What Smash 4 means for you

[TreK]

Alright, I wanted to talk about something that I feel is important to be talked about : what to expect for the Smash community when Smash 4 releases.
I'm not talking about the quality of the game here, mind you. But you'll see what I'm talking about.

So here are the things I feel I have to prepare for :

1) Lots of new players
That's actually a good thing. But it comes with issues too. They are going to be very uninformed : the very fact that a player shows up at the release of the next game instead of preparing by picking up any of the previous games a couple months before the launch shows just how uninformed they are.
But this is not something I fear, as I've seen a handful of content creators beginning to work on extremely big projects with the goal to make Smash easier to get into.
I've got a couple ideas in mind that could help my region's community (mostly translating a **** ton of guides, blogs and posts and hosting Wifi tourneys like I used to do back in 2009-10), but I'll see in due time if I even opt to play Smash 4.

2) The age average will go down a couple years
These new players are also going to be very young, and probably as immature as I was back when I learned about competitive Smash. If I met my 14 years old self now, he'd probably make me go mad. They won't give a **** about the community's past or future, they won't share our jokes and culture. But I have to keep in mind that if I'm being hateful towards a new guy, I may be pushing away from the community the next Ken, Prog or Chibo. And we could use more Kens, Progs and Chibos... So I'll try to help them fit in.

3) Another community split
I don't want it to happen. But I know that it's going to happen anyway. And the thought of it annoys me because I can't think of a solution. The new game is most definitely not going to please every single smasher considering the wide variety of... Tastes that we have here.
I have no idea how to make sure it doesn't happen. Not even at the scale of my region.

4) The WiiU being a bad console for tourneys
Tournaments on a 3DS would be possible, I've had a couple multigaming events where I got to meet the local Pokémon community. But the WiiU doesn't have wired controllers, and that's going to be a problem. We have a couple options here, my favorite yet most idealistic one being to petition Madcatz/Razer and throw money at them so they build us USB pads that would work on a WiiU.

5) The game I play being ignored at the profit of the newer thing
This is how things usually go. Melee is kind of an exception when it comes to this. I doubt it'll annoy me, as my local Smash scene is almost nonexistent anyway. The lack of new content on Youtube/Twitch would be the thing I'd notice the most.


That's it for me. What about you ? What do you expect and are trying to prepare for ?

 

[DakotaBonez]

I'm expecting to see the community thrive like never before, all of us united. Like a big living room with chips and dip and we're all just chillin playin some smash.

 

[Starcutter]

I'm expecting to see the community thrive like never before, all of us united. Like a big living room with chips and dip and we're all just chillin playin some smash.

yeah, especially since the online is better.

 

[Orngeblu]

1) Lots of new players
That's actually a good thing. But it comes with issues too. They are going to be very uninformed : the very fact that a player shows up at the release of the next game instead of preparing by picking up any of the previous games a couple months before the launch shows just how uninformed they are.
But this is not something I fear, as I've seen a handful of content creators beginning to work on extremely big projects with the goal to make Smash easier to get into.
I've got a couple ideas in mind that could help my region's community (mostly translating a **** ton of guides, blogs and posts and hosting Wifi tourneys like I used to do back in 2009-10), but I'll see in due time if I even opt to play Smash 4.

I don't fear this either, but it would've been cooler if they've played the previous ones. To be honest, I haven't played the N64 version, and have only played Melee to Brawl.

2) The age average will go down a couple year

These new players are also going to be very young, and probably as immature as I was back when I learned about competitive Smash. If I met my 14 years old self now, he'd probably make me go mad. They won't give a **** about the community's past or future, they won't share our jokes and culture. But I have to keep in mind that if I'm being hateful towards a new guy, I may be pushing away from the community the next Ken, Prog or Chibo. And we could use more Kens, Progs and Chibos... So I'll try to help them fit in.

I'm guilty of this too, actually. I don't think it will be too bad online though, as you won't be able to message other players via text or through voice. (I believe this won't happen) Offline tournaments though...oh boy, I don't want to be there. (Only if what you said really does happen) I really do hope the community doesn't become THIS bad. It would practically be the end of Smash. But a majority of these players probably won't be going to offline tournaments. Heck, there might not even be much offline tournaments because the online mode will probably be much better in Smash 4.

3) Another community split

I don't want it to happen. But I know that it's going to happen anyway. And the thought of it annoys me because I can't think of a solution. The new game is most definitely not going to please every single smasher considering the wide variety of... Tastes that we have here.
I have no idea how to make sure it doesn't happen. Not even at the scale of my region.

Agreed. A lot of people want it back to Melee speed. Some players will compromise with a bit of both. Me? I don't really care except for a better online mode.

4) The WiiU being a bad console for tourneys

Tournaments on a 3DS would be possible, I've had a couple multigaming events where I got to meet the local Pokémon community. But the WiiU doesn't have wired controllers, and that's going to be a problem. We have a couple options here, my favorite yet most idealistic one being to petition Madcatz/Razer and throw money at them so they build us USB pads that would work on a WiiU.

Ugh...I do hope this turns out well.

That's it for me. What about you ? What do you expect and are trying to prepare for ?

The Smash apocalypse... (In other words, age average going down)

 

[Chiroz]

4) The WiiU being a bad console for tourneys
Tournaments on a 3DS would be possible, I've had a couple multigaming events where I got to meet the local Pokémon community. But the WiiU doesn't have wired controllers, and that's going to be a problem. We have a couple options here, my favorite yet most idealistic one being to petition Madcatz/Razer and throw money at them so they build us USB pads that would work on a WiiU.

I keep reading this and I just wonder if people just say this because they are sheep or is there an actual reason?

Back in the Gamecube Era, wireless controllers did not have enough frequency for anything to be playable, they lagged and it was horrible. Once the Wii came out, most wireless controllers had less than 0.1 sec lag between inputs which is less lag than playing on a high definition tv, even with the correct high definition cables. Most consoles today use wireless controllers and with every generation improvements are made, and this lag is not even noticeable (If there is still any). I am pretty sure with this new generation of consoles, the data transfer speed through the bluetooth wireless controllers must have gotten faster although I cannot assure you that, so take this last sentence as an assumption (I wouldn't be surprised if the data transfer for a single button input is sub 0.01 seconds by today's technology).

This means that wireless controller nowadays are completely lag free. Now the second thing that hindered tournaments was controller batteries dying out and because of this sometimes inputs would not be read or inputs were incorrectly sent to the console without being pressed, also the worse of all which was a controller just shutting down because of battery depletion. The Wii U's controller has a battery life of 80 hours, which means that a 4 hour tournament will mean nothing to the battery life and none of this will happen.

Even if none of this was true the controller has a USB cable (which sends power to the controller and maintains it at full charge for as long as it is connected) that can be attached to the controller while you play and this cable is just as long if not longer than wired controller cables.

So again I keep hearing that comment over and over again, I ask, is it just because people are still living in the past and just can not adapt to change or is there an actual problem I am ignorant to?

Edit: Sorry if I come off arrogant or if I offend you, it is not my intention to offend you and that post is not directed solely at you, it is directed at 90% of console players who still have this notion of wireless controllers. Again I might be completely wrong and I might be ignorant to something that makes wireless controllers are missing, I do accept and admit the fact that I am ignorant to many technical specs of consoles.

 

[TreK]

No offense taken, don't worry lol
The main two problems I have with wireless pads are input delay, which you've adressed already, and the whole 'home button' thing.
There were like <10 players who used wireless controllers at tournaments I've been to so far, yet every single time, there's at least one match interrupted because of either a troll, or a mistake. Imagine what would happen with 200 of them in the same room... ouch.
I've seen people fear the interferences, too. But I've never experienced them.

 

[Banjodorf]

What does it mean for me? Hopefully a chance to experience Smash with online on a system that can actually run online well. (I'm off the opinion the Wii U is a magical system, it just needs a chance to really rev its engines. Smash can be that moment!

I'm expecting great things from Miiverse support and the ability for SWF-goers to better connect. (Since there's no ****ing friend codes on the Wii U) and I just imagine this being a much more long-lasting online experience than I had with Brawl's. Granted, I had fun with online Brawl tournaments, but friendcodes dated it so fast.

 

[Johnknight1]

1. New players isn't a bad thing, it is a good thing. Without new players, the franchise won't get any more popular. New players of new smash games means new players of old smash games oftentimes.

2. Who cares=??? There will be a few more immature people, but most new smashers get how to behave like mature adults. Many people won't get some smash slang, stories, or whatnot, but that's why we should TELL THEM, SHOW THEM, AND LET THEM IN THE LOOP!!! It'd be OUR FAULTS if they felt like OUTSIDERS!!!

3. The Community won't split any more than the competitive hating GameFAQers who probably don't even play smash games and the SmashBoarders who actually play it. The anti-competitive community will always exist; the fanbases from each game will always be slightly off cue with one another. But you know what=??? People who live on the East Coast and West Coast are split. People who main Captain Falcon and Fox are split. Big deal. There's a little off-ness and unfamiliarity around. Deal with it like an adult, be polite, and treat everyone with respect.

4. This point is useless and is flat out wrong. The Wii U has USB cords and works with GameCube controllers and USB plug in (optional) Pro Controllers.

As for the 3DS (which wasn't in your point), I doubt lag will be much of an issue; and if it is, the community will find a way around it, just like we found a way around with the costume limit per character in Brawl (a new hack allows every character to have 10 costumes, Wario's 12 costumes excluded). Smashers are a resourceful bunch, especially with the hacking that the Wii-era of Smash has brought in.

5. Previous smash games' popularity tournament-wise may decline a bit initially with these 2 new smash games forthcoming, but the tournament attendance will rise. Every notice that Brawl brought in a new influx of Melee competitive players=??? Or that Melee tournament attendance has risen=??? Or that a few months after Brawl's release Melee tournaments were as strong-if not stronger than ever=??? Or that one smash game being more popular brings new light to EVERY SMASH BROS GAME because we often have our major tournaments have all of the smash bros games=???

Overall this thread provides a lot of negativity, much of which is based on fiction. Literally this thread isn't "What Smash Means to you" but the sequel to Dylan_Tnga's infamous thread "Brawl will/might Suck," minus a lot of logic and instead replaced by much emotion.

 

[Chiroz]

No offense taken, don't worry lol
The main two problems I have with wireless pads are input delay, which you've adressed already, and the whole 'home button' thing.
There were like <10 players who used wireless controllers at tournaments I've been to so far, yet every single time, there's at least one match interrupted because of either a troll, or a mistake. Imagine what would happen with 200 of them in the same room... ouch.
I've seen people fear the interferences, too. But I've never experienced them.

Hmmm, I guess the home button is just like the start button in that regard. Although Melee has a way to take away the ability to pause the game, right? (I am pretty sure Brawl does) So I guess maybe we should ask for a way to negate the home button too or IDK. Quite honestly I've never used a wireless controller for a tournament, but now that it is being forced into us, I don't fear it as much. Input delay and battery running out were my 2 biggest fears of wireless controllers, and both are already taken care of. In most tournaments I go, pressing start (or in this case home button) without an actual emergency is considered a lose of that match (or at the very least that stock).

As for what I actually fear from the views expressed in the OP.

Another community split
I don't want it to happen. But I know that it's going to happen anyway. And the thought of it annoys me because I can't think of a solution. The new game is most definitely not going to please every single smasher considering the wide variety of... Tastes that we have here.
I have no idea how to make sure it doesn't happen. Not even at the scale of my region.

This is the one I truly fear. I don't mind new players coming in, everyone has to start somewhere and I welcome each and all of the 10 year olds who can actually give me a good match and make me lose or sweat my win.

What I fear is the community becoming smaller because of this game. Part of me hopes that because this will be the first (and only) Smash with good internet, that, depending on the actual internet features implemented (if there's online ladder and tournaments) most people might actually drop Melee and Brawl because this one offers a new way to develop the competitive side of the game. Online play means a lot to a game's overall evolution and I am kind of hoping that if Smash 4 fails to live up to my expectations, at least the online will make up for it, not just for me, but for most people. (The bigger the community, the better)

 

[TreK]

1. and 2.

We agree on both those points, actually. Did I phrase it in a weird way ?

3. and 4.

WiiU doesn't have gamecube ports, idk what you're talking about. It does recognize some third party controllers on its USB ports, though.
As for the community split, I was more or less referring to the BvM drama we've had until the whole #oneunit thing began. GameFAQs is not a place I visit often, as I've got better video game oriented sites in my language '^^

5. and conclusion

Oh I'm fully aware of that. The community indeed grew, a bit. But you can't deny we have made mistakes last time around, and it has made quite a bunch of players run away from here. If anything, having made these mistakes made us grow and maybe we won't make them again thanks to it. If that's how you feel too, take this thread as a reminder of the bad things that usually happen when a game releases. And as a couple ideas in order to deal with them.

Hmmm, I guess the home button is just like the start button in that regard.

Well it's not exactly a start button for two reasons : you cannot turn it off in the in-game menu, and players who are not currently playing can also trigger it (I've had a couple matches interrupted by a spectator. It's rare, but it happens). All it needs to happen is a wiimote that is synchronized to the console, and a bad idea.

What I fear is the community becoming smaller because of this game. Part of me hopes that because this will be the first (and only) Smash with good internet, that, depending on the actual internet features implemented (if there's online ladder and tournaments) most people might actually drop Melee and Brawl because this one offers a new way to develop the competitive side of the game. Online play means a lot to a game's overall evolution and I am kind of hoping that if Smash 4 fails to live up to my expectations, at least the online will make up for it, not just for me, but for most people. (The bigger the community, the better)

Interesting pov, I know it has happened to another community (MTG tournament attendance slowed down a bit at the release of MWS, a freeware you could train on). Well, it's up to us to show them that tournaments are a nice place to be at, then :D

 

[Chiroz]

Well it's not exactly a start button for two reasons : you cannot turn it off in the in-game menu, and players who are not currently playing can also trigger it (I've had a couple matches interrupted by a spectator. It's rare, but it happens). All it needs to happen is a wiimote that is synchronized to the console, and a bad idea.

Yea, I can imagine bitter players or just people who think they are funny doing that and unsynchronizing controls before every match is a big hassle truthfully. I wonder what will happen. Maybe the game will allow you to turn off home button, although probably not.

 

[Johnknight1]

The home button won't be a long-term issue, whether because there's an off button for it in smash, there's a way to hack the console/game to prevent it from working, or we just (as a community) don't use (ban) the Pro Controller/Wii U Pad and stick with the GameCube controllers/other controllers without a home button.

We agree on both those points, actually. Did I phrase it in a weird way ?

You only list the negatives, the same with all your other points. Oh, and your thread title is totally misleading. It doesn't have to deal with what you're talking about now or in your original post at all.

If this had said "My concerts for Smash 4," then I totally wouldn't have bagged you, but rather, analyzed your statements in a more scientific manner.

WiiU doesn't have gamecube ports, idk what you're talking about. It does recognize some third party controllers on its USB ports, though.

We have GameCube controller ports/USB port wires for Dolphin Emulation previously, and recently 3rd party Wii U USB to GameCube controller wires have been appearing on the internet, and they are from legit sources.

As for the community split, I was more or less referring to the BvM drama we've had until the whole #oneunit thing began

This "drama" was moreso between casual Melee and Brawl players than actual competitive tournament goers, a few regions aside. The two competitive communities tend to respect one another, although the Melee community often makes fun of Brawl (the game), and doesn't like to watch Brawl matches (for obvious reasons).

When the Melee and Brawl competitive communities work together to get big tournaments (and sometimes small tournaments) we can land great venues, host great events, and have great livestreams/recordings with our shared resources. And yes, SmashBoards is a similarly shared resource.

Oh I'm fully aware of that. The community indeed grew, a bit. But you can't deny we have made mistakes last time around, and it has made quite a bunch of players run away from here. If anything, having made these mistakes made us grow and maybe we won't make them again thanks to it. If that's how you feel too, take this thread as a reminder of the bad things that usually happen when a game releases. And as a couple ideas in order to deal with them.

We made mistakes, and that's because we hadn't had a tournament scene before Melee, so we never experienced the process of a sequel coming in and literally becoming half of the community. That's a natural part of the community growth. I think our better organization will help, but overall, I think the community by and large at large scale tournaments did a fine job...

...aside from the things stemming from Brawl being a very slow and offensively limited game, and well, matches being pretty boring, and tournaments taking forever because of all that. But if we don't have those issues (or at least nowhere near the extent we had them with Brawl), we should be in the clear.