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When or how should I engage with fox?

RazeriaN

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
42
Hi guys, I've reciently switched from playing IC to Fox in P:M and I found myself not knowing how to engage properly, as i end up taking a lot of damage. In Melee i also mained IC so regarding fox im a complete noob. The only way of engaging that i've came up with was running towards them and pressing A, if they dont react its a pretty decent tactic, but when you are playing against players they will shield, or hit you back. This leads me into getting killed for being overly aggressive. So basicly i dont know if i should ever engage , and if i have to, then how i should engage in a way that wont lead me into giving them a stock for free.


P.D.: I'm talking about engaging in general, not VS a character in specific
 

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
4,290
NNID
hinichii
3DS FC
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Try using dash dances in an aggressive manor to make people flinch. If they act inappropriately, punish them aka go in. Just moving aggressively can create openings for you to go in. So if they shield as you run up to them, you can ether start DD'ing in front of them, pressure their shield or run past them and do stuff to'em. You can also laser them and that will force them in. If your smart, you can just go balls deep on them kamikaze nair shine their shield and follow up with something. I recommend watching players like Javí and leffin to get a good feel for when to go in and what to do once you get in.
 

RazeriaN

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
42
Oh so you basicly fake them to do something and then punish them. Also, when it comes to lasering people do i have to short hop to laser or is it okay if i just dont do it?
 

Foxy K

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
242
Location
Twin Cities, MN
NNID
foxy_k
Well you definitely don't want to laser on the ground, that's for sure. As far as doing it at all, they do ~1-2% and have no knockback, so unless you like to run away and camp, they're not a necessity.
 

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
4,290
NNID
hinichii
3DS FC
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Every little bit brings you closer to a kill. Every laser that hits is that much less you have to do. Sh double laser can rack DMG quickly, so if they want come in, shoot'em. That 12% DMG from the lasers they just took to get to you, yea, they in usmash danger zone now :denzel:
 

BILL?

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
111
Location
Pasadena, CA
With dash dancing, there are a few main things to always keep in mind, namely the range of Fox's dash>Shffl Nair (which is quite long, thanks to his amazing dash speed) and the range of your opponent's fastest/longest approach.
You generally want to dash dance so that you are in the Nair range but just barely outside of your opponent's longest fast approach (Or in a range where you can consistently avoid their attack on reaction and then punish.
A good way to think of it is that they are always doing that attack, so you need to always move back and forth to avoid it. but still be close enough to get that dash>nair in a moment's notice.
When dash dancing, something I like to do is vary the length of my dash dance so it looks like i am going in, but then I wavedash back out of their range. be smart, don't play at a bad range. don't get grabbed, and don't attack shields without knowing how to stop shield grabs.

When you think it is time to go in, Fox is blessed with an approach that is extremely safe. This is the SHFFL Nair > Shine.
It takes practice to get the timing right and consistent, and when you first try you might have a lot of accidental sideB suicides, but it will be worth it to learn this. It is fox's BnB approach.
When you start off, and also as a good mixup, you can do SHFFL Nair > Jab (you can grab, jab again, do a down.tilt etc.
The reason you do the shine or the jabs after your aerial is to prevent shield grabs. These moves come out so fast that the shielding character will get hit if they try to grab, so you still get a good hit if they try to counterattack, and you don't get grabbed.. The jab after an aerial is a very good option, I use it to set up for a grab sometimes and it can really trip up someone's defense,and the second jab is a good way to mix it up.
Dair>shine is also a pretty good approach, Bair is good too.

If they flinch, you can sometimes run up and raw upsmash them, this one is situational but it really gets in people's heads. They usually flinch most when they think an upsmash is coming; Fox is terrifying when you are at like 100% and he is dash dancing outside of your shield.
But if they stay in that shield, just grab them and up throw up air (depends on character). That also gets in their head, since now they just died because they shielded.

If they attack, which is quite possible, you can shield, roll away, spot dodge, or wavedash back to avoid it. Shield or wavedash are usually what I do, you can attack them sooner with those. You will figure out what to do to punish them as you play more fox.

Also look up on youtube "smash tutorial #1 Spacing" It is an excellent lesson and it uses fox as the example. You should watch the whole series, HMW really did a service to the smash community with those vids.

Keep your opponent on their toes by mixing up your attacks, maybe do a Dair>grab in a game where you had been doing dair>shine, they think you will shine instead so they keep on shielding, but you just straight up grab them (or they get hit, then the Dair>grab often still works great) You can do empty jumps or

If you work on the basic fox techniques and spacing, and really try to apply it in your game, you will have the tools you need to play a pretty decent fox.
Hope you have fun with Fox, he can be tricky to learn but he is very fun and can do some really cool stuff. (look up a Silent Wolf tech skill vid for melee, you'll see what I mean)

TLDR: Go to the melee character forums, read the fox tutorials, practice and use what you learn in your gameplay. They have everything there. Watch tutorial. do mixups. SW does cool stuff with fox. Have fun.
 
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RazeriaN

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
42
Thanks for the insight guys, i feel like i really have to trick my opponent and get in their heads by mixing up my moves. It really did help my fox improve even tho i cant get most of the advanced techskill done. But practice makes perfect. I'm thankfull for the help!
 

TKD

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
1,587
Location
Tijuana, México
Dashdance. Rush. ****.

The worst that can happen is that you need to shoot a couple lasers LOL
 

BILL?

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
111
Location
Pasadena, CA
Certain opponents you generally should not approach unless you definitely have an opening. Marth is one of these. Regardless of the MU, generally just keep mobile while you wait for an opening, don't force the situation or you'll probably come out on the wrong end of an exchange.
 

xSTx

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Messages
27
If you can't get in, just start firing lasers to force them to come in. When they are about mid range start dash dancing, weave your way in and out to make them whiff an attack. Punish.
 

Boomhound

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2014
Messages
121
Location
Cork, Ireland
You can Nair-Shine as an approach, if they CC your Nair and punish you can Dair-Shine or lateNair-Shine instead.
If they avoid this by dash-dancing and baiting whiffs you can overshoot your aerials and your grabs (boost-grabs a.k.a. dash attack cancelled grabs) or you can mix-up your approaches by wave-dashing back at the last second and/or dash-dancing yourself.

Fox is known as a pressure intensive character- outside of shield-pressure Fox can stress the opponent out by baiting whiffs with his movement and by forcing a character that has a bad approach with short-hopped lasers or double lasers.
 

-Se7en-

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
442
Dash Dancing is extremely important in Fox play, as dash dancing is a baiting maneuver.

In a serious perspective - you don't want to rush down all the time. You don't always have to approach, use SHL's to force an approach if you have to.

I'll use Marth as an example, you don't always have to approach and you should think hard whether you want to run in or not because you could get grabbed and lose a stock.
 
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