What Makes a Good Fighting Game?

[Tetiro]

Hey guys,

A long time ago, I tried developing a fighting game and I always felt it lacked the awesome factor of most fighters. So I left it be. But thanks to Shulk, it got me thinking about starting it up next year or two when I have some spare time. Why not now? I am swamped working on other video games. The life of a developer is demanding!

So I decided to use this time to ask the question which I always wanted to.

What makes a good fighting game? What would you expect in one? I could have asked the Game Dev community this but I would rather as Smash Bros fans. Tell me what makes a good game!

 

[Prism]

Hey guys,

A long time ago, I tried developing a fighting game and I always felt it lacked the awesome factor of most fighters. So I left it be. But thanks to Shulk, it got me thinking about starting it up next year or two when I have some spare time. Why not now? I am swamped working on other video games. The life of a developer is demanding!

So I decided to use this time to ask the question which I always wanted to.

What makes a good fighting game? What would you expect in one? I could have asked the Game Dev community this but I would rather as Smash Bros fans. Tell me what makes a good game!

As a game developer and a Smash Bros. fan, what makes a good fighting game in my opinion is a lot of options. Even though I'm a Project M player, I love how the Melee metagame is STILL evolving after all this time. It feels amazing to learn a new skill, combo, etc. and be like, wow, no one knows this, I can use this at the next event.

 

[Tetiro]

So plenty of moves helps. Interesting

Anything else?

 

[SomewhatMystia]

I personally like something that's relatively simple to pick up, but has a high enough skill ceiling to be competitively viable.

Also, solid art style is always a plus.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Balance is also important. It's impossible (or nearly so) to make every character on par with one another, but a good system where having all characters with strong and weak points against one another is a good thing to aim for.

SomewhatMystia was right about simplicity. While yes, you can make the game as needlessly complicated as BlazBlue, you can also go for accessibility by making the gameplay relatively elementary, yet contain enough competitive depth to be a viable fighter. Mortal Kombat 1, 2, 3 and 9 are perfect examples of this.

 

[Booster]

A huge character roster and easy to understand controls is what I need. Street Fighter 4 series however doesn't have the easy to understand controls. It's the worst/most overrated fighting game I've ever played and I played Tekken 1 which looks like a polygonal mess and has messy controls (Even in the Arcade)

 

[Tetiro]

I have noted all of this down! Keep it coming

 

[arcticfox8]

You need a good balance of simplicity and complexity
Something that's easy to grasp at face value, but gets deeper with mindgames and advanced techniques
Techniques also need to feel like they belong. For example, don't put a combo breaker system in the game just to have it, you need to balance every aspect of the game's system to complement it.

Most people prefer a faster paced game. This doesn't just mean the characters move fast, but many factors play into this concept. How combos link together, how much damage they do relative to the health bar, various movement options like double jumps and airdashes, etc.

You could go with a huge roster, but smaller rosters are far easier to balance
12 at the least, 25 at most is what I'd shoot for.
And you need to make sure each character's playstyle feels unique if you go for the smaller size, but if you go for a larger roster I'd suggest a few clones as they're not only easier to make but they make it easier for players to branch out into the roster. A good clone still feels distinct to it's base character, though.


Hope this helped.

 

[Tetiro]

I was going to aim for the starting roster of 12. I want to be realistic with my scope. 12 characters and 12 stages. Easy to manage

The plan was to make 12 interesting characters and stages. Then I could focus on adding new modes like Capture the Flag or Hot Tomato

 

[Zankoku]

I don't think BlazBlue is needlessly complicated, haha.

Mostly just figure out what kind of gameplay you want, and what mechanics will be necessary to create that gameplay. Options are good, but what's important is avoiding an overload of superfluous ones - for example, if someone can do 30 things at any given moment and only 3 of them are ever useful, then he actually has 3 options and you added in a lot of fluff.

When creating characters, the aim should be finding different approaches to winning the game, what traits would facilitate that approach, and what traits would make it more difficult or work as a deterrent to attempting to win another way with the same character. In other words, diversity in playstyle, rather than simply diversity in aesthetics or movesets.

 

[SOLAR]

What makes a good fighting game, you ask? How about one where you aren't comboed against the edge of the screen! Another feature I like, is increased mobility options.

 

[SomewhatMystia]

I was going to aim for the starting roster of 12. I want to be realistic with my scope. 12 characters and 12 stages. Easy to manage

The plan was to make 12 interesting characters and stages. Then I could focus on adding new modes like Capture the Flag or Hot Tomato

How the devil would CTF work in a fighter?

 

[Sahfarry]

I, by no means know anything about game design or anything about the fgc, but I guess opinions from people like me are go. Here are my thoughts on the ideal fighting game:

1. Good, unique characters. I only really ever see this element used correctly in games like Mortal Kombat and Smash Bros. The characters need to have some sort of personality (or in the case of Smash, history) and have a moveset and playstyle that reflects that in some sort of way. Not sure how to explain it, but let's just say that characters should have (special) moves that if you saw another character doing it, you could still tell that it was THEIR move. These characters have to represent themselves in their moves. Like Sub-Zero (obviously) uses ice in his arsenal. To compare to other games, like Street Fighter, a lot of moves are shared with other chars or others possess different variations of one move. While it's not terrible, it just keeps the chars from being as unique as they could. Unique character designs and playstyles are way more important than the shear amount of characters. Smash 64 is a testament to this.
2. Balance. This is pretty obvious. Nobody should be way more powerful than anyone else. This is a pretty obvious choice. Really, all I gotta say is that you should test this out a lot before the game is actually out so that you can perfect the balance before and don't have to release patches that may change tier lists a lot while the game is out.
3. Options and many gamemodes keep casuals entertained. Have items or status ailments in one gamemode like in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 for WiiU where you have mushrooms everywhere, or Mortal Kombat 9's mode where random status ailments are applied to you. If it's going to be a fighting game similar to Smash, it's a great idea to make options to turn off items and stage hazards, much like Final D mode. PLease don't remove all platforms tho.
4. An "easy to get into, but hard to master" approach is the best.
5. Make characters upsides and downsides very noticeable. If a character should be slow, make him slow (but give him some more advanced mobility options so that he's not THAT bad), and if he's supposed to be a heavy character with hard hits, really make it seem like he's hitting hard. The health bar going down is not enough. Add some pauses and have the hard hits be reflected in your opponent's animations.
6. This isn't really a rule, but please don't go for stereotypical fighting game characters. I swear, every big fighting game has a Bruce Lee clone, native american man, killer robot and a "dead" guy.

 

[Tetiro]

How the devil would CTF work in a fighter?

I have a few ideas for CTF...

 

[Sykkamorre]

Not a dev or anything, but I've played fighters since I was a wee nipper.

Using existing games as examples:

-Soul Calibur's simple system is why it's still going. "attack, defend, counterhit and grab" pretty much sums the whole games mechanics up in my opinion, the characters playstyles are clear (mostly) an you don't need street fighter-esque button combination skills to play successfully.

-Tekken's unique character movesets. (apart from generic Bruce lee/animal/robot Yada yada yada) The martial art that each character supposedly uses is well researched and implemented... if not a bit over the top. Baek's TKD, Lee's assassination techs, Dragunov's KGB military-esque style with takedowns and crippling attacks, they all give the individual chars more life.

-Street fighter's pacing. With tight requirements for inputs and precise timing needed to pull off combos, street fighter matches are pretty intense from start to finish. Whether it's perfectly zoning a zangief with a close range char, or playing mixup games on wakeup with a char like adon, the knowlage that one ****up could cost you the match just serves to spur you on.

-MvC's...well everything. Depth of assists and combos is ridiculous, ground and wallbounces, teams of three with multiple assist choices... it might e too complicated with some characters for some people but there is a playstyle for everyone in there somewhere.

-aaaand Smash Bros. The simplicity to pick up and the difficulty to master. I'm no going to bother elaborating about this one xD

(My opinions at least, so take them for what it's worth to you)

 

[Tetiro]

Sykka, that was very useful! Thanks for the post! :D

 

[Sykkamorre]

Sykka, that was very useful! Thanks for the post! :D

You're welcome!

 

[Tetiro]

You know, I am really looking at making the fighter again

 

[TryHardOliver]

A variety of memorable fighters to choose from. Tons of things to do. And just being fun. Good luck

 

[LIQUID12A]

Accessibility to competitive and casual.

Balance.

Continued support.

Diverse character selection that covers all possible play style paradigms.

Wide stage selection.

Faithfulness to source material to franchises represented(coughlucinacough)

Fun factor

The small things like customization, replays, etc.

 

[Tetiro]

Accessibility to competitive and casual.
Balance.
Continued support.
Diverse character selection that covers all possible play style paradigms.
Wide stage selection.
Faithfulness to source material to franchises represented(coughlucinacough)
Fun factor
The small things like customization, replays, etc.

Balance & Support: Was intended!
Diverse Characters & Faithfulness: I would be prioritizing quality over quantity!
Wide stage selection: Confirmed
Fun factor: I hope I can achieve that with all my games!!
Small things: Baby steps first


You know, my main problem would be finding voluntary sprite artists. Does anyone know of a sprite artist who sprites high quality for free?

 

[Sykkamorre]

Why not try asking around in the art section etc? I'm sure if your project is cool, at least someone will help out.

 

[TryHardOliver]

Why not try asking around in the art section etc? I'm sure if your project is cool, at least someone will help out.

Who are you? lol

 

[Sykkamorre]

Who are you? lol

A guy who used to be around a looong time ago.

 

[TryHardOliver]

A guy who used to be around a looong time ago.

I was just kidding man lol

 

[Sykkamorre]

I was just kidding man lol

Oic! My internet joke sensor is still a bit rusty it seems xD

 

[Tetiro]

My internet joke sensor broke years ago

 

[Twewy]

Try to keep a smooth, stable frame-rate. 60 frames per second is ideal for fighting games.

 

[0RLY]

Defensive options. Almost every game puts a ton of focus into neutral game options and offensive options that they forget about defense. Smash has that glorious DI, various dodges, and shield angling/shrinkage. All traditional fighters have is high block and low block. That's not enough for me. Some games have combo escapes like Blazblue. MvC has team aerial counter. All of that is nice and all, but nothing compares to smash's defense system.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Defensive options. Almost every game puts a ton of focus into neutral game options and offensive options that they forget about defense. Smash has that glorious DI, various dodges, and shield angling/shrinkage. All traditional fighters have is high block and low block. That's not enough for me. Some games have combo escapes like Blazblue. MvC has team aerial counter. All of that is nice and all, but nothing compares to smash's defense system.

Souls calibur's guard impact was a nice touch, being able to force character to wherever you want them to be is always good in a fighter.

And to the OP, what kind of fighter is this you're thinkin' of creating?

 

[arcticfox8]

Parries are cool

 

[Tetiro]

I will try to add as much parry/dodge options as I can

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

For me, i feel like to characteristics outside of the core mechanics of a fighting game draw me into it.
For example Skullgirls is my favorite fighting game due to the characters, story, and art style. Luckily i enjoy the core mechanics of SG as well. Im also a fan of NRS games (Injustice Mortal Kombat) for the same reasons as SG, however i have alot of issues with injustice. (interactables, long stages, awkward footsies)

 

[Tetiro]

For me, i feel like to characteristics outside of the core mechanics of a fighting game draw me into it.
For example Skullgirls is my favorite fighting game due to the characters, story, and art style. Luckily i enjoy the core mechanics of SG as well. Im also a fan of NRS games (Injustice Mortal Kombat) for the same reasons as SG, however i have alot of issues with injustice. (interactables, long stages, awkward footsies)

Interesting, I will be looking into it!

As for the first game, I decided to try something experimental first as a testing ground for a Smash Fighter. I decided to make a mash-up of genres. Welcome, to Dance Fight!

 

[graveLotus]

Easy to pick up and lots of movement options are what makes me love smash over any fighting game.

 

[SomewhatMystia]

Interesting, I will be looking into it!

As for the first game, I decided to try something experimental first as a testing ground for a Smash Fighter. I decided to make a mash-up of genres. Welcome, to Dance Fight!

With a name like that, I'm super looking forward to how crazy this thing'll be.

 

[Tetiro]

With a name like that, I'm super looking forward to how crazy this thing'll be.

I hope it will be very crazy! Fighting merged with Dancing. Right now I am programming the tempo

 

[SomewhatMystia]

I wish you the best of luck and hope you keep us updated on it!

 

[Tetiro]

Actually, I will be needing feedback in the next few days on the tempo if I can ask for help?

 

[Tetiro]

Good news, progress is going well. Still looks basic but I want to refine the tempo