Where would you rank Roy?

[Spoice]

I'm seeing a lot of mixed opinions on Roy. Some say he's amazing and should be in the top tier along with chars like pikachu and ness, while others say he's not all that, and other sword dudes like shulk are betters. So where would you rank him? 1st? 5th? last?

 

[Solutionme]

Somewhere around the top of high tiers, maybe 10th? He's basically Captain Falcon just without the auto-cancel uair and wall jump and spike. Sure someone else would be willing to go in deeper. If it is any reconciliation though, I only feel he is around 10th because he has no projectile and is a fast faller with a mediocre recovery, but everything else is on point.

Edit: Roy has a spike obviously, just not that consistent as Captain Falcon or as safe.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Well... as a Shulk main and a Roy-in-training, I have to say that Roy is far better then Shulk. Roy just has better frame data, a better moveset and stronger smashes.

Roy, however, is definetly not top tier. One reason being that he does not have a spammable projectile. and another being his sub-par recovery and predictable approach options. He also has the problem of being walled out by projectiles, as his dash attack and grab are not nearly as good as CF and he is slower then CF too.

On the other hand... His smashes are as strong as Marths and his aerial and punish games are great. As well as his movement speed and plethora of true combos.

I would probably rate Roy as top of Mid tier or bottom of high tier, or 19th/20th.

 

[Gawain]

It's generally agreed upon that Roy is more or less tied with Captain Falcon. So, top 15ish.

Personally, I think he is about a slot or two above Falcon though.

 

[Solutionme]

It's generally agreed upon that Roy is more or less tied with Captain Falcon. So, top 15ish.

Personally, I think he is about a slot or two above Falcon though.

Same way I feel honestly, if Captain Falcon actually had a better special in his neutral b, I could see him being higher than Roy, but it's far too iconic. Same for Ganon's Warlock Punch, all that super armor doesn't justify how slow it is.

Edit: Also Roy just has better shield pressure, I've on many occasions broken shields with double-edge dance after hitting my opponent's shield and conditioning them.

 

[Gawain]

Same way I feel honestly, if Captain Falcon actually had a better special in his neutral b, I could see him being higher than Roy, but it's far too iconic. Same for Ganon's Warlock Punch, all that super armor doesn't justify how slow it is.

Edit: Also Roy just has better shield pressure, I've on many occasions broken shields with double-edge dance after hitting my opponent's shield and conditioning them.

The shield pressure is the #1 reason I would put Roy above Falcon. Falcon's bair is one of the best moves in the game on shield, no doubt about that, it's crazy good. BUT, Roy has jab, nair, and dtilt, two of which are actually POSITIVE on shield, something that less than 10 characters can boast to have even ONE move with that property. Roy's coverage of ledge getups is extraordinarily good, one of the best in the game, and Captain Falcon is just okay at it.

Captain and Roy are equal to each other. Roy goes above Falcon in my book because the shield pressure he has lets him deal with more of the top tier guys better than Falcon can. That being said, Roy has a lot of bad matchups vs lesser used characters, and Falcon doesn't really have that problem. Characters like Marth, Lucina and Ike all give Roy significant trouble. To the point that I'll actually switch out most of the time. Falcon really only suffers to the same degree to Olimar and Kirby. Maybe pikachu too. If Marth specifically keeps getting buffed up I'd probably put Falcon above Roy by a bit. Marth still has a long ways to go till I say he's better than either of them though, he struggles too much vs all of the best characters.

 

[Yaya Haider]

Though to to be fair it's still pretty early in Roy's meta to judge him. I mean we all know he has potential, but we don't really know that much about him. I'm not saying were clueless but. I'm just saying that tiers change all the time, he's only a month old, and the game is fairly new it's self. Plus with the balance updates as well. This is why i don't really like tier lists about Sm4sh right now. But as of now? I would maybe out him in A- highest or B lowest.

 

[Solutionme]

The shield pressure is the #1 reason I would put Roy above Falcon. Falcon's bair is one of the best moves in the game on shield, no doubt about that, it's crazy good. BUT, Roy has jab, nair, and dtilt, two of which are actually POSITIVE on shield, something that less than 10 characters can boast to have even ONE move with that property. Roy's coverage of ledge getups is extraordinarily good, one of the best in the game, and Captain Falcon is just okay at it.

Captain and Roy are equal to each other. Roy goes above Falcon in my book because the shield pressure he has lets him deal with more of the top tier guys better than Falcon can. That being said, Roy has a lot of bad matchups vs lesser used characters, and Falcon doesn't really have that problem. Characters like Marth, Lucina and Ike all give Roy significant trouble. To the point that I'll actually switch out most of the time. Falcon really only suffers to the same degree to Olimar and Kirby. Maybe pikachu too. If Marth specifically keeps getting buffed up I'd probably put Falcon above Roy by a bit. Marth still has a long ways to go till I say he's better than either of them though, he struggles too much vs all of the best characters.

Don't even me remind me of Captain Falcon vs. Olimar, bad enough that olimar has good projectiles.

 

[Gawain]

Don't even me remind me of Captain Falcon vs. Olimar, bad enough that olimar has good projectiles.

Olimar's dtilt on Captain Falcon is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in any fighting game ever. He gets basically a free 30-50 percent. So dumb. And Captain can't even grab him 90 percent of the time. Makes me want to gouge my eyes.

 

[Solutionme]

Olimar's dtilt on Captain Falcon is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in any fighting game ever. He gets basically a free 30-50 percent. So dumb. And Captain can't even grab him 90 percent of the time. Makes me want to gouge my eyes.

Even if people don't want to admit it, I feel Olimar is secretly in the range of a high tier to a top tier. He's able to recover his main tool so quickly like Rosa, and like her, do well without it, which btw he has a better recovery without it. Not to mention he is small and racks up damage quick. I'd be happy to see a end frame nerf on his pluck.

 

[GoldenMasterSword]

I'd rank Roy anywhere in 10-15. He's really strong, deceptively fast, and just satisfying to play as. I feel as though there's nothing really wrong with his design. They pretty much nailed it when they wanted him back in but way better than in Melee.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You guys overrate projectiles.

Is blocking not a thing for you guys?

Roy doesnt give a damn about projectiles.

 

[Solutionme]

You guys overrate projectiles.

Is blocking not a thing for you guys?

Roy doesnt give a damn about projectiles.

Yeah, but just having one lets you camp, even if it is really bad like the Clown Cannon. Don't get me wrong though, I still don't think it is much of an issue for Roy anyways, especially when he can camp using flare blade and that isn't even a projectile.

 

[shotgunraptorjesus]

Top 15, for reasons stated above since Roy really is a better version of Captain Falcon, although I wouldn't put Roy that much further above him

 

[Gawain]

You guys overrate projectiles.

Is blocking not a thing for you guys?

Roy doesnt give a damn about projectiles.

I dunno about that. Luigi's projectile is still an issue for Roy. For most projectiles I agree, but some of the better projectiles in the game can cause problems.

 

[Solutionme]

I dunno about that. Luigi's projectile is still an issue for Roy. For most projectiles I agree, but some of the better projectiles in the game can cause problems.

You shouldn't worry about Luigi considering his projectile isn't meant to zone. Perfect shielding it isn't too hard anyways. Should worry more about the ones that keep a charge or force you to stay on the defensive like Samus' Charge Shot and Sheik's needles.

 

[Mightyno.M]

Right next to marth and Charizard

At highish tier like top 10/15-25 l

 

[Solutionme]

Right next to marth and Charizard

At highish tier like top 10/15-25 l

Tons of characters seem to be getting there, which is a good sign that the game might be completely balanced in the next 3 to 4 patches.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I believe he's better than both the pits and falcon, so that should give you an idea where.

 

[Deleted member]

I need to work on my Roy, but I think he's in the low or middle part of high tier.

 

[Comorant]

He's a more consistent Marth with worse range and frame data but an actual grab game and ridiculous pay-off on reads. Probably in the same boat as stuff like Mega Man and Greninja and sitting in has the same "All the mid tier is on par with some of the less dominating high tier characters" situation going on.

 

[FUEGO!]

A Skilled Roy can beat any Sheik.

 

[SpiritofSpeed]

I would put Roy somewhere around the top 10s. Since downloading him he's quickly become my swordfighter main. Flare Blade can be a really effective attack in battle.

 

[pershona]

Somewhere in the Mid tier probably.

 

[MarioMeteor]

He's definitely not top tier, but he's without a doubt high tier. Probably above Falcon but below Mario.

 

[Chalice]

We can't say for sure whether Roy isn't top tier worthy since no notable players actually try to place with him nor do we have any up and coming players.

For now, I'd say it's safe to assume he's in the top levels of mid tier

 

[Bobert]

I think he'll be somewhere in mid tier. He seems very overrated right now and often compared to Falcon despite being nothing like him besides being fast and having a bad recovery so I don't really know where this whole "Falcon with a sword but better!" thing comes from. He doesn't feel like Falcon at all and has a worse combo game. Maybe I'm wrong about him being mid tier though. I'm not a smash genius.

 

[Lady Kuki]

I have no clue, I guess mid to high mid tier. No one has gotten any significant results, and I don't want to overrate him so...

 

[Shadow_13]

It's generally agreed upon that Roy is more or less tied with Captain Falcon. So, top 15ish.

Personally, I think he is about a slot or two above Falcon though.

Roy is just Captain Falcon with sword

 

[smokebomb12]

Low high tier.

 

[MagiusNecros]

High Mid/Low High

 

[Gawain]

Roy is just Captain Falcon with sword

I've actually since severely taken back what I said in that post lol. The whole "Captain Falcon with a sword" thing is not really true at all, if one is playing Roy better. I think Roy is top 20 still (probably not top 15, but potentially so) though. Allow me to expand.

Captain Falcon's style is based more around reads and baiting your opponent into doing something punishable using his overwhelming speed and dash grab. He uses other tools like bair and up air to help, but that's his gameplan for the most part. Weave around your opponent till you get your chance.

Now, the way I see it, optimal Roy play is nothing like that. Roy is a character that slowly moves up into his maximum range and likes to keep it there, using spaced out nairs, fairs, jabs, dtilts and ftilts to harry your opponent, and keep pushing them. All of these moves are quite safe when used properly, giving Roy a significantly more difficult to guess neutral than Captain Falcon. Captain Falcon doesn't want to sit around in neutral: his opponents know what he wants to go for and he just has to get it. Roy's neutral is much more difficult to pull apart. He has much more varied confirms than Captain Falcon, and has a much easier time applying constant pressure. Roy likes to grab like Falcon, but his grab isn't nearly as fast and so he has to be more careful about when he goes for it. Captain Falcon's best kill setups all start from his up air and throws, so he fishes for these quite hard, while Roy's kill setups tend to come from his sour aerials, his jabs, or his low-hitting moves like dtilt, which setup for a read to kill with blazer/tilts etc.

Honestly, the only thing Roy and Captain Falcon have in common is that they both have a good grab game and they both have good punish games. But you can say that about many characters, that's like saying "Sheik is Captain Falcon with a projectiles" or something like that. Not sure why I ever thought that in the first place lol.

 

[Bobert]

I've actually since severely taken back what I said in that post lol. The whole "Captain Falcon with a sword" thing is not really true at all, if one is playing Roy better. I think Roy is top 20 still (probably not top 15, but potentially so) though. Allow me to expand.

Captain Falcon's style is based more around reads and baiting your opponent into doing something punishable using his overwhelming speed and dash grab. He uses other tools like bair and up air to help, but that's his gameplan for the most part. Weave around your opponent till you get your chance.

Now, the way I see it, optimal Roy play is nothing like that. Roy is a character that slowly moves up into his maximum range and likes to keep it there, using spaced out nairs, fairs, jabs, dtilts and ftilts to harry your opponent, and keep pushing them. All of these moves are quite safe when used properly, giving Roy a significantly more difficult to guess neutral than Captain Falcon. Captain Falcon doesn't want to sit around in neutral: his opponents know what he wants to go for and he just has to get it. Roy's neutral is much more difficult to pull apart. He has much more varied confirms than Captain Falcon, and has a much easier time applying constant pressure. Roy likes to grab like Falcon, but his grab isn't nearly as fast and so he has to be more careful about when he goes for it. Captain Falcon's best kill setups all start from his up air and throws, so he fishes for these quite hard, while Roy's kill setups tend to come from his sour aerials, his jabs, or his low-hitting moves like dtilt, which setup for a read to kill with blazer/tilts etc.

Honestly, the only thing Roy and Captain Falcon have in common is that they both have a good grab game and they both have good punish games. But you can say that about many characters, that's like saying "Sheik is Captain Falcon with a projectiles" or something like that. Not sure why I ever thought that in the first place lol.

You're the first person I've seen that says Roy isn't Falcon with a sword.

And I agree with you. The whole "Roy is Falcon with a sword" thing was getting old even though they play nothing alike.

 

[Shadow_13]

I've actually since severely taken back what I said in that post lol. The whole "Captain Falcon with a sword" thing is not really true at all, if one is playing Roy better. I think Roy is top 20 still (probably not top 15, but potentially so) though. Allow me to expand.

Captain Falcon's style is based more around reads and baiting your opponent into doing something punishable using his overwhelming speed and dash grab. He uses other tools like bair and up air to help, but that's his gameplan for the most part. Weave around your opponent till you get your chance.

Now, the way I see it, optimal Roy play is nothing like that. Roy is a character that slowly moves up into his maximum range and likes to keep it there, using spaced out nairs, fairs, jabs, dtilts and ftilts to harry your opponent, and keep pushing them. All of these moves are quite safe when used properly, giving Roy a significantly more difficult to guess neutral than Captain Falcon. Captain Falcon doesn't want to sit around in neutral: his opponents know what he wants to go for and he just has to get it. Roy's neutral is much more difficult to pull apart. He has much more varied confirms than Captain Falcon, and has a much easier time applying constant pressure. Roy likes to grab like Falcon, but his grab isn't nearly as fast and so he has to be more careful about when he goes for it. Captain Falcon's best kill setups all start from his up air and throws, so he fishes for these quite hard, while Roy's kill setups tend to come from his sour aerials, his jabs, or his low-hitting moves like dtilt, which setup for a read to kill with blazer/tilts etc.

Honestly, the only thing Roy and Captain Falcon have in common is that they both have a good grab game and they both have good punish games. But you can say that about many characters, that's like saying "Sheik is Captain Falcon with a projectiles" or something like that. Not sure why I ever thought that in the first place lol.

It's more the concept rather than the play style. Everyone just accepts that they are good, fast, strong, and relatively easy to pick up. Nothing more than that, but the idea is funny to think about.

 

[The21stSmasher]

Honestly, as a Roy main, I can see him at a range of one of the best Mid Tier characters or one of the worst High Tier character. Not actually sure to as of which one, but he's definitely not a bad character.

 

[Gawain]

It's more the concept rather than the play style. Everyone just accepts that they are good, fast, strong, and relatively easy to pick up. Nothing more than that, but the idea is funny to think about.

I actually strongly disagree that they're easy to use at mid to high level. At low level, sure,they have decently fast and very strong attacks,lots of kill moves. But at anything near tournament level? No way, Roy is not allowed to mess up his spacing ever, and he can't even whiff aerials in most matchups. You really have to know when to press buttons (but once Roy gets his pressure going he's amazingly good). Captain Falcon has an easier to abuse and less punishable grab/whiff game, but you basically are required to get a good read to kill them, or catch your opponent doing something dumb. This is actually really tough when playing someone competent who realizes that Falcon is limited to just 1 guaranteed and safe kill confirm, and only really has a couple other setups from neutral.

 

[Shadow_13]

I actually strongly disagree that they're easy to use at mid to high level. At low level, sure,they have decently fast and very strong attacks,lots of kill moves. But at anything near tournament level? No way, Roy is not allowed to mess up his spacing ever, and he can't even whiff aerials in most matchups. You really have to know when to press buttons (but once Roy gets his pressure going he's amazingly good). Captain Falcon has an easier to abuse and less punishable grab/whiff game, but you basically are required to get a good read to kill them, or catch your opponent doing something dumb. This is actually really tough when playing someone competent who realizes that Falcon is limited to just 1 guaranteed and safe kill confirm, and only really has a couple other setups from neutral.

I definitely agree with that. Walk into a tournament and say Roy is Falcon with sword and you'll get picked on haha. But, I don't think I have played a match of friendlies where there was Roy vs Falcon and someone doesn't say "Hey look, a dittos match." I still think the two are relatively easy to use, but yeah, much harder than a clone with a spacing option.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I've actually since severely taken back what I said in that post lol. The whole "Captain Falcon with a sword" thing is not really true at all, if one is playing Roy better. I think Roy is top 20 still (probably not top 15, but potentially so) though. Allow me to expand.

Captain Falcon's style is based more around reads and baiting your opponent into doing something punishable using his overwhelming speed and dash grab. He uses other tools like bair and up air to help, but that's his gameplan for the most part. Weave around your opponent till you get your chance.

Now, the way I see it, optimal Roy play is nothing like that. Roy is a character that slowly moves up into his maximum range and likes to keep it there, using spaced out nairs, fairs, jabs, dtilts and ftilts to harry your opponent, and keep pushing them. All of these moves are quite safe when used properly, giving Roy a significantly more difficult to guess neutral than Captain Falcon. Captain Falcon doesn't want to sit around in neutral: his opponents know what he wants to go for and he just has to get it. Roy's neutral is much more difficult to pull apart. He has much more varied confirms than Captain Falcon, and has a much easier time applying constant pressure. Roy likes to grab like Falcon, but his grab isn't nearly as fast and so he has to be more careful about when he goes for it. Captain Falcon's best kill setups all start from his up air and throws, so he fishes for these quite hard, while Roy's kill setups tend to come from his sour aerials, his jabs, or his low-hitting moves like dtilt, which setup for a read to kill with blazer/tilts etc.

Honestly, the only thing Roy and Captain Falcon have in common is that they both have a good grab game and they both have good punish games. But you can say that about many characters, that's like saying "Sheik is Captain Falcon with a projectiles" or something like that. Not sure why I ever thought that in the first place lol.

Gawain over here thinking like a swordsman and stuff