Who are the characters that suffer from game design oversight?

[Gatoray]

I'm not saying the whole game was designed poorly, it really looks very well made! However, as we are starting to see through character specific glitches and mechanics, we can't deny that some characters have been neglected a bit during the testing phase. Anyone remember the flaws with Zelda and G&W in Melee? Or the strange grab-release shenanigans with the PK kids in Brawl? Which characters do you think are suffering from game design oversights? (design oversight does not necessarily mean low tier.)

Edit: I'm not talking about your opinions on clone characters. Try to keep subjective discussion to a minimum.

 

[Raijinken]

Ganondorf, from a series-representation stance, shouldn't be a clone at this point. Toon Link as well has had more than enough time and games to de-clone his special moves.

Otherwise, I think the game is pretty well-designed by now. We don't even have the glaring discrepancies between slow and fast characters any more (or at least not on as bad a scale).

 

[Fluggerson]

Ganondorf, yes. Peach too. They reworked ZSS's Final Smash from being the worse to one of the best, and look at Peaches; it's the same crappy Final Smash, Yes, no one is gonna use Final Smashes, but still kinda weird.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Not sure why people are saying Ganondorf. He looks completely amazing with all the hit stun added in. Unless we are talking about visually and attack animations. Then I would say yeah he still is cloned. Still not bad. Maybe Pikachu would be my pick.

 

[Jexulus]

All of Mega Man's attacking specials and his Dair are absolutely terrible. His Metal Blades are easily caught and used against him through air-dodging, and has terrible damage output and range to show for it. Even attacking in eight directions is useless, because coupled with its start-up lag, its diagonal paths are air-dodge bait, up is better covered by Air Shooter, downwards just sticks in the ground uselessly, and left and right are much better left to his pellets and charge shot. Completely useless.

And don't get me started on everything else.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Yoshi is one glitchy mother ****er.

 

[ErenJager]

Toon Link

He could have been decloned, with a move set that incorporated Skull Hammer, Mirror Shield, Deku Leaf, Bombchu.
He could have had alt costumes with the Minish Cap and Outset attire.
His final smash could have been Bow-Wow.

Ganondorf

He could have had his move set changed to incorporate abilities from his series, like magic and his sword.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

As people have said, Toon Link and Ganondorf because they could easily be made not clones. Same with Dark Pit.

 

[Gatoray]

Guys, I'm not talking about your opinions on clone characters, I'm talking about flawed mechanics in a character's moveset or movement options. Ganondorf may still be a clone, but what matters for discussion is whether he has broken or useless moves, etc.

Like Melee G&W, most of his aerials are non L-cancellable for some reason despite every other character being able to L-cancel. These are the kind of things I'm talking about.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Robin's limited sword/tomes. It adds nothing to his gameplay and only restricts him.

 

[Arti]

Almost all of Mega Man's moves have some sort of major flaw that greatly hinders their usefulness. Even if they're still good, they're very much limited by these flaws.

Metal Blade can be caught, Crash Bomb can be completely destroyed by shielding it, Leaf Shield, so many of his normals have really long recovery...

 

[Weavile's Wrath]

Megaman is terrible. 3 of his four specials I never use. DAir is too hard to hit with, UTilt, USmash, DSmash, and FSmash have bad end lag, and I hate that he doesn't have unique a unique NAir or FTilt. I mostly end up using his pellets, FAir, Bair, DA, and DTilt. Everything else is useless.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

It took them 3 games to make Zelda decent. I think she needs an overhaul. Seriously her whole design is arguably an oversight.

As for glitches, Yoshi's special moves are messed up. Even one of his default specials already has a glitch found for it.

 

[Weavile's Wrath]

It took them 3 games to make Zelda decent. I think she needs an overhaul. Seriously her whole design is arguably an oversight.

As for glitches, Yoshi's special moves are messed up. Even one of his default specials already has a glitch found for it.

To be fair though, one could argue it's taken longer for Yoshi to get good.

 

[Morbi]

Mega Man. To make the pellets seamless, he had to use the pellets for Mega Man's n-air, f-tilt, and jab. The pellets are already not that great, but the mere fact that they take up three of his potential moves is disturbing to say the least.

Leaf Shield is also worthless, I thought it would work similarly to how... well similar moves worked. However, it does not. It is not a good shield, it is not a good pressure tool, and you cannot act out of it unless you grab the opponent.

For a projectile character, his projectiles are really repugnant. The side-special can be blocked after it actually connects, or it could be passed back to Mega Man becoming a detriment to himself. The neutral projectile can be caught by the enemy... that is bad design, obviously.

I am not sure about his KO moves because I do not play him a lot. But his up-tilt has a ton of ending lag. If you whiff is up-smash or down-smash, you are extremely vulnerable.

Overall, I am not too fond of him.

 

[K-45]

Megaman really needs a buff in this game he has decent airgame and rush cancel. But his pellets do like 1 damage and has bad ending lag. Also leaf shield might be the most worthless move in the game...

 

[TypePositive]

I'm bad at describing things like this but I'll give it a shot. I can't understand all the megaman hate because I absolutely slaughter the cpu with him. I honestly can't wait for the full release to see if all the stuff that I use with him exploit the cpu patterns or if mega is secretly awesome. The main problem with mega is that if he gets hit, he's dead. So just don't get hit.

 

[Arti]

Oh, another thing about Mega Man: His pellets have more recovery time than hitstun, meaning they're unsafe on hit. There's a way to circumvent this, but it's still a major inconvenience.

I can't understand all the megaman hate because I absolutely slaughter the cpu with him.

The CPU can be absolutely slaughtered by any character, not just him.

 

[TypePositive]

Megaman is also not meant to be a projectile charatacter. I don't know the terminology to say what he is suppose to be but he isn't a camper. The projectiles are important, but it's not important that they actually hit, if you know what I mean. Megaman is one of those characters that is just meant to be annoying as hell. Every one of his moves is just there to to make the other guy mess up and go over the edge. The problem comes when people try to play megaman like marth or fox. I don't think mega is going to be anywhere near the best character in the game, but someone is going to figure out how to use him well enough to pull wins out of no here becase that seems to be megamans trick.

 

[K-45]

Megaman is also not meant to be a projectile charatacter. I don't know the terminology to say what he is suppose to be but he isn't a camper. The projectiles are important, but it's not important that they actually hit, if you know what I mean. Megaman is one of those characters that is just meant to be annoying as hell. Every one of his moves is just there to to make the other guy mess up and go over the edge. The problem comes when people try to play megaman like marth or fox.

U are right he is annoying to fight but that's not what we are saying. He has little damage out put a ton of lag on most of his moves. LEAF SHIELD only hinders megaman when he uses it for the most part. Megaman is a intresting character but he's almost to gimmicky about spaming items that can back fire.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

Toon Link

He could have been decloned, with a move set that incorporated Skull Hammer, Mirror Shield, Deku Leaf, Bombchu.
He could have had alt costumes with the Minish Cap and Outset attire.
His final smash could have been Bow-Wow.

This is a bit late, but whatever. Toon Link is fine. It's the playstyle that defines the character, not the moveset. Toon Link is a lot more suited to campish strategies with his projectiles, whereas Link will usually just want to get up close. While TL being decloned could have been really cool, I don't think it was necessary. And most tournaments don't use items, so the Final Smashes aren't really important to a lot of people.

But Leaf Shield kind of sucks. I'm not sure how it wasn't removed after testing .

 

[TypePositive]

My point is that the items aren't spammable. Leaf shield is totally useless. I'm not saying he's good, but having played only 5 characters against the computer and ****ty friends, it impossible to discount MM just yet. From the way too much I've played with him, Mega seems to rely on pinpoint controls to be anywhere near decent so I imagine he will perform better on the wiiu than the ds. His custom specials also seem much better so they will have to be looked at to seem if they are allowable in tournys I suppose.

 

[Fathom778]

Some of the characters flash invisible for a few frames. Most common is Rosalina.

 

[K-45]

My point is that the items aren't spammable. Leaf shield is totally useless. I'm not saying he's good, but having played only 5 characters against the computer and ****ty friends, it impossible to discount MM just yet. From the way too much I've played with him, Mega seems to rely on pinpoint controls to be anywhere near decent so I imagine he will perform better on the wiiu than the ds. His custom specials also seem much better so they will have to be looked at to seem if they are allowable in tournys I suppose.

I do agree with u there megaman is one of few characters that should be allowed to use custom moves in competitive play. Seeing his cusTom moves nome of them are real upgrades from his default but I got the feeling in tourneys just all custom moves will be locked. I hope they update the game to atleast make leaf shield kind of useful.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Mario, Luigi and Dr.Mario

Why would you play them in a competitive environment?

 

[Deathcarter]

Mega Man's Leaf Shield is frickin' horrible! His general design is already impractical and gimmicky but that piece of crap Leaf Shield is on a whole nother level of fail. How it even got past testing I'll never know.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Some of the characters flash invisible for a few frames. Most common is Rosalina.

The invisible teleport flashing during Rosalina and Palutena's rolls can't be considered an oversight when it was put in on purpose.

 

[Gatoray]

The invisible teleport flashing during Rosalina and Palutena can't be considered an oversight when it was put in on purpose.

Finally someone who actually understands what I really mean when I say "design oversight."

 

[TypePositive]

You didn't provide any examples and mst people haven't even played the game so you can't really blame people for complaining about megaman and things they don't like. The leaf shield totally sucks though

 

[Yodude57]

Mario, Luigi and Dr.Mario

Why would you play them in a competitive environment?

Could you please explain why someone would not play them in a competitive environment?

 

[Storm Eagle]

Robin's limited sword/tomes. It adds nothing to his gameplay and only restricts him.

He would be too good otherwise.

 

[Kenith]

As someone pointed out, yes, Yoshi is one glitchy ************.
Also something already pointed out, Mega Man has some huge flaws, though this isn't necessarily related to glitches or oversights.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Poor man Wario suffers exclusively from an oversight.

 

[hotdogturtle]

He would be too good otherwise.

Why? Why can't he be like a regular sword+magic user who uses different things for different moves? It's not like every move HAS to be the same like every other FE character.

I realize that this isn't an "oversight" (I must have missed that word in the title the first time I posted), but I still consider it an intentional bad design.

 

[Severn]

Megaman, for all the reasons stated above, and Wario, poor guy still has the grab release thing.

 

[guedes the brawler]

robin, rosalina and lucina. they are playable in smash; pretty big design flaw.

 

[Knife Myths]

Why? Why can't he be like a regular sword+magic user who uses different things for different moves? It's not like every move HAS to be the same like every other FE character.

That would necessitate making his specials weaker, though. It's a design choice that makes them more unique and more true to the source game. Just don't spam.

 

[CaptainKirby]

Megaman, for all the reasons stated above, and Wario, poor guy still has the grab release thing.

Wait, seriously? Wario STILL has that grab release shenanigan? Ohhhhh, **** biscuits...

 

[ScubaGoomba]

If I understand you correctly, to take an inverse look at this, it seems like a prior design oversight was corrected in splitting Zelda and Sheik. The two were meant to compliment one another: Sheik accumulating damage quickly and Zelda having the strong finishers. In effect, Zelda's height and weight combined with difficulty in landing a lot of her finishers made it much more effective to simply stay as Sheik, who had more than enough options on her own, than to switch between the two.

Most of the design oversights I've seen have been based around "balancing" factors that bring a character down in the end. Yoshi's lack of a third jump despite invincibility flutter-frames and any of the Mighty Glaciers, whose lack of speed makes the increased weight and power mean very little as damage racks up (although this looks to be moving towards a better direction with invincibility frames and Rage Effect in play), show some flawed design choices that are balanced on paper, but not in practice.

 

[APC99]

There's a lot of hate for Mega Man here... After playing countless hours of him, I'd say that he's powerful. Leaf Shield's great for spacing, as does Crash Bomb. Using the pellets isn't supposed to be a powerful move, it's simply there for easily racking up damage. His aerials are amazing too.

As for characters... Yoshi, Dedede and Wario aren't looking so good with their glitches.