious lol.

ZeRo isn't exactly the most technical sheik.

 

[Xeze]

In terms of technique, Vinnie's Sheik and even Mr. R's Sheik are better than ZeRo's, imo. ZeRo is just the better player overall. His Diddy is on point though.

 

[Macchiato]

I feel like ven will beat ZeRo because Zelda is broken and needs a ban

BAN•ZELDA

 

[Harlow]

Nairo on a good day could probably topple him.

 

[M15t3R E]

That was pretty damn obvious lol.

ZeRo isn't exactly the most technical sheik.

He's just probably the smartest one, able to react lightning quick.
ESAM was one smash attack away from sending ZeRo to losers during the SSC tournament in Chantilly, VA on Aug.6-8. If I were ZeRo, I'd be concerned with him. I wouldn't be all that surprised if ZeRo eventually picks up a character like Luigi to deal with him.

 

[LightLV]

Nairo has a mental block. He won multiple games against ZeRo at EVO (had a kill confim with nothing ZeRo could do) but choked. ESAM does not have a mental block, took him to game 5, and only lost because he airdodged at the wrong time. ESAM will take him down at the lastest Apex 2016. Mr. R, Abadango, etc just are not on ZeRo and ESAM's level, particularly considering ESAM v. ZeRo at SSC.

That EVO match was so painful to watch. Nairo beat the breaks off of ZeRo those first 2 matches. One was clearly a choke and the other was a dumb fluke of epic proportions.

His morale was probably just shot the final match. The 2nd round ended on some "run up to punish and trip"-level BS. ZeRo won the match fair and square but in a long set i have no doubts Nairo would beat ZeRo regardless of whom he picked

 

[Scootch]

Vinnie took a set off ZeRo in Pax Prime's GF so I think that Vinnie in time could eventually get the best of ZeRo.

 

[RIP|Merrick]

ZeRo is actually attending our regional here in Michigan, and everyone is working their tails off to give him a run for his money.

 

[sleepy_Nex]

I bet it will be some wifi-fighter who just gets out of his dark and cold cave.

 

[verbatim]

IDK, I think a lot of the top smash 4 players have the ability to beat him at Big House, but if that doesn't happen my money is on Ranai winning Apex. Apart from being #1 on Japan's pr, he has a consistent record of pulling off amazing things against high level Sheik's and Diddy Kong's. Included are edgeguarding examples that show just how intelligent of a player he is.

Edgeguarding Sheik

Edgeguarding Diddy Kong

 

[W.A.C.]

I don't understand why people have so much confidence in Nairo. He's potentially the second best player at the game (at least in the Americas), but he always chokes against ZeRo all while ZeRo typically plays on point against Nairo. I don't expect to see ZeRo lose a tournament anytime soon unless he gets massively screwed over by a balance patch. He's just flat out better than anyone else at the game.

 

[verbatim]

IDK, at this point always is twice, and neither EVO or CEO were blowout victories for him.

 

[ReturningFall]

Time.

Think of Ken. He dominated the early Melee metagame for years until he just got sick of it.

If this most recent break is any indication, I think we might be starting to see ZeRo get tired of it, too. He's got some years left, but I think what really does ZeRo in isn't a newfangled player or even a suddenly more skilled rival. It's the crowd always cheering against him. It's the constant, endless practice it takes to stay on top. It's the realization that as he gets older, his reactions and learning rate gets slower.

 

[shadenexus18]

None of the above.

When Daigo Umehara trains with Ryu, that guy will have his name changed to Divided by ZeRo.

He will use this controller too if he could. Heh heh. Lawl.

 

[shane3x]

Future Zero arrives from a post-apocalyptic future to defeat current Zero after we experience 20XX.

 

[Froggy]

Now that Abadango seems to have learned the Shiek matchup i'd put my money on him. Ranai would be the other player I think might pull it off.

 

[Quarium]

Ranai would be the other player I think might pull it off.

Was watching this dude play agaisnt some top level Sheiks of Japan with his Villager and jfc, he makes the matchup look so even and his desicion making, option coverage, mixups and setups are absolutely incredible. I do also believe he has a shot.

 

[Damandatwin]

ZeRo has come closer to losing as he has been getting more burned out/demotivated. If he's on the ball and practicing like he used to nobody's beating him yet. However if he continues the way he has been he's going to lose pretty soon. Assuming he doesn't suddenly regain his motivation, I think whoever beats him is pretty much random (i.e. which top player happens to catch him at his worst).

 

[mikael fernandes]

probably ESAM IMO. Nairo chokes a lot when facing against him.

 

[Supersteve45]

I'm thinking that Vinny will be the one to finally take down Zero. They've had some very close sets in the past.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Now that Abadango seems to have learned the Shiek matchup i'd put my money on him. Ranai would be the other player I think might pull it off.

How is learning the Sheik matchup going to make him win when both Pacman and Wario have bad matchups against Sheik? Also since when did he not know the matchup?

 

[Baby_Sneak]

How is learning the Sheik matchup going to make him win when both Pacman and Wario have bad matchups against Sheik? Also since when did he not know the matchup?

It'll help him win when he knows it better than ZeRo.
And MUs are not just character vs character, it's also PvP (this means learning the base for MUs are hard and takes forever when people of the same character plays differently) so ZeRo will probably not lose assuming he downloads abadango and play smart like he usually does.

 

[ASCII]

ESAM has the best chance of beating ZeRo. He has more Sheik experience than ZeRo has Pikachu experience, and since ESAM was so close to sending him in losers at SuperSmashCon, ESAM is hungrier for the win. Also Florida hype!

 

[verbatim]

How is learning the Sheik matchup going to make him win when both Pacman and Wario have bad matchups against Sheik? Also since when did he not know the matchup?

He's more or less replaced Wario with MK, who has a passable Sheik MU.

 

[DunnoBro]

In all honesty, probably someone unexpected that slams him with MU inexperience.

 

[Xeze]

In all honesty, probably someone unexpected that slams him with MU inexperience.

It will be a Ganondorf player, doing 4 ganoncides (6 in a bo5 set) in a row.

 

[verbatim]

In all honesty, probably someone unexpected that slams him with MU inexperience.

So Ranai/Abadango.

In all seriousness, I'm surprised Nairo's never tried Dark Pit in a high stakes match post EVO, he's not as good as ZSS, but he's not a bad character, and it's not like his opponents will have anyone approaching his caliber to practice the matchup with.

 

[Wintropy]

So Ranai/Abadango.

In all seriousness, I'm surprised Nairo's never tried Dark Pit in a high stakes match post EVO, he's not as good as ZSS, but he's not a bad character, and it's not like his opponents will have anyone approaching his caliber to practice the matchup with.

There's theories that Pit has a close to even matchup with Sheik. Some folks even say it's good for the angels.

Now I don't believe that myself, it's just theory, but it might be worth considering - if only for the reasons you mentioned. Nairo has done good work against good Sheiks (i.e. Nietono and Vinnie) and Pink Fresh has some good displays in his matchups with Chudat and suarsuar. ZeRo is better than Nietono and Vinnie and Nairo is a caliber beyond Pink Fresh, but it does demonstrate that the matchup is winnable in good hands.

 

[Pazx]

There's theories that Pit has a close to even matchup with Sheik. Some folks even say it's good for the angels.

Now I don't believe that myself, it's just theory, but it might be worth considering - if only for the reasons you mentioned. Nairo has done good work against good Sheiks (i.e. Nietono and Vinnie) and Pink Fresh has some good displays in his matchups with Chudat and suarsuar. ZeRo is better than Nietono and Vinnie and Nairo is a caliber beyond Pink Fresh, but it does demonstrate that the matchup is winnable in good hands.

You omitted one of the more significant examples: Earth (who is almost certainly the best Pit main in the known universe) has beat Rain at least a couple of times and I'm sure he goes through plenty of other less notable Sheiks in Japanese tourneys. As for beating ZeRo, I doubt Earth would come particularly close (although I'd love to be proven wrong) and even if we do see Nairo's Pit come out it's clearly not quite as polished as his ZSS.

FWIW I'd personally consider opting for Pit against Sheik in tournament, possibly in front of Diddy and/or MK. My character pool is obnoxiously deep and the fact that I'd pull out the admittedly rusty Pit over tried and true top tiers is a testament to the fact that he really does have the tools to deal with Sheik better than most.

/charactercompetitiveimpressions

 

[Wintropy]

You omitted one of the more significant examples: Earth (who is almost certainly the best Pit main in the known universe) has beat Rain at least a couple of times and I'm sure he goes through plenty of other less notable Sheiks in Japanese tourneys. As for beating ZeRo, I doubt Earth would come particularly close (although I'd love to be proven wrong) and even if we do see Nairo's Pit come out it's clearly not quite as polished as his ZSS.

FWIW I'd personally consider opting for Pit against Sheik in tournament, possibly in front of Diddy and/or MK. My character pool is obnoxiously deep and the fact that I'd pull out the admittedly rusty Pit over tried and true top tiers is a testament to the fact that he really does have the tools to deal with Sheik better than most.

/charactercompetitiveimpressions

Ha, I did try to find more sets, but I only really know about what goes in the US and EU.

I do think somebody here hit the nail on the head, mind you: inertia will be what takes down ZeRo.

 

[KingSandhu01]

Pretty self explanatory. Who do you think will finally take down ZeRo, and why? Personally I'm thinking ESAM just because of his amazing run against ZeRo at SSC.

tbh with nairo winning paragon and zero missing out on the competition zero will lose to nairo. Plus marios Zss is God tier

 

[W.A.C.]

I don't understand why people keep assuming Nairo will be the first player to beat ZeRo. I don't think he has ever taken ZeRo to game 5 in a tournament set.

 

[FallenHero]

I don't understand why people keep assuming Nairo will be the first player to beat ZeRo. I don't think he has ever taken ZeRo to game 5 in a tournament set.

I don't think that really means that he won't be either. Currently it really looks like Nairo and Esam are the closest to dethroning ZeRo.

 

[Joaco]

I will.

 

[1337Kai]

I'm putting other because I'm counting out anyone who ZeRo has already beaten (Esam, Nairo, Mr. R). I feel like either Rain or Ranai have a higher chance. ZeRo himself said that Japanese players are highly skilled. Rain is the #1 ranked player in Japan and plays very similarly to ZeRo (mains the same characters too). Though Rain wins every tournament, he has never won a set off of Ranai. I'm more in favor of Ranai (has a better record against Rain and wins all the tourneys he goes to), but the problem is that he's the PPMD of Smash 4 where he rarely shows up to any events. Btw, Mr. ConCon? Really? Why him and not Vinnie who's taken a set off him recently (and brought the 2nd set to game 5). Yes, Mr. Concon took a set off ZeRo, but he got destroyed in the 2nd set (3-0).

 

[teddystalin]

I'm putting other because I'm counting out anyone who ZeRo has already beaten (Esam, Nairo, Mr. R). I feel like either Rain or Ranai have a higher chance. ZeRo himself said that Japanese players are highly skilled. Rain is the #1 ranked player in Japan and plays very similarly to ZeRo (mains the same characters too). Though Rain wins every tournament, he has never won a set off of Ranai. I'm more in favor of Ranai (has a better record against Rain and wins all the tourneys he goes to), but the problem is that he's the PPMD of Smash 4 where he rarely shows up to any events. Btw, Mr. ConCon? Really? Why him and not Vinnie who's taken a set off him recently (and brought the 2nd set to game 5). Yes, Mr. Concon took a set off ZeRo, but he got destroyed in the 2nd set (3-0).

Just, uh, basic fact checks here would have helped here.

Current Japanese Rankings: Smash 4 Power Rankings Directory Project

Japanese Results: Japanese Results Compendium

Rain has been on tilt for a while now. His rank (second, not first) is largely the result of legacy tournament wins. Most recently, he got 17th at Umebura F.A.T., the largest Japanese Sm4sh tournament to date. He's dropping sets to a lot of players he used to be considered well above: Songun (a G&W), Hayato (a Toon Link), Earth (the world's best Pit), and Abadango, who typically doesn't place highly in Japanese events. Edge, a Kansai region Sheik, is probably the better Sheik now.

Ranai, on the other hand, is absolutely not the PPMD of Japan - he's one of the few players to appear in both Kanto (Umebura) and Kansai (Sumabato) tournaments. Both regions are very strong - Kansai beat Kanto by a mere 2 stocks in their crew battle. Ranai regularly shows up to Kansai tournaments and reliably places top 8. However, he recently had a weak showing at Umebura F.A.T. as well - 13th after being eliminated by a relatively unknown Japanese Sheik. While he's looking like Japan's #1, he's still not on ZeRo's level in sheer consistency. He's kind of like the ESAM of Japan, really.

 

[Infinite901]

Btw, Mr. ConCon? Really? Why him and not Vinnie who's taken a set off him recently (and brought the 2nd set to game 5). Yes, Mr. Concon took a set off ZeRo, but he got destroyed in the 2nd set (3-0).

I made this not long before Paragon happened. And I included ConCon just because he has a history against ZeRo, which not many others can say.