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What would be the roster if you were in charge?

PokéfreakofBACON

Smash Ace
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PokefreakofBACON
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With the same number of characters as Ultimate, create a roster that would make more sense to you, completely from scratch.

Rules -
1. You may have no more and no less than 75 (including the fighter pass) unique characters, and 7 echos.
2. You may replace 1 unique fighter with 2 echos, or vice versa.
3. Each 1st party franchise currently represented in Ultimate must have at least 1 character in your roster.
4. The above rule does not apply to retro characters such as ROB/Duck Hunt/Ice Climbers/Etc.
5. Yoshi, WarioWare/Land, and Donkey Kong Country count as seperate franchises.
6. No cuts from the original 12.
7. You can only have 5 3rd party companies involved. Bayonetta and Joker count as Sega, and similar cases would apply for Rare under Microsoft, etc.
8. Not really a rule, but if you want to count Pokemon Trainer/Mii Fighters as 1 or 3 characters, you can choose. The limit is still 71/7 either way.

Bonus points if you use this roster maker to give us an image of how you'd sort them.

Here's mine!

Roxy1 Roster.png


-Paper Mario and Geno are a seperate franchise, similar to WarioWare or Yoshi, the franchise of course being "Mario RPGs"
-All echos are marked in red, directly below the character they're an echo of, except Ninten who echos Ness below him.
-Dixie is an echo of Diddy, but with a different up B, a tether grab/zair, and while her attacks are all functionally the same, she does use her hair for some animations
-Young Link is now classified as an echo, because there's no real reason not to.
-Krystal is the only starfox character not based on Fox lmao
-Waluigi is an echo of Jimmy T, because they're probably the same person, and Jimmy T is all about dancing/sports, so his moveset would easily fit Waluigi, a character from Mario Sports games
-I removed Namco to get in Microsoft. Nothing personal, Pac-Man.
-Bowser Jr's final smash isn't based on Sunshine anymore, and he still has koopaling alts.
-Olimar and Alph are seperated, so Olimar has 4 Louie skins, and Alph has 2 skins of Brittany, and 2 of Charlie.
-I replaced Ken with Proto Man, but I'm okay with it either way.

The rest is probably self-explanatory
 

Tetrin

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
529
Switch FC
SW-7468-3675-9681
Why is it that I'm in charge of the roster and yet there are rules that prohibit me from creating a roster if I were in charge?

Why are Geno and Paper Mario separate series from mainline Mario? They are subseries of a main series; they literally hail from games with "Mario" in the title.

Why does Waluigi rep WarioWare if he's never appeared in any of its games?

Why did you give Zelda 3 reps? It's literally two variations of the same person, so why not include characters with more potential?

Why does Kid Icarus have so many reps? I get you probably like it, but is it really so deserving if most people only know of the series through Smash?

Why did you give Metroid only 3 reps, or 2 if you think Samus and Zero Suit Samus, despite being separate characters, constitute one rep? Dark Samus is the major villain in Metroid Prime, and Sylux, though resembling Samus, has a very different arsenal. Plus, why does Star Fox get more representation? Metroid is vastly more popular.

Why make Ninten a third rep for the Mother series instead of a villain? No matter how you look at it, Ninten would be an echo (which you included him as) or semi clone of Ness at best, which would mean that there would be essentially three reps with very similar movesets for one series. Why not include Porky or Masked Man, who boast very different and unique options?

Why not include Rex and Pyra, or even Elma? Xenoblade is both relevant and popular, and both options have movesets that vary from Shulk's greatly. Further, why give Punch Out! and F-Zero more representation than Xenoblade? Xenoblade is exponentially more popular than both series, and giving two dead franchises an echo fighter seems almost entirely outmatched if you can give a relevant franchise a unique fighter.

In addition to the previous question, why do Punch Out! and F-Zero get echoes before Splatoon? Splatoon is massively popular in both the west and east, and is way more defining than both franchises. Plus, if the Octolings were to be echoes, they could show off weapons from Splatoon 2, and even then, most of the important weapons wouldn't be shown off.

Why does Bayonetta count as Sega? Nintendo has partial right to Bayo 2 and 3. and afaik don't need Sega's permission to add her if that's the case (hence why she reps Bayonetta 2, not the Bayonetta series; it's cheaper).
I guess you could answer all these questions with "because I'm in charge", but I'd like to know the reasoning behind your choices.
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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Jul 3, 2015
Messages
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PokefreakofBACON
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Why is it that I'm in charge of the roster and yet there are rules that prohibit me from creating a roster if I were in charge?
Because of Nintendo forcing quotas on you or something. You're Sakurai, not the entirety of Nintendo.
 

Nemuresu

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
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Mexico City
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Leaving mine to share:

*Considering Pokémon Trainer as one because of publicity notes, so roster only amounts to 80 characters in total (counting echos and 5 DLCs).
*Replaced Dr. Mario and Young Link because they're apparently not considered echo fighters, henceforth, it's fair game.
*Removed Corrin because **** him.
*Removed Mii Fighters because they're a waste outside of local fights.
*Removed Zero Suit Samus because I can just live without her.
*Didn't remove any echos because there aren't any good replacements for them, besides Shadow.
*Keeping all the oddball characters because of my own philosophies (a bit of everything).
*Put Captain Toad so Mario still has the biggest amount of characters with Pokémon.
*Added Gardevoir and Genesect to represent all Pokémon generations.
*Added Skull Kid for the sake of having another unique Zelda character.
*Added Bandana Dee to have some more Kirby characters.
*Added Chun-Li because what's a Street Fighter crossover without her?
*Added Alucard to represent the Metroid-side of Castlevania.
*Added Dante and Leon because Capcom bias.
*Added Bomberman and Sephiroth because of fame.
*Added Neku because bias too.
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Experiment.png

That it literally the best shape my brain could think up where I was satisfied. I really wanted to leave the first row at just the OG 12. Sorry.

As you may have noticed, there are no third-party franchises on that there roster. That's not because I hate third-parties or think they shouldn't be in Smash, but I wanted to make an experiment and see what game Ultimate could be if it was Nintendo only. (If I were to keep third parties, everyone would stay and you'd see guys like Crono, Sora, Wright, Layton, Leon Kennedy and more get in, so excluding third parties also kept me somewhat sane).

As mentioned earlier, all third-parties got cut as a mere premise.

Corrin, Incineroar and Piranha Plant were cut because they're terrible additions and shouldn't have been in Smash in the first place.

Even if keeping the OG 12 wasn't a rule I would've done so, great selection.

I initially cut Sheik, but decided to bring her back because I'd miss her, grandfather clause and to rep Ocarina of Time. Also considered either replacing her with Impa or adding both with Impa as her echo.

Dr. Mario and Rosalina got cut and made way for Toad and Waluigi. I feel like the latter two are much more important to Mario canon, and Dr. Mario felt like fluff that nobody would miss, while I hate how Rosalina plays. However in a hypothetical sequel to this roster's Smash I wouldn't be entirely against her return.

Cut a lot of Pokémon. Pichu and Greninja, while characters I like to play, just don't feel like they add a lot to the game, and Greninja especially I feel like his popularity has faded super quickly. Considered keeping Pichu as an echo, but decided against it.

Overhauled the Fire Emblem roster. Cut Lucina and Robin, both with reservations (I love the characters and feel like they're popular enough to make it in Smash) and inclinations (Lucina was the worst addition in base 4 to me, and I think Robin's moveset is terrible). Made Roy a Marth echo (since that's what he feels like), and completely decloned Chrom. Hopefully having 4 unique movesets and one echo makes people shut up about Fire Emblem and swordfighters forever.

Young Link makes it back, but with a moveset completely based on masks. Toon Link got cut (sorry bud, I love ya, but two Link movesets is hella boring and it's clear they won't make Link BotW Link). In this alternate universe Ganondorf gets his tennis ball projectile.

Ike's default is muscular Ike since that's best Ike.

Cut the Pokémon Trainer's Squirtle and Ivysaur to my chagrin, but there are only so many Pokémon you can have before it's excessive.

I think that's it about veterans, now let's talk newcomers. You may notice they're organized by first appearance.

Toad/Captain Toad is one of the most obvious additions in Smash and really needs no explanation. Same with Waluigi. Geno gets in due to massive fan demand, as this is Smash Ultimate dammit. While it may seem hypocritical to exclude Rosalina due to not mattering much and adding Geno who objectively doesn't matter, it's my roster alright?

Also you may have noticed that I put Geno last, well that's because I kinda broke my own rule and included a third-party. But I went with 'no third-party franchises' and included Geno with the loophole that he's a Mario character.

Mach Rider I originally didn't plan to include as I was going to make Takamaru the retro for this game as he had the most support going into 2018, but then I had many a slot and not enough to fill them so he (she?) got in.

Takamaru is the retro. Not much to say. He's cool.

Medusa is an echo of Palutena. I needed an Echo and she's a cool character. Considered Hades who I like more but decided between Falcon, Black Shadow and Ganondorf another fighter like them would be excessive.

Ninten is an echo of Lucas with some moves taken from Mewtwo and I guess an original neutral B (PK Beam) and Final Smash. An echo between Chrom and Ken levels.

Mike Jones I ****ing forgot until the last minute, you can consider him the Wolf or Chrom of this game I guess. Was between cutting Robin and Young Link for him. It was going to be Young Link because I already had Skull Kid and 2 Majora's Mask reps seemed excessive, but I realized that 2 MM reps are less egregious than 2 FE Awakening reps so Robin went. Also considered cutting Geno to abide by my rules and Kamek because he genuinely felt the most expendable, but I took pity on Geno fans and the Yoshi franchise. Not much to say about Mike himself other than I consider him the counterpart to Takamaru and Lip. Also what the **** is that artwork.

Bandanna Dee is obvious and should have been in. Same with Dixie.

Kamek was mainly to give Yoshi a second rep. It's really an important franchise that doesn't get enough credit. After Kamek I don't think it should get a third rep though.

I like Lip. Lip got in because I like her. Also with Doc gone we need a puzzle game rep.

With all the Pokémon that got cut, I figured I should add one that's actually iconic and popular and important and that was Meowth. Feel free to swap him with Eevee, but I feel like Meowth would be more original.

Black Shadow is an echo of Ganondorf I feel. Should have Bull Charge as neutral B, and Falcon's FS, also be hella fast. Included because he's awesome, Japan loves him, more villains, and get F-Zero a second ****ing rep. While typing this I realized I totally forgot Goroh existed and shame on me, but with Takamaru and Lyn he might have been somewhat redundant and also I don't really have unique slots to spare.

Skull Kid gets in due to fan demand and also because Zelda needs one-offs because those are the best characters. Considered Ghirahim and Vaati as well but figured Sheik and Young Link would have the edge with fans due to seniority. With Midna it's the same but also adding that she rocks.

Ray is in. Personally my choice is either a redesign or Mk. III. As for the debate on whether he's Olimar size or Link size, I say a bit shorter than Link.

Saki is in because gunblade and coolness and then I get a new Sin & Punishment or at least a collection. Considered Isa as an echo but nah.

Isaac gets in with an actually decent model and earth attacks and brings Felix as an echo (I know I'm a ****ing loser). Felix is mainly a Dark Samus echo, with tons of different animations (mainly featuring saaaaand and his sweet mask.)

Andy gets in. Sami might be an echo in the future, but for now it's Andy. Real tactics like gimmicky moveset. Kinda like Duck Hunt. I like Duck Hunt.

Lyn gets in and nobody gets to complain because she has it coming for a long while. She has this wicked katana moveset and all of a sudden people love Fire Emblem and stop complaining about it forever. The End.

For a second Wario rep, it was between her and Mona, but in the end I think popularity wins out and it's Ashley. She doesn't get called Ashley and Red because that nomenclature is stupid, Red's just a weapon. We don't call Link 'Link & Master Sword'.

Krystal gets in and Star Fox gets a rep that's not a clone of Fox.

Chorus Kids fulfill the Gematsu prophecy. I'd also take Karate Joe here, but I've really taken a liking to the kids.

Alph actually gets to become an echo because Pikmin 3 is awesome and really changed things around. Olimar gets his Brawl Up-B back, while Alph gets Winged and Rock Pikmin in his moveset. As a sidenote the Koopalings are gone because I hate when alts are a different character. Link's palette swaps are all based on the Champion's Tunic because it's badass (the Tunic of the Wild can be one color).

Octolings are in, and based on Octo Expansion Octolings. They get a lot of new weapons so moveset might differ in a manner that stretches the definitions of what an echo is but still gets called an echo.

Spring Man and Ribbon Girl both get in because ARMS is great. Rex & Pyra also get in because this is literally their only shot and I'm not a monster. Elma stays out because I find her boring and Cross is the real protagonist.

Characters I also considered adding include a Style Savvy rep, King Hippo and I really can't remember others.

Before ending I want to look at series representation
Mario 8 uniques 1 echo
Zelda 7 uniques
Pokémon 6 uniques
Fire Emblem 4 uniques 1 echo
DK 4 uniques
Kirby 4 uniques
Star Fox 4 uniques
Metroid 3 uniques 1 echo
Kid Icarus 2 uniques 2 echos
Mother 2 uniques 1 echo
Yoshi 2 uniques
Wario 2 uniques
Animal Crossing 2 uniques
Xenoblade 2 uniques
F Zero 1 unique 1 echo
Pikmin 1 unique 1 echo
Splatoon 1 unique 1 echo
Golden Sun 1 unique 1 echo
ARMS 1 unique 1 echo

Now I think it could be improved. Pokémon having less than Zelda feels weird, so maybe swap Young Link out for Eevee. Fire Emblem being fourth feels strange, but also representative to its place in Nintendo's stable of franchises and the other franchises' lack of characters. Same with Metroid's low position, it just doesn't have characters. All in all, I think we could do a lot worse, and at least I feel like I fixed Pokémon and Fire Emblem oversaturation.

Conclusion... I don't think third-parties should be out of Smash. I got a nice, varied roster, and I don't feel like I exhausted all possibilitied either, but I think we could, with the right cuts and the right mindset, get a roster similar to this one in 2 or 3 games. It's just about balancing third parties with a hearty dose of first parties, both from new and represented franchises.

Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the direction Smash is going for, but it was a fun experiment regardless. Also wow this took like 3 hours I gotta go do something else with my life.
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

Smash Ace
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-long post-
I actually really like the shape you ended up with, weird shapes always have more personality and flair to them than rectangles. the lack of a grass type pokemon makes your roster a 0/10 though sorry
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
I actually really like the shape you ended up with, weird shapes always have more personality and flair to them than rectangles. the lack of a grass type pokemon makes your roster a 0/10 though sorry
I knew something had to be wrong. Ivysaur is really cool so maybe I should add him. Or just replace Meowth with Eevee and Eevee with Leafeon.

Also I realized I completely forgot about Ayumi Tachibana and Chibi Robo and feel like an idiot. Being Sakurai is hard.

Edit: I ****ing missed Starfy too. I’ll probably do a version 2 and add at least Starfy and Chibi to get some variety from all the NES dudes I put in.
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
860
NNID
PokefreakofBACON
Switch FC
SW-7469-1948-3865
Why is it that I'm in charge of the roster and yet there are rules that prohibit me from creating a roster if I were in charge?

Why are Geno and Paper Mario separate series from mainline Mario? They are subseries of a main series; they literally hail from games with "Mario" in the title.

Why does Waluigi rep WarioWare if he's never appeared in any of its games?

Why did you give Zelda 3 reps? It's literally two variations of the same person, so why not include characters with more potential?

Why does Kid Icarus have so many reps? I get you probably like it, but is it really so deserving if most people only know of the series through Smash?

Why did you give Metroid only 3 reps, or 2 if you think Samus and Zero Suit Samus, despite being separate characters, constitute one rep? Dark Samus is the major villain in Metroid Prime, and Sylux, though resembling Samus, has a very different arsenal. Plus, why does Star Fox get more representation? Metroid is vastly more popular.

Why make Ninten a third rep for the Mother series instead of a villain? No matter how you look at it, Ninten would be an echo (which you included him as) or semi clone of Ness at best, which would mean that there would be essentially three reps with very similar movesets for one series. Why not include Porky or Masked Man, who boast very different and unique options?

Why not include Rex and Pyra, or even Elma? Xenoblade is both relevant and popular, and both options have movesets that vary from Shulk's greatly. Further, why give Punch Out! and F-Zero more representation than Xenoblade? Xenoblade is exponentially more popular than both series, and giving two dead franchises an echo fighter seems almost entirely outmatched if you can give a relevant franchise a unique fighter.

In addition to the previous question, why do Punch Out! and F-Zero get echoes before Splatoon? Splatoon is massively popular in both the west and east, and is way more defining than both franchises. Plus, if the Octolings were to be echoes, they could show off weapons from Splatoon 2, and even then, most of the important weapons wouldn't be shown off.

Why does Bayonetta count as Sega? Nintendo has partial right to Bayo 2 and 3. and afaik don't need Sega's permission to add her if that's the case (hence why she reps Bayonetta 2, not the Bayonetta series; it's cheaper).
I guess you could answer all these questions with "because I'm in charge", but I'd like to know the reasoning behind your choices.
I didn't see your edit to this post until much later, my bad.

Yoshi's Island was originally "Super Mario World 2," until it became it's own thing. You could argue the Mario RPG games are different because they still have Mario in their titles, but I liked how the roster looked with these two seperate.

Waluigi is a WarioWare rep for a few reasons: He's an echo of Jimmy T in my roster, so he would have to be in the same series. Waluigi being in the same series as Mario while Wario isn't would be weird. He hasn't shown up in any WarioWare games, but his connection to Wario is enough, and I feel like he SHOULD start showing up in those games. (Plus my own personal theory that Jimmy T and Waluigi are the same person)

As much as I love the Zelda franchise, I couldn't bring myself to putting in one-off characters like Skull Kid or Mipha, as much as I want those two. It didn't feel right to me, I guess. I do want those characters in with the roster of the actual game, but I didn't include them in this roster just because... reasons, I guess.

I only gave Kid Icarus 2 reps that aren't already in Ultimate, one of which is an echo. Hades being the only unique I added to the series, because I would make him into somewhat of a semi-clone of Ganondorf (in smash 4, he wouldn't have a sword) with his special moves being changed to fit Hades better. In reality though? I kinda just wanted to. I like Uprising a lot and I hope they make another game soon. 3 uniques and 2 echos isn't really all that much compared to some other series in the actual game.

Metroid only got those reps mostly because I prefer the 2D metroid games a lot more. As far as recurring characters from pretty much all of the games, there's really not much else to add to it, either. I don't feel like Sylux really deserves a spot, personally. I considered adding Chozo, though.

Star Fox gets more representation than Metroid because Star Fox reps are a lot easier to add in, plain and simple. They all function off of the same base moveset, save for Krystal.

I included Ninten instead of Porky or Masked Man because him not being there is super weird to me. Why do we have the protagonists of every mother game except the first one?

I haven't played Xenoblade is the short answer. The long answer is seniority. F-Zero has been in the game since Smash 64, and deserves a second rep IMO. Punch-Out is one of Nintendo's oldest franchises. Xenoblade is more popular at the moment, sure, but I gave newer characters less attention in this roster. Call me an old loser if you want. It's the same with Splatoon. I love the game, but maybe let it simmer a bit before doing any more fighters.

Bayonetta counts as Sega because I thought she was owned by Sega and I might be dumb?? It's borderline enough, whatever.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
I didn't see your edit to this post until much later, my bad.

Yoshi's Island was originally "Super Mario World 2," until it became it's own thing. You could argue the Mario RPG games are different because they still have Mario in their titles, but I liked how the roster looked with these two seperate.

Waluigi is a WarioWare rep for a few reasons: He's an echo of Jimmy T in my roster, so he would have to be in the same series. Waluigi being in the same series as Mario while Wario isn't would be weird. He hasn't shown up in any WarioWare games, but his connection to Wario is enough, and I feel like he SHOULD start showing up in those games. (Plus my own personal theory that Jimmy T and Waluigi are the same person)

As much as I love the Zelda franchise, I couldn't bring myself to putting in one-off characters like Skull Kid or Mipha, as much as I want those two. It didn't feel right to me, I guess. I do want those characters in with the roster of the actual game, but I didn't include them in this roster just because... reasons, I guess.

I only gave Kid Icarus 2 reps that aren't already in Ultimate, one of which is an echo. Hades being the only unique I added to the series, because I would make him into somewhat of a semi-clone of Ganondorf (in smash 4, he wouldn't have a sword) with his special moves being changed to fit Hades better. In reality though? I kinda just wanted to. I like Uprising a lot and I hope they make another game soon. 3 uniques and 2 echos isn't really all that much compared to some other series in the actual game.

Metroid only got those reps mostly because I prefer the 2D metroid games a lot more. As far as recurring characters from pretty much all of the games, there's really not much else to add to it, either. I don't feel like Sylux really deserves a spot, personally. I considered adding Chozo, though.

Star Fox gets more representation than Metroid because Star Fox reps are a lot easier to add in, plain and simple. They all function off of the same base moveset, save for Krystal.

I included Ninten instead of Porky or Masked Man because him not being there is super weird to me. Why do we have the protagonists of every mother game except the first one?

I haven't played Xenoblade is the short answer. The long answer is seniority. F-Zero has been in the game since Smash 64, and deserves a second rep IMO. Punch-Out is one of Nintendo's oldest franchises. Xenoblade is more popular at the moment, sure, but I gave newer characters less attention in this roster. Call me an old loser if you want. It's the same with Splatoon. I love the game, but maybe let it simmer a bit before doing any more fighters.

Bayonetta counts as Sega because I thought she was owned by Sega and I might be dumb?? It's borderline enough, whatever.
You’re not wrong about Bayonetta, it’s fully owned by SEGA.
 
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