whats the best time to grab falco

[APESAUCE]

i was playing a falco the other week and every time he would come down with a dair i would try to shield grab him but his shine would get me EVERY SINGLE TIME. is there a certain time within his dair that i should shield grab?

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Unless it's frame perfect shield pressure, you can shield grab him. If it is frame perfect, you're free to be shield pressured to whatever shadow realm the Falco decides.

 

[Link24a]

In neutral. Be m2k

 

[FE_Hector]

If you know that he's gonna come down with a dair, WD out of the way at the last second and grab him. Or just DD and pivot grab. It shouldn't be too tough to get a grab in that situation, though.

 

[DeadPigeon]

Don't forget that marth's grab outspaces shine

 

[FE_Hector]

Remember that Marth's everything outspaces Shine, especially if you're behind him.

 

[Thor]

If he's coming down with dair and he's hitting anywhere above the middle of your shield, you can time a shieldgrab to grab him... Falco's dair is something like -2 on shield if done perfectly [based on the link below], and by perfectly I mean hitting your shield the frame before he hits the ground, which means he has 5 frames to shine to avoid the grab if he's perfect... so if he's hitting anywhere near the top (or middlish) of your shield, you can definitely grab him, although timing is a little tight.

Unless it's frame perfect shield pressure, you can shield grab him. If it is frame perfect, you're free to be shield pressured to whatever shadow realm the Falco decides.

You can shieldgrab all of Falco's pressure options except for multishining and maybe double shine -> double jump aerial/double jump away... for doubleshine wavedash down you have to grab after the second shine [grab him out of his wavedash], although dj dair is a mixup, and for nairshine or dairshine pressure, you can shieldgrab it depending on when he does the dair.

http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-pillar-frame-data.271114/ [note that the first one is slightly inaccurate because it doesn't account for the gravity glitch, yet always has Falco landing the same frame (showing that it doesn't account for it), but it's off by at most one or two frames and still very relevant].

The reason his shield pressure is good is because he's using two of his most potent combo starters and can vary when he does his aerial [and also do it on the backsides of shields to avoid grabs], but if you can predict or react to his aerial, he should be getting grabbed.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

If he's coming down with dair and he's hitting anywhere above the middle of your shield, you can time a shieldgrab to grab him... Falco's dair is something like -2 on shield if done perfectly [based on the link below], and by perfectly I mean hitting your shield the frame before he hits the ground, which means he has 5 frames to shine to avoid the grab if he's perfect... so if he's hitting anywhere near the top (or middlish) of your shield, you can definitely grab him, although timing is a little tight.



You can shieldgrab all of Falco's pressure options except for multishining and maybe double shine -> double jump aerial/double jump away... for doubleshine wavedash down you have to grab after the second shine [grab him out of his wavedash], although dj dair is a mixup, and for nairshine or dairshine pressure, you can shieldgrab it depending on when he does the dair.

http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-pillar-frame-data.271114/ [note that the first one is slightly inaccurate because it doesn't account for the gravity glitch, yet always has Falco landing the same frame (showing that it doesn't account for it), but it's off by at most one or two frames and still very relevant].

The reason his shield pressure is good is because he's using two of his most potent combo starters and can vary when he does his aerial [and also do it on the backsides of shields to avoid grabs], but if you can predict or react to his aerial, he should be getting grabbed.

Not if It's frame perfect. Although, you can buffer a roll out.

 

[Thor]

Not if It's frame perfect. Although, you can buffer a roll out.

Did you look at the link?

First of all, I'll be clear... I'm talking about shine dair pressure being grabbable, not other stuff. Landing with a dair and doing shine isn't grabbable [a very late dair], and you don't even need to be close to frame perfect for that [you have (according to the post) 5 frames assuming the Marth is frame-perfect].

But if you looked at the link, you'd see that there are always at least 36 frames of air time (accounting for shieldhitlag) [and slightly less with immediate dair, but I'm positive that's grabbable], with 44frames between shines. Shine covers the first 10 frames with shieldstun+shieldhitlag, but the dair only does 14 frames of combined shieldstun+shieldhitlag.... 44-10 = 34 - 14 = 20, meaning Falco is stuck in animations where he can't do anything while the opponent can act. No matter how you split those 20 frames, there will always be an at least 10-frame window, and grab is 7 frames.

That said, you have to grab Falco on prediction if the dair is being done such that there is 13 frames of actionability pre-dair and 6 after, because you can't "react" to no dair, and the delayed dair makes him safe long enough to shine afterwards, but there is not a dair timing such that you cannot be grabbed after the shine or after the dair... if you knew exactly when your opponent was going to input their moves you could always grab them out of shine dair shield pressure.

If you don't believe me, click on the link I posted above and read the contents of the first post.

Note however that if they do a dair too high as they are landing, that's grabbable regardless [like on the top of one's shield].

 

[FE_Hector]

I'm fairly sure that shine nair pressure is like 10000% safer

 

[Roche_CL]

Just DD grab if you predict the approach, or wavedash backwards and grab depending on the situation.
If you are being pressured, you can grab after the shine if he lands in front of you and isn't too technical, or roll away, or sometimes wavedash oos and Fsmash.

 

[-ACE-]

CC/ASDI grabs (works on jabs, imperfectly timed/spaced aerials, some tilts at super low%, etc)

PS aerial to grab

PS laser to grab

Hit by laser mid-shorthop, immediate non-tipper fair (out of stun) to grab (surprises them)

shield DI (approach AND shine) and grab

Create techchase opportunity, techchase with grab

WD back, shieldgrab

Non-tipper uair at mid% to grab (land on plat)

jab/dtilt (catch them off guard), dash jc grab

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Light shield. Get knocked out of shine range by dair because it's light shield, grab the shine.

EZ