When to and when not to roll

[GamesShark]

Hey guys.
So, I've played this game for a long time(starting with melee). As could be expected, I picked up a couple of bad habits from when I played as a little tike. One of those is rolling WAY too much. I need some help knowing when and when I shouldn't roll. If you guys could help me, that would be great!

 

[DarkDeity15]

I would recommend not trying to roll past or behind someone (edit~unless they're attacking you from the front and want to punish them for it). You'll be punished almost every time depending on the skill of the opponent with reads. Rolling away from people though can be a good tactc as long as your opponent isn't too close, unless you're trying to bait a reaction to punish with run-up > roll back.

 

[Conda]

I think generally you don't want to roll behind your opponent when they're not attacking, don't roll away while your opponent isn't attacking, don't fall into a pattern, don't roll when your opponent is rolling (especially if you're in 2nd place in the roll-race of who is rolling before the other), and don't roll 2-3 times in the same direction.

Don't roll while being attacked also. It's a very common thing early on when players aren't too good yet, but once you roll your shield goes down for a few frames and you'll just get hit. Just hold the shield strong and grab or something after the attack is done - you gain nothing by rolling after blocking an attack most of the time.

 

[Thinkaman]

Forward roll (or a roll towards your opponent; technically your character's back roll if you are facing away from him, such as if you were spacing aerials and landed) should only be done to get behind an opponent who is doing a slow move that you can neither challenge nor punish on block for whatever reason. (Maybe it's a high pushback smash, you have low shield, or it's simply a grab!)

The problem is, unless it's a charging f-smash, this can never be done on reaction--you'd already be hit. Forward rolls are only really good for reads, which is ironic.

Don't forward roll towards an opponent if it won't take you behind him. What is the point? Walking forward and powershielding threats is strictly superior in almost all cases. Exceptions are rare, and involve reading SUPER laggy attacks.

Back roll is forfeiting control of stage to create space and escape pressure, while remaining facing your opponent. Logically, you can only do this a given number of times based on positioning.

In any given matchup, normally one character wants to escape pressure and create space. Back roll let's them expend intangible resources to do this, if and only if they read the opponent as doing a non-dash action. (Or other away roll punish, like Ganon Wizkick.)

 

[BlueXenon]

Rolling should only be used as a strategic mix up. Don't roll by habit and don't roll to get around the stage. Walking is significantly safer and gives you the best options. Dashing is useful to close or widen the distance between you and your opponent.

Getting rid of your rolling habits will be difficult, but it's not impossible. You just have to constantly remind yourself to stop mid-game.

If you would like to know specific situations in which rolling is useful:
You can roll behind your opponent when they are about to hit you with a move that only hits forward (a jab, forward aerial, etc.), and then you can punish.
Roll as a defensive mix up after missing a move to make it harder for your opponents to punish you.

If you ever notice your opponents constantly doing retreating attacks, they are probably trying to bait you to roll so they can punish it.

Also, while rolling towards center-stage after coming back from the ledge can occasionally be an amazing option that allows you to seamlessly bring the match back to neutral, some opponents wait for you to roll in that situation, so be careful.

 

[MrFrigid]

Don't roll at all, drugs are bad. Stay sober!

 

[Quillion]

Just roll whenever the hell you want. They're almost as cheap as the air dodge was in Brawl.

 

[Mettie7]

Don't get into a bad habit like I did, my friends had to ween me out of it and I did better. Like everyone else said in this thread, I find rolling away instead of toward or behind the better option bc rolls are punishable as heck in this game.

 

[Babali Boon]

Don't roll at all, drugs are bad. Stay sober!

M'kay.

 

[Aguki90]

My opinion to roll is:

A projectile is coming- I kinda recomend dodging projectile by rolling especially is the oppenent is far away, make projectile easier to dodge but never do it is very close to the other character, that a risky move, just when you far away and be safe position.

Run, shield and back roll- This quite silly tricky move move. But you can really Run then shield to stop running. I call this Stop and Shield, Is a good technique to fool foe and then do a back roll to dodge incoming attacks.
This technique can work to protect from projectile when needed then do a backroll to stay safe from the foe.

But I really not recommend roll behind user often, down smash can be punishable with many characters like Mario. So its better roll away from the foe than roll into them.

But remember rolls speed feel similar but in reality some characters are slower and some are very fast like .

 

[GamesShark]

Hey, thank you all for the feedback :D
This is really gonna help

 

[Quillion]

Don't get into a bad habit like I did, my friends had to ween me out of it and I did better. Like everyone else said in this thread, I find rolling away instead of toward or behind the better option bc rolls are punishable as heck in this game.

They're not punishable as heck; they take like a frame-perfect luck-based attack to punish, like a lot of people have said in other threads.

Rolling habits are actually incredibly rewarding in this game.

 

[Ryik]

They're not punishable as heck; they take like a frame-perfect luck-based attack to punish, like a lot of people have said in other threads.

Rolling habits are actually incredibly rewarding in this game.

Two words: Dash attacks.

While different for every character, most characters have an attack with comparatively many active frames, which is often (but not always) the dash attack. For example, Jigglypuff has Pound, Dash Attacks, Nair, Fair, and Dair, and if they slip up, Sing, which can combo into Rest, which can kill at around 40%.

 

[Deleted member]

Just don't excessively roll like the AI does. And don't roll as Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[Quillion]

Two words: Dash attacks.

While different for every character, most characters have an attack with comparatively many active frames, which is often (but not always) the dash attack. For example, Jigglypuff has Pound, Dash Attacks, Nair, Fair, and Dair, and if they slip up, Sing, which can combo into Rest, which can kill at around 40%.

There are recorded instances of being able to literally roll into a lingering attack and rolling back without suffering any damage. It's only a matter of time before people realize how to do it consistently.

 

[Ryik]

There are recorded instances of being able to literally roll into a lingering attack and rolling back without suffering any damage. It's only a matter of time before people realize how to do it consistently.

The only example of that I can think of is Sing, as it actually applies periodically in short intervals rather than constantly. (Which is why I said opponents need to slip up to fall for it) If you want to make such a claim as "rolls have 0 vulnerable frames before the next roll", then you're going to have to provide proof.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Two checks

Is the game on?

Are you in battle?

If yes to both, then you should be rollin'

 

[David Galanos]

Don't roll at all, drugs are bad. Stay sober!

I've spent a lot of time getting good with Greninja, message me or something if you wanna play later 2809-9524-9953