Who are the Toughest to Train Against? CPU or Humans

[Wolfen McGunz]

So what do you guys think?

For as long as I've been a smasher, I've always scoffed at the CPU, and thought that real skill primarily is gained from playing people.

However it seems that Wii U Smash's CPU is a lot tougher - even more so than a some online opponents on FG. But that being said, it's mainly because the CPU has near perfect reaction to almost every attack, but the CPU isn't smart enough to bait, camp, or use any other strategy used to win a match.

Humans are tough when it comes to strategy, but they are flawed beings and can mess up, or can be tricked by playing mind games with them.

My conclusion is this: Both are good to train against, CPU's will help you with trying to achieve near perfect attacks, and trying to avoid their attacks/counter attacks. Humans are great to learn new strategies from.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Humans are generally better to train against. For one, they utilize attacks way more than just for attacking purposes. I mean gimping a CPU level 9 Ike isn't even a problem because the computer doesn't use Quick Draw (his side b) to return to the stage whereas an actual player would do that. CPUs also follow very predictable patterns, so you can predict when they will jump or use an attack much easier than you will find against a human. On top of this, the higher level CPUs seem to be pretty much frame perfect when it comes to evading attacks. They can perfect shield almost anything, and airdodge EVERYTHING you throw at them. You can't learn anything from never being able to follow up on your attacks. Plus I believe there are specific algorithms that they follow for DI, so when they're hit they will follow a specific trajectory each time (though this isn't proven, but to my knowledge it's true) making follow ups easier to predict. Humans are less predictable, opening your mind up to new styles and techniques, but can also be conditioned, baited, etc. Ultimately, human players are better to play against. You'll go up against defensive players, offensive players, spacey players, spammers, and so many others. You'll learn more this way than going up against a pre-programmed CPU.

 

[Wolfen McGunz]

Humans are generally better to train against. For one, they utilize attacks way more than just for attacking purposes. I mean gimping a CPU level 9 Ike isn't even a problem because the computer doesn't use Quick Draw (his side b) to return to the stage whereas an actual player would do that. CPUs also follow very predictable patterns, so you can predict when they will jump or use an attack much easier than you will find against a human. On top of this, the higher level CPUs seem to be pretty much frame perfect when it comes to evading attacks. They can perfect shield almost anything, and airdodge EVERYTHING you throw at them. You can't learn anything from never being able to follow up on your attacks. Plus I believe there are specific algorithms that they follow for DI, so when they're hit they will follow a specific trajectory each time (though this isn't proven, but to my knowledge it's true) making follow ups easier to predict. Humans are less predictable, opening your mind up to new styles and techniques, but can also be conditioned, baited, etc. Ultimately, human players are better to play against. You'll go up against defensive players, offensive players, spacey players, spammers, and so many others. You'll learn more this way than going up against a pre-programmed CPU.

Hmm... Very true

 

[Mysteltainn]

I find the CPU straight-up annoying with their spot-on reflexes to seemingly everything. I find myself resorting to extraordinarily cheap tactics to defeat them that aren't realistic in even the slightest manner vs humans. Even lv 9s are just cheap, and not helpful aside from very basic tactics and will not use all of the skills in their arsenal to their advantage like a human can. It's for this reason that I avoid the CPUs like the plague unless I NEED to beat them in events and such.

Humans are always the better and more challenging option that will keep you thinking of ways to improve. If you play FG enough, or even friends IRL and / or tournaments... Or heck, even just watch pros in tournaments, you'll find that one person may stomp someone utterly in the first match against them (or vice versa) and then in the next one, they think of different tactics to counter the victor and may stomp them instead. This vastly improves our knowledge depth because it teaches us different ways to play and approach with our characters under different circumstances; the CPU I find simply isn't capable of this.

 

[misterOWAIN33]

I have to agree with everyone else on this. The CPU's are annoying with their predictability AND their un-human reflexes. When I get frustrated with CPU's, I go back to the fact that they are computers, and if they wanted to, Nintendo could have made them literally unbeatable because they are just that: computers. They know every one of your moves the instant you press the buttons, whereas humans don't. I find humans more enjoyable to play against, as well as more challenging.

 

[Ryuji]

In my experience the cpu's have been having their difficulty increased with each new iteration of Smash. However, for reasons others have already covered, ultimately their predictability is their own undoing. While their preternatural reflexes give them an unfair advantage, nothing beats a human player of uncommon skill, who can foresee and manipulate the battle to achieve the desired outcome with the knowledge of the mechanics and tech of the game. Cpu's can't do this and because of that I don't think level 9 cpu's are an accurate way to determine your own skill level let alone be a decent sparring partner. Human players are tougher solely because of our learning capabilities and unpredictability.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Humans are better players. LVL 9 CPU do detect button inputs and cheat, but if you are just playing to win... it's very easy to do. Using the same strategy against a human... not as much.

 

[simpleglitch]

The word 'training' in the question makes this a bit tricky. If your prepping for tournaments, the best way to go is obviously against human opponents.

However, if we are talking raw difficulty, I haven't found anything tougher that an Level 50 Luigi Amiibo in a 1.5x speed special smash (but it depends on what character I'm playing, he can be cheesed with charizard's fsmash).

 

[Lugihui]

Humans, CPU's are just using cheap moves so you feel bad about it, also they are computers they don't understand you. Humans in the other hand the have the skill of you.

 

[Zeriora]

I find humans in for glory very stupid. CPU's air dodge, does every tech they can to beat you.
On the other hand, SMART competetive humans, are pure awesome to train against. Went from being a Crappy for glory meta knight to a competetive Meta knight.

 

[Wolfen McGunz]

I find humans in for glory very stupid. CPU's air dodge, does every tech they can to beat you.
On the other hand, SMART competetive humans, are pure awesome to train against. Went from being a Crappy for glory meta knight to a competetive Meta knight.

I know what you mean, I've beaten some top tiered characters by skilled opponents with Charizard.

 

[stancosmos]

If your goal in training is to get good in tournaments, and beat other human players, than the best way to train is against humans. If your goal is to beat a high lvl cpu, than the best way to train is playing against CPUs.

 

[16bit]

Humans indefinitely. I don't think im gonna walk into a tournament and see a cpu beat ZeRo.

 

[Goolloom]

Playing with other people is definately the best way to train and refine techniques with your main or subs because of the inconsistency of people, they'll all have different playstyles and adapt to yours and vice-versa.

The Lv9 CPUs on the other hand have easily countered preset patterns and read inputs to have frame perfect rolls and airdodges that make you unable to follow up anything and are just not efficient training at all. The CPU's kinda forces you to go defensive because of their 100% frame perfect punish game that no human can reproduce, and are completely clueless when it comes to offensive moves and tactics.

On a side note, some Lv 9 CPU characters are also just stupid and they do things no human would do, other than the frame perfect stuff. Like Ness ALWAYS recovering low with PK thunder to sweet spot the ledge, even at 25%, Rosalina doesn't angle the Launch Star at all and don't know how Luma works, Donkey Kong always going for Down B spikes and Little Mac having a set timer on how long they keep the KO Punch and end up throwing it out at nothing.