Who Benefits the Most From Custom Moves?

[Glicnak]

With Evo allowing custom moves, I wonder what your opinions are about who this helps out most. Not necessarily which character is the strongest, but which character improves the most from being allowed to use custom moves?

Discuss away!

 

[Neoleo21]

Palutena, nuff said.

 

[AnchorTea]

Palutena, nuff said.

Some of Palutena's customs aren't as good as most people think.

Villager's customs are certainly a force to be dealt with. Especially counter tree.

 

[Neoleo21]

Some of Palutena's customs aren't as good as most people think.

Villager's customs are certainly a force to be dealt with. Especially counter tree.

If we're talking outright improvement, palutena's first from customs.

 

[Raijinken]

Palutena, Ganondorf, Ike, and Kirby all gain much needed capabilities with customs. Palutena probably makes the biggest jump in viability between Superspeed and Lightweight giving her all sorts of crazy combo and kill potential.

Not that anyone outright fails to benefit. Even Diddy can see some use from Battering Banana and Jigglypuff's Leaping Rest can be true-combo'd out of an uthrow.

 

[AnchorTea]

If we're talking outright improvement, palutena's first from customs.

*sigh* Palutena's stereotypes never end....

Palutena is perfectly fine with her default move set believe it or not.

Autoreticle- May seem very weak at first, but it can be used for spacing, baiting, and sometimes mindgame. It works very well for a spacy, reading, campy, and defensive character like Palutena. Explosive flame is good, but it doesn't fit too well with Palutena's playstyle, also its set a certain distance that isn't very far. Heavenly Light is just garbage honestly.

Reflect- Works very well for Palutena. It makes it even more unique due to the fact that you can move and perform an action while it's still up. It's perfect for mindgame and campy playstyle. Also it reflects, which is good. Angelic Missle is predictable. It only works well as a sideway recovery. Super Speed is only effective for combos.

Warp- Works well surprisingly. First off. It's faster than Zelda's Nayru's Love. You can be a real spacy character with this up special. You can also do this AT where you can warp off of a stage from sliding off of it from the warp. It removes the landing lag, and you can literally dodge everywhere in seconds with this AT in stages like battlefield. Jump Glide is good, but it is gimpable. Rocket Jump is awful in most situations. You have to be close to your opponent in order for the explosion to connect. It's terrible as a recovery, and it is very predictable as a gimp tool.

Counter- It's a counter (duh), which fits well with Palutena's playstyle. Celestial Firework is very good, but just like Rocket Jump, you have to be close. It's great move for reads though. Lightweight may seem very good since your fast as Caption Falcon, but it just doesn't fit well with Palutena. All her moves are meant for her playstyle, not a fast character.

Edit: Scratch that. Lightweight is very good for Palutena. It's the only good custom for Palutena IMO.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If by fine you mean bottom tier at worst and lower mid tier at absolute best.

 

[AnchorTea]

If by fine you mean bottom tier at worst and lower mid tier at absolute best.

May I ask why you think this?

 

[Firefoxx]

Palutena gets my vote as well. Lightweight and super speed give her quick combos and strong KO setups in a game where those things are very important. Its not that her other specials are bad, but those two really allow her to shine.

 

[Emblem Lord]

May I ask why you think this?

Her neutral tools are not that great. All her default specials have problems. Her tilts are bad. Her customs give her an actual cohesive gameplan and lets her moveset flow together.

Marth and Ike are same way.

Palutena is lucky. She can customize herself for any match-up in the game. If you want combos and damage she has lightweight and Super Speed. If you want to stop projectile based characters she has Reflect. Warp and Counter are good for stopping momentum based chars.

There is not a single character she cannot fight with customs on.

Palutena's default playstyle is meant to be patient and reactionary, but her tools don't allow for it. Her neutral simply isn't scary enough and she doesn't do enough damage.

 

[Raijinken]

May I ask why you think this?

It's because by default, she's an extremely defensive character, and not really a very good one. Reflect is only useful in a handful of situations, most of which never arise against high-level players. Autoreticle is also extremely limited in uses, as any running character will basically go right under it. Warp is great, Counter has some rare potential (doesn't happen much against high-level players). Her normals are alright, seeing as she can kill easy with uair and gets a fair from basically every dthrow.

But what she gets with customs goes so much further. Lightweight lets you juggle high-percent foes straight off the top with uair for minimal downside (you go slow when it wears off, but Superspeed overrides that slowness), and makes you one of the fastest characters in the game (I've seen no evidence suggesting it even makes you lighter). Superspeed lets you clank or break almost every attack, and can be transitioned into a jcus, or any aerial, and also makes a good recovery protector. Explosive Flame has decent coverage and knockback, but is still situational. Jumpglide can be attacked out of and gives excellent horizontal recovery (though Warp is still a very good move, that's largely preference), and Rocket Jump isn't terrible either.

Basically, with customs, she goes from being an unoutstanding defensive character to being an excellent aggressive chaser, while maintaining her shieldgrab into aerial combo (and gets more from it with Lightweight) and her B-move spam options. Few other characters even approach the level of improvement she gets, though no one denies that a lot of other characters get good options. But when she's a rarely-played favoritism pick while Villager's actually considered good in his own right, I personally can't say he benefits more than she does from customs.

 

[AnchorTea]

Her neutral tools are not that great. All her default specials have problems. Her tilts are bad. Her customs give her an actual cohesive gameplan and lets her moveset flow together.

Marth and Ike are same way.

Palutena is lucky. She can customize herself for any match-up in the game. If you want combos and damage she has lightweight and Super Speed. If you want to stop projectile based characters she has Reflect. Warp and Counter are good for stopping momentum based chars.

There is not a single character she cannot fight with customs on.

Palutena's default playstyle is meant to be patient and reactionary, but her tools don't allow for it. Her neutral simply isn't scary enough and she doesn't do enough damage.

Side tilt is good at stopping rolls, and it last a nice length. It's not meant for aggressive playstyle. Up tilt isn't meant for aggressive style either, it can also kill in high %'s. Her down tilt is possibly the worst. I honestly still can't think of anything effective with her down tilt.

Her Neutrals fit her playstyle perfectly. She's meant to be patient, like you said. She's not meant to be aggressive. Her Lightweight is good, but it's not the only good thing about Palutena. Her defaults may not me flashy as people would expect, but that doesn't mean they're bad.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Allowing the use of custom specials can help out Rosalina, since Luma Warp and Shooting Star Bit are quite useful. Also, Guardian Luma would help Rosalina against the fighters who don't have any projectiles.

 

[AnchorTea]

It's because by default, she's an extremely defensive character, and not really a very good one. Reflect is only useful in a handful of situations, most of which never arise against high-level players. Autoreticle is also extremely limited in uses, as any running character will basically go right under it. Warp is great, Counter has some rare potential (doesn't happen much against high-level players). Her normals are alright, seeing as she can kill easy with uair and gets a fair from basically every dthrow.

But what she gets with customs goes so much further. Lightweight lets you juggle high-percent foes straight off the top with uair for minimal downside (you go slow when it wears off, but Superspeed overrides that slowness), and makes you one of the fastest characters in the game (I've seen no evidence suggesting it even makes you lighter). Superspeed lets you clank or break almost every attack, and can be transitioned into a jcus, or any aerial, and also makes a good recovery protector. Explosive Flame has decent coverage and knockback, but is still situational. Jumpglide can be attacked out of and gives excellent horizontal recovery (though Warp is still a very good move, that's largely preference), and Rocket Jump isn't terrible either.

Basically, with customs, she goes from being an unoutstanding defensive character to being an excellent aggressive chaser, while maintaining her shieldgrab into aerial combo (and gets more from it with Lightweight) and her B-move spam options. Few other characters even approach the level of improvement she gets, though no one denies that a lot of other characters get good options. But when she's a rarely-played favoritism pick while Villager's actually considered good in his own right, I personally can't say he benefits more than she does from customs.

Villager kinda does actually. The counter tree, pushy loid, and (I forgot the name) the one where you can make a flower appear on a characters head are a bit overpowered.

 

[ZomBiehn]

I competed against a donkey Kong with customs on in a tourney and he had a up B that was soooooo annoying to deal with

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Olimar vs reflectors. Or in doubles. Or before that moves gets banned.

I think everyone gets something out of custom moves. I, for one, look forward to ZSS's side B being useful (i.e. having a reason to use it vs zair).

 

[Firefoxx]

Palutena was essentially built from the ground up with customs in mind. Like her announcement trailer shows off all of her customs AND she has all of them unlocked from the start. Her playstyle is completely customizable which is why she's going to be really good in the customs meta. And the great thing about customs is that if you like her playstyle with all of her regular specials, you can play her with all regular specials. You have that power!

 

[AnchorTea]

*sigh* Palutena's stereotypes never end....

Palutena is perfectly fine with her default move set believe it or not.

Autoreticle- May seem very weak at first, but it can be used for spacing, baiting, and sometimes mindgame. It works very well for a spacy, reading, campy, and defensive character like Palutena. Explosive flame is good, but it doesn't fit too well with Palutena's playstyle, also its set a certain distance that isn't very far. Heavenly Light is just garbage honestly.

Reflect- Works very well for Palutena. It makes it even more unique due to the fact that you can move and perform an action while it's still up. It's perfect for mindgame and campy playstyle. Also it reflects, which is good. Angelic Missle is predictable. It only works well as a sideway recovery. Super Speed is only effective for combos.

Warp- Works well surprisingly. First off. It's faster than Zelda's Nayru's Love. You can be a real spacy character with this up special. You can also do this AT where you can warp off of a stage from sliding off of it from the warp. It removes the landing lag, and you can literally dodge everywhere in seconds with this AT in stages like battlefield. Jump Glide is good, but it is gimpable. Rocket Jump is awful in most situations. You have to be close to your opponent in order for the explosion to connect. It's terrible as a recovery, and it is very predictable as a gimp tool.

Counter- It's a counter (duh), which fits well with Palutena's playstyle. Celestial Firework is very good, but just like Rocket Jump, you have to be close. It's great move for reads though. Lightweight may seem very good since your fast as Caption Falcon, but it just doesn't fit well with Palutena. All her moves are meant for her playstyle, not a fast character.

Edit: Scratch that. Lightweight is very good for Palutena. It's the only good custom for Palutena IMO.

Well, I regret making this post.

 

[ProjectilePuff]

Villager's big tree is stronger than Mike Tyson.

 

[AnchorTea]

Villager's big tree is stronger than Mike Tyson.

Or Mr. Sandman.

 

[ProjectilePuff]

Or Mr. Sandman.

It'll definitely bring you a treat, but it's surprisingly still not as strong as Ganondorf's backhand warlock punch.

Infact, none of the warlock punch custom moves are stronger than the default... odd...

 

[Doruge]

benefits more than Palutena. Goes from bottom 3 to top 3

 

[Raijinken]

It'll definitely bring you a treat, but it's surprisingly still not as strong as Ganondorf's backhand warlock punch.

Infact, none of the warlock punch custom moves are stronger than the default... odd...

Warlock Blade instabreaks shields. That's the main draw of it (besides range).

 

[HeavyLobster]

Infact, none of the warlock punch custom moves are stronger than the default... odd...

What were you expecting, Brawl Minus Punch that does 666%? It's hard to get stronger than default.

 

[Sodo]

I don't have his customs, but I've heard that MK benefits immensely from customs. Any truth to that?

 

[Raijinken]

I don't have his customs, but I've heard that MK benefits immensely from customs. Any truth to that?

Side B 2 (Drill Rush, I think it's called) is pretty good. Faster and further version of default that can't be directed. Aside from that, the rest is situational.

 

[warriorman222]

What were you expecting, Brawl Minus Punch that does 666%? It's hard to get stronger than default.

Well I was expecting them to change the damage to 616 to accurate represent the concept correctly.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Doesn't also madly benefit from customs? He can have amazingly safe recovery with Fly High and Dragon Rush, and have great anti air spacing with Rock Hurl. Flamebreath is probably best out of all neutral B specials though.

also has some sexy customs that might safe him as well. Focussed Slap and Kong Cyclone are awesome. Lightning Punch also could have his uses against heavy projectile spammers.

 

[Boigahs]

I'd say everyone benefits. I think a good portion of custom moves are just up for preference. Very few characters have custom moves that are definitely better. I also believe that most people won't change their custom movesets much, and pick their moves mostly by preference. There might be one move people will change depending on match-up conditions, but I don't think Palutena players will be swapping moves left and right each match, for instance.
I'm still worried that custom moves will screw up the meta-game, but ideally they'll be really cool and benefit everyone.