• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

What style of Marth should i play?

Pyriuh

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
16
For 3 years i have practiced a Mew2King Marth, chain grabs and frame perfect spacing with f smashes and such. Recently i notice that im kinda playing a style that is slowly dying off, as all marths do nowaday are f smash without even spacing and dash dancing, i was wondering if i should switch over to a marth with heavy fair and just aerial move combos, less grabbing, and unpredictable fsmashes like Mang0's marth? i have a lot of fun with a Mang0 styled Marth, but i feel its a waste to let those 3 years of Mew2King style Marth go away, even if it does give me better results, and i mean WAY BETTER results :/
 

JoJoe

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
16
Location
Los Angeles California
Recently i notice that im kinda playing a style that is slowly dying off, as all marths do nowaday are f smash without even spacing and dash dancing
Using chaingrabs and good spacing isn't a play style, that's what every Marth should be doing in the first place
 

Pyriuh

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
16
Using chaingrabs and good spacing isn't a play style, that's what every Marth should be doing in the first place
No other marth does it though, and everyone knows how to get out of it or di out of it nowadays, and im not saying i wouldnt do that im just saying ahould i play with less grabs and more airiels kinda like how mang0 plays. I doubt tou havent seen mang0's marth but if you havent you should see hax vs mang0 at pound 2016.
 

Stride

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
680
Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
Not to state the obvious, but you should just be doing whatever is most effective. "Playstyles" are a way of describing the overall nature of the preferences in the way one chooses which actions to preform, rather than actual "things" in themselves, and therefore trying to pursue a specific playstyle is glossing over the reason the playstyle exists in the first place.

Trying to imitate playstyles directly is detrimental. At a low level this is especially true because you really don't understand the reasoning behind the decisions that other players make. Using a lot of aerials isn't good; the way that Mango uses them is good. Grabbing a lot isn't good; the way Mew2King uses grabs is good.

unpredictable fsmashes like Mang0's marth?
What makes those F-smashes unpredictable? What makes them good in the situations that Mango is using them? I guarantee that Mango's decision-making process behind when to throw out a seemingly randy F-smash (and the way the rest of his actions complement that decision) is vastly better thought out than a superficially similar F-smash by a low/mid level player, and accordingly the results are better.

i have a lot of fun with a Mang0 styled Marth, but i feel its a waste to let those 3 years of Mew2King style Marth go away
It shouldn't go to waste at all. Take the parts of each that work towards making the best possible gameplan you can. Think about the goals and reasoning involved in the situations you encounter, and how the actions you see being used in them relate to that, rather than focusing on the actions themselves (and blindly imitating them). Look at the way different players will approach the same situation and consider what the different impacts of those approaches are, and why they've made the decisions they have. Think about what that might tell you about the possible differences in fundamental understanding/approach/conceptualisation to the situation or even to the game more generally.

Also, just because one player focuses on certain things and is good at them while being relatively less focused on and worse at others, it doesn't mean that you have to adopt their weaknesses when you copy their strengths.

No other marth does it though, and everyone knows how to get out of it or di out of it nowadays, and im not saying i wouldnt do that im just saying ahould i play with less grabs and more airiels kinda like how mang0 plays.
Nearly every mid-level or better Marth main does it, though of course they're not as consistent at it as Mew2King is. Even "creative" Marths like reaper or Mango do it and are competent at it, despite sometimes going for suboptimal things like up throw down air on FD instead. Note that even Mew2King doesn't chaingrab optimally, somtimes in really obvious/extreme ways like often going for up tilt techchases instead of pivot grabbing on slight DIs before up tilt starts tippering; he's just pretty well optimised and very consistent at what he does compared to other Marths.

People are better at getting out of it than they were. It's not a guaranteed 0 to death and hasn't been at any point (there's no overlap between the time when people were incompetent enough at DI to not be able to get out or survive and when people were competent enough at the chaingrab to be able to actually do it in the first place). It's still extremely good and worth doing. You can optimise it further than it already has been.

Recently i notice that im kinda playing a style that is slowly dying off, as all marths do nowaday are f smash without even spacing and dash dancing
That's outright wrong unless you're just talking about bad Marths, which have always existed and always will, and shouldn't inform you about the state of the meta.
 
Last edited:

Pyriuh

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
16
Not to state the obvious, but you should just be doing whatever is most effective. "Playstyles" are a way of describing the overall nature of the preferences in the way one chooses which actions to preform, rather than actual "things" in themselves, and therefore trying to pursue a specific playstyle is glossing over the reason the playstyle exists in the first place.

Trying to imitate playstyles directly is detrimental. At a low level this is especially true because you really don't understand the reasoning behind the decisions that other players make. Using a lot of aerials isn't good; the way that Mango uses them is good. Grabbing a lot isn't good; the way Mew2King uses grabs is good.


What makes those f-smashes unpredictable? What makes them good in the situations that Mango is using them? I guarantee that Mango's decision-making process behind when to throw out a seemingly randy f-smash (and the way the rest of his actions complement that decision) is vastly better thought out than a superficially similar f-smash by a low/mid level player, and accordingly the results are better.


It shouldn't go to waste at all. Take the parts of each that work towards making the best possible gameplan you can. Think about the goals and reasoning involved in the situations you encounter, and how the actions you see being used in them relate to that, rather than focusing on the actions themselves (and blindly imitating them). Look at the way different players will approach the same situation and consider what the different impacts of those approaches are, and why they've made the decisions they have. Think about what that might tell you about the possible differences in fundamental understanding/approach/conceptualisation to the situation or even to the game more generally.

Also, just because one player focuses on certain things and is good at them while being relatively less focused on and worse at others, it doesn't mean that you have to adopt their weaknesses when you copy their strengths.


Nearly every mid-level or better Marth main does it, though of course they're not as consistent at it as Mew2King is. Even "creative" Marths like reaper or Mango do it and are competent at it, despite sometimes going for suboptimal things like up throw down air on FD instead. Note that even Mew2King doesn't chaingrab optimally, somtimes in really obvious/extreme ways like often going for up tilt techchases instead of pivot grabbing on slight DIs before up tilt starts tippering; he's just pretty well optimised and very consistent at what he does compared to other Marths.

People are better at getting out of it than they were. It's not a guaranteed 0 to death and hasn't been at any point (there's no overlap between the time when people were incompetent enough at DI to not be able to get out or survive and when people were competent enough at the chaingrab to be able to actually do it in the first place). It's still extremely good and worth doing. You can optimise it further than it already has been.


That's outright wrong unless you're just talking about bad Marths, which have always existed and always will, and shouldn't inform you about the state of the meta.
I'm not sayibg that the character is dying off, im saying my way of being precise with everything is and relyong on grabs, and the "random fsmashes" had two meanings, nowadays low level marths get results from randomly throwing out an fsmash even if it isnt spaces for a tipper, and some times miss sometimes hit. If they hit they just go ahead and go for another, and they get licky sometimes and get a fsmash. What i was asking is should i incorporate fsmashes like mang0 does where its jot random, but should i use it even if it isnt apaced fot a tipper? The way i learned marth is always be precise always do things frame perfect and always use the best option, which ive never thought a un spaced fsmash was the best option. Sorry fpr any typos im on mobile.
 

Stride

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
680
Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
I'm not sayibg that the character is dying off, im saying my way of being precise with everything is and relyong on grabs, and the "random fsmashes" had two meanings, nowadays low level marths get results from randomly throwing out an fsmash even if it isnt spaces for a tipper, and some times miss sometimes hit. If they hit they just go ahead and go for another, and they get licky sometimes and get a fsmash. What i was asking is should i incorporate fsmashes like mang0 does where its jot random, but should i use it even if it isnt apaced fot a tipper? The way i learned marth is always be precise always do things frame perfect and always use the best option, which ive never thought a un spaced fsmash was the best option. Sorry fpr any typos im on mobile.
I didn't think you said the character was dying off. The style isn't dying off (as much as it can be considered a "style"). Low-level Marths getting results from F-smash spam or bad F-smashes doesn't mean anything; it only works against other low-level players, and good players aren't doing it.

You can use F-smash even if it's not a tipper, though of course you should always tipper it if it makes no difference otherwise since the tipper hitbox is identical to the non-tipper hitbox in every way expect for dealing more damage (thereby dealing more knockback). There are many disparate situations where it's useful to forward smash, so I can't explain it all to you here. The best way to learn is to watch videos of good players.

As far as using F-smash in neutral goes, the basic idea is that you should stick to using it in situations where the opponent's defensive options are limited and therefore the risk is reduced, or when the reward is particularly high (relative to other available options). That means things like when the opponent is dashing away, or jumping, or when the tipper would basically kill them. You condition the opponent to put themselves in those kind of situations so you can take advantage of it and skew the risk/reward ratio in your favour. That's the difference between "bad" F-smashes (or high-commitment high-reward moves in general) and "good" ones: beyond just the execution and the choice of situation to use them in, it's the way the player's other actions deliberately create scenarios where they can be used effectively.

When you have an opportunity for a forward smash, think about what else you could do in the situation instead of that and the merits of each option, so you can understand why a particular choice might be appropriate: if you hit a spacie with a non-tipper up air and they're at 100% near the edge then a non-tipper forward smash to hit them offstage is a good option (you can tipper in that situation but it's DI-dependent); if you up throw them at 40% centre stage then it isn't.

You should "always be precise always do things frame perfect and always use the best option" with every character; it's no more appropriate for Marth than it is for any other character. Hitting with the weaker hitbox of a move isn't necessarily "less precise", though with Marth's forward smash it may give that impression. Sometimes it's not possible to get a tipper, or doing so would would require other things to happen which would make the situation less favourable overall; for example, if you'd have to wait longer and thereby give the opponent the opportunity to escape, or if you'd have to send the opponent in the other direction.
 
Last edited:

FAAAALCOOONTIP

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
2
Location
Clearfield, Utah
If mang0 style marth works better, play it.

i'm a very aggressive marth, unpredictable fsmashes, lots of aeriel combos to get the opponent offstage, then aggressive ledge guarding
 

aqualad33

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Messages
17
Location
Nor Cal
Yeah, JUST relying on the grab game is bad now. That said, its still a major component of Marths game and you should still be leveraging your strength with it. What's changed is that you need more than just the grab game. You need to perfect his movement, and use of dtilt/spaced aerials in order to get those openings. What made M2K's marth so strong was his consistent 0-death combos and edge guarding. You still want to keep that aspect of your game but you need more ways to get there besides just grab.

In the words of a good friend of mine "all of your options get better when you have more of them"
 
Top Bottom