Where does Pit stand now?

[Denjinpachi]

I'm a little surprised with how little Pit representation there is nowadays. I had a general idea that he got hit pretty hard with the nerfs that came with 3.5, but I thought there would be some form of rebound with 3.6. Is he really that much worse now, that very few dedicated people will use him? What happened?

 

[Ridel]

With his nerf a lot of his fun factor was lost too which I feel was the main contributing reason. That being said he's okay for the most part but he takes a lot of practice to start being fun to play and a lot of people just give up before it gets juicy.

 

[Denjinpachi]

With his nerf a lot of his fun factor was lost too which I feel was the main contributing reason. That being said he's okay for the most part but he takes a lot of practice to start being fun to play and a lot of people just give up before it gets juicy.

I kinda had a feeling that was it. But, yeah he doesn't really seem the same, like as an enjoyable character. 'it feels like there is too much work to get too little result. Almost like the Lucas/Spacie treatment. Link can be compared that was some what too.

 

[Ridel]

I kinda had a feeling that was it. But, yeah he doesn't really seem the same, like as an enjoyable character. 'it feels like there is too much work to get too little result. Almost like the Lucas/Spacie treatment. Link can be compared that was some what too.

Yeah but Lucas and the Spacies can and have been getting results.

 

[Duplighost]

Can someone explain to me what nerfs he got?

 

[Ridel]

Can someone explain to me what nerfs he got?

D-throw was severly nerfed and doesn't really reliable combo like it used to, neutral-b has less IASA frames and more endlag, side-b uses all your jumps besides one, up-b got a sourspot that kills much later, and a few other KB and damage nerfs. Well that's what I could remember off the top of my head.

 

[Duplighost]

D-throw was severly nerfed and doesn't really reliable combo like it used to, neutral-b has less IASA frames and more endlag, side-b uses all your jumps besides one, up-b got a sourspot that kills much later, and a few other KB and damage nerfs. Well that's what I could remember off the top of my head.

But... why? If anything Pit need buffs?

 

[redbeanjelly]

But... why? If anything Pit need buffs?

It seems you might be a tad confused about the timeline of his changes. He needs buffs now, he did in 3.6b and 3.5. He needed nerfs in 3.02 for sure, and the problem arose when the DT overnerfed him (like many other characters) and from that point onward they just buffed him way too gradually to bring him up to his former glory. The 3.6b changes also gave him some weird nerfs along with his buffs that ruined the utility of some moves, namely, Upsmash and Fsmash1.

Eventually he might have ended up as not just an average character, but a good character; unfortunately the DT shutdown put an end to all that.

 

[Denjinpachi]

It seems you might be a tad confused about the timeline of his changes. He needs buffs now, he did in 3.6b and 3.5. He needed nerfs in 3.02 for sure, and the problem arose when the DT overnerfed him (like many other characters) and from that point onward they just buffed him way too gradually to bring him up to his former glory. The 3.6b changes also gave him some weird nerfs along with his buffs that ruined the utility of some moves, namely, Upsmash and Fsmash1.

Eventually he might have ended up as not just an average character, but a good character; unfortunately the DT shutdown put an end to all that.

I agree with this, except for one little thing. In my honest opinion, all the characters in this game are really good. But just like any game with match ups, some will just strictly be better than others. Pit just feels like a character that has to be relearned. A lot of his changes in the properties of his moves kinda makes me believe he benefits more from the tech chase/off balance game leading to arrow gimps. He can't really zero to death, or juggle nearly as freely as I had seen before, thank goodness lol. But yeah, his current condition kinda feels like an incomplete version of him. I don't like it, but its because I don't understand it. Which, unusually has me interested in figuring him out somewhat.

 

[Denjinpachi]

Did his arrows get nerfed at all?

 

[redbeanjelly]

I believe in 3.5 they made arrows have less hitstun, as well as being laggier in general. (The damage might have something to do with distance decay, but I can't recall off the top of my head). But this was slightly remedied in 3.6 and now it's sort of a middle ground in both regards.

My biggest gripe with Pit is just the sheer amount of work it's gonna take to bring him up to speed with the rest of the cast. The things you said like techchasing and the stagger game are much harder to pull off compared to guaranteed combos and kill confirms, especially in tournament setting. If you took whatever amount of time you sunk into playing Pit into a similar character like Marth or Meta Knight, you'd probably see more success with the latter, unless you have some sort of natural affinity for Pit that doesn't translate to any of the other swordies.

You can see how daunting of a proposition this is, and it's why many Pit players have given up the character over the course of PM's history. And nowadays, any notable Pit players play him as a secondary to their mains. I can't think of a single dedicated, solo Pit main. Personally, although there are some aspects of the character I enjoy that keep me playing him, there are an equal number of faults that I find incredibly frustrating at times.

 

[Denjinpachi]

I believe in 3.5 they made arrows have less hitstun, as well as being laggier in general. (The damage might have something to do with distance decay, but I can't recall off the top of my head). But this was slightly remedied in 3.6 and now it's sort of a middle ground in both regards.

My biggest gripe with Pit is just the sheer amount of work it's gonna take to bring him up to speed with the rest of the cast. The things you said like techchasing and the stagger game are much harder to pull off compared to guaranteed combos and kill confirms, especially in tournament setting. If you took whatever amount of time you sunk into playing Pit into a similar character like Marth or Meta Knight, you'd probably see more success with the latter, unless you have some sort of natural affinity for Pit that doesn't translate to any of the other swordies.

You can see how daunting of a proposition this is, and it's why many Pit players have given up the character over the course of PM's history. And nowadays, any notable Pit players play him as a secondary to their mains. I can't think of a single dedicated, solo Pit main. Personally, although there are some aspects of the character I enjoy that keep me playing him, there are an equal number of faults that I find incredibly frustrating at times.

I feel it, friend. But i think, at least, pit should definitely remain as a good pocket character. I couldn't say i'd main him right off the bat. But, ill see. i intend to get back to the grind in all the games very soon.

 

[Skelterai]

I think the problem with Pit is that his kit doesn't really know it's made for. In 3.02, it's clear he was made to rack up damage onstage and then net kills offstage, kinda like a crazy mix of Peach and Marth with a scary grab game to boot. They nerfed his arrows,(well deserved) nerfed his recovery(well deserved), nerfed his throws(...OK...) Nerfed his mobility (..?..) and finally nerfed his kill options(ugh)

Now I think all he needed before was some fine tuning. wall of deaths are now 10 times harder, no consistent way to build damage other than reads, pokes, and grabs. No links to immediate kill moves at high percents. Gimps or upsmash is your best bet. Arrows or more harassment rather than pressure. Down b is only situational and only worthwhile in 10~ matchups.

Before, his character was good in all aspects. No doubt. But rather than refocus his kit, they nerfed it all. 3.6 made things better. Like having aerial neutral b faster, but it also got rid of the infinite glide which made his recovery worse.

Pit went from top 5 in 3.0, to bottom in 3.5

 

[Tomaster]

What i find to be his worst issue is the lack of kill setups. His neutral is not bad, his recovery is great, his combo game (although not the most reliable) can be really good. On paper it looks like he has it all, but he just CAN'T CONVERT. When people think of pit's kill options the first 3 that come up are usmash, up b, and back air. How often do you get a setup into one of those at kill percents? There are setups of course, but finding them is a whole lot harder than with someone like falcon or DK. Getting reads for kills is standard for pit, and I don't need to say why that's bad..

Pit is still awesome tho

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Some people may think Pit has a bad MU spread but he's actually a really good counterpick character, against floaties.

 

[Skelterai]

I think he does well against floaties, but I wouldn't say he's a counter pick for any of them. I think he only does good because he has strong aerials with high KB, and multiple jumps. Plus a nice spacing tool with arrows.

Jigglypuff and Samus are still relatively even matchups. I think he still loses to Rob, Peach, Ivysaur, Marth, Game and Watch, Wario, and Luigi. As for Mario, Kirby, Zelda, Ness, Lucas, and Mewtwo, it's probably even.

I'd say the characters he does the best against are the heavies and fastfallers, since he can actually combo and juggle them.

 

[Krumpberry]

I disagree. I find Pit is best when it comes to midweights and floaties. Pit wants to get people above him so he can start juggling them, but the issue with fastfallers is that you need to rack on some damage before you can start juggling them reliably. So at lower percents against fastfallers, your combo game is really just a bunch of reads in neutral. They can CC what you've got and you'll be techchasing off of dthrow. With midweights-floaties though, you can get them in a juggle range pretty much right off the bat. And we all know how disgusting Pit's juggle game is, so they shouldn't be coming down when they're getting juggled, unless it's from a spawn plat.

Also, I would say Pit beats Luigi. Pit doesn't have issues juggling Luigi because of our disjoint and arrow, so we don't have to worry about any surprise nairs (unless you space badly). Everyone usually wants to kill Luigi off the top, and Pit has no issues with that. He can even deal with Luigi's horizontal recovery. Arrows clank with sideb, so Luigi has to do it again and is a sitting duck. You could also just fair him out of sideb, or reflect him if you're a little ballsy.